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One item of hand luggage restriction to be outlawed by EU.


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And while we are at it, get pregnant women to pay double, triple, quadruple fare etc[Www].

I think that the cheapest fare I have ever had was about £20 for a single fare + airport taxes+ luggage and very glad to have it I was.

 

When I used to have to fly with the major airlines and meals were provided, I always used to say that on any flight less than three hours, that they shouldn't be feeding us and reduce fares. The budget airlines have been good for us.  I have only flown with Jet2, EJ and Baby BMI in my to and from France trips.

 

 

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[quote user="andyh4"]

[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]Why on earth should those NOT wanting to take hold luggage subsidise those who DO?  Chiefluvvie[/quote]

 

What a Eutopian world you live in CV.  Unfortunately the whole model of Locos - and many other airlines - is built on some customers subsidising others.

 

Or do you really think they can offer 9€99c tickets with no taxes to pay without the last minute businessman paying 250+€ for the same trip and subsidising the give away ticket.  Same for Business and First class subsidising the three/four in a rows.

 

While I don't doubt your credentials and knowledge of the industry, I think it is about time you climbed out of the pointy end of the cigar tube and joined the great unwashed back in stowage.  You may well be right that operationally the airline makes no attempt to make money out of the one piece of handbaggage, but when you have seen (as I have) a passenger sent to the desk to book in a bag because it was 100gm over the limit as handbaggage, and then be charged something like 40pounds, it certainly seems like a money making exercise from the side of those who pay your salary.

 

Come to the back and smell the coffee - oh that'll be 2€50 for the smell.

[/quote]

Wow - a somewhat 'extreme' but predicatble reaction from you andy pandy!
Of course the high end tickets subsidise the economy ones - anyone who thought differently would indeed be on another planet. In fact, where I work, the entire European network is supported by just a few of the highly profitable long haul routes - i.e. the European network runs at a loss and has done for years - mainly propped up by Club / First Class London - East Coast USA routes.

The 9,99€ or even FREE tickets offered by most locos are purely to get bums on seats in the hope of some incremental and/or future revenue - nothing new there either - it's called a loss leader - you may have heard of them? There has to be a WIIFM (What's in it for Me?) for both the airline and passenger.

I fly with both Ryanair and Easyjet (and many, many others) whilst both positioning and commuting and frankly have nothing but praise for their efficiency and products - they do exactly what it says on the tin. If you're interested (although I suspect not!) I also flew as cabin crew for a couple of years before starting my pilot training and know only too well what it's like to be on Bar4 (trolley / cart) at the back of a 747. I only served delicious coffee and it was always free!

 
As for the £40 charge on 100g excess baggage - there are plonkers working everywhere........


I'm well aware who pays my salary and I always endeavor to take care of them as best I can - To Fly To Serve - sewn into my uniform andy - what's in yours?

Chiefluvvie

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[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]I only served delicious coffee and it was always free!

 [/quote]

Nothing that's served on board is "free". It's factored into what we pay in fares, surely. Just because we're not forced to pay for it when the trolley comes round doesn't mean we haven't paid for it at some juncture. The only difference is that we don't know how much we've paid for it if it's included in the ticket price.

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[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]

Wow - a somewhat 'extreme' but predicatble reaction from you andy pandy!
Of course the high end tickets subsidise the economy ones - anyone who thought differently would indeed be on another planet. In fact, where I work, the entire European network is supported by just a few of the highly profitable long haul routes - i.e. the European network runs at a loss and has done for years - mainly propped up by Club / First Class London - East Coast USA routes.

The 9,99€ or even FREE tickets offered by most locos are purely to get bums on seats in the hope of some incremental and/or future revenue - nothing new there either - it's called a loss leader - you may have heard of them? There has to be a WIIFM (What's in it for Me?) for both the airline and passenger.  [/quote]

 

So I think we both agree that cross subsidies are endemic in the airline industry so any comment by you or anyone else about the lack of fairness or otherwise is a total waste of time.  Every business has its own business model.  Only they will know if their model works for them or not.
There are probably a maximum of 3 people who will really know whether charging separately for any servcie is a good idea or not - the COE, the CFE and the market analyst. 

 

[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]

I fly with both Ryanair and Easyjet (and many, many others) whilst both positioning and commuting and frankly have nothing but praise for their efficiency and products - they do exactly what it says on the tin. If you're interested (although I suspect not!) I also flew as cabin crew for a couple of years before starting my pilot training and know only too well what it's like to be on Bar4 (trolley / cart) at the back of a 747. I only served delicious coffee and it was always free!

[/quote]

 

I also fly with many airlines and I have no particular quarrel with service standards of the two you mention.  In fact the worst case of the "rules" that I have personally suffered was with a flag carrier who have a 23kg baggage allowance.  Due to my regular use of this line my allowance is doubled.  Now you might think that this means that I could take a bag with up to 46kg in it (If I could lift it).  Not so.  I can take 2 bags with up to23kg each.  So when I turn up with a bag with 26kg, I am told I can either quickly buy a second bag and redistribute the quantity or pay a very hefty excess baggage charge.  Up to a point all of this sounds very reasonable and you can think about the poor baggage handlers having to lift such bags - until of course you realise that on a different route I would have been allowed a bag up to 32kg - doubled up in my case to 2 bags of 32kg each.  Even the clerk admitted it was just a rule and had no sense or relevance.

 

But these are the rules and we have to stick to them - or pay the consequence.  There is no logic for the customer.  There may be some logic in the business model.

 

[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]


As for the £40 charge on 100g excess baggage - there are plonkers working everywhere........  [/quote]

 

No joy for the victim though is it?  And if as someone has suggested there are rewards for such action well..........

In the end it just brings discredit on the airline - which overall may not be deserved.

 

[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]


I'm well aware who pays my salary and I always endeavor to take care of them as best I can - To Fly To Serve - sewn into my uniform andy - what's in yours?

Chiefluvvie

[/quote]

 

What's in mine?

 

Marks & Spencer - yes I know, sad - but their price quality balance is still hard to beat.

If it is any joy I shall be endeavouring to reduce the profits of your company later this month - cheaper than Easyjet once the hold bag had been added on and the benefit of a confirmed connection which EJ will not give.   The benfits of cross subsidies.

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[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]Approx 0.7p a cup - if that helps put your mind at rest Betty love.

Best to break these things down so we all know where we stand eh? Scary world you live in.....

Chiefluvvie[/quote]

Thanks luvvie. Yes, I'm so scared I rarely leave the house. The fear..the uncertainty... It's hard to live with. Still, I get by. It helps to know that the cheery voice I hear welcoming me on board from the cockpit belongs to a caring individual with a genuine regard for their fellow man and his point of view.

I can see now, though, why the coffee appears to be one of the few things that IS still served on board many of your flights.[:D] Why, on many of the shorter hops, it almost constitutes an inflight meal, along with the four pretzels.

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Come on Betty lets not be naive.....and do try and steer away from personal attacks - speaks volumes.

On BA coffee is costed in to the price of the ticket / service just like everything else - to imply you need to understand how much it costs is ridiculous. It's costed in along with fuel, aircon, tyres, seat fabric, carpets, curtains, galley equipment, rubbish crushers, food etc etc...and yes, crew and ground staff salaries. Let's get real shall we.....no different to any other business.

The customer will decide where they place their business based on value for money / convenience and a host of other factors - not simply the price of hold luggage or coffee!

For what it's worth - I'm not sure many people ever booked a short haul flight for the culinary experience ! Nice pretzels though!

Chiefluvvie

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CV, if you are a professional pilot, you probably recognise me from PPRUNE! Anyway, you are undoubtedly aware that Ryanair flight deck crew are hardly the happiest bunnies in the world and what happened with flight safety in the USA for a time when the low cost model was pushed too far. The low cost airline model in Europe is constantly evolving and with increasing fuel costs the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet are no longer focussing on growing market share, but profitability and shareholder dividends, with fares being steadily increased accordingly. Hence the phase out by Easyjet and Ryanair of free seating, as they look to attract higher fare paying and business passengers to boost profitability.
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[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]Come on Betty lets not be naive.....and do try and steer away from personal attacks - speaks volumes.

On BA coffee is costed in to the price of the ticket / service just like everything else - to imply you need to understand how much it costs is ridiculous. It's costed in along with fuel, aircon, tyres, seat fabric, carpets, curtains, galley equipment, rubbish crushers, food etc etc...and yes, crew and ground staff salaries. Let's get real shall we.....no different to any other business.

The customer will decide where they place their business based on value for money / convenience and a host of other factors - not simply the price of hold luggage or coffee!

For what it's worth - I'm not sure many people ever booked a short haul flight for the culinary experience ! Nice pretzels though!

Chiefluvvie[/quote]

Quite. It's not about "getting real", it's simply about the fact that we, the bums on seats, know that there ain't no such thing as a free pretzel. Whether it's Mr O'Really, Stavros Flatley or David Walliams that's serving it to us. I'm not even stupid enough to believe that all my "free" flights and upgrades courtesy of having amassed enough bloody air miles to fly the family to Jupiter were actually "free". They were to me, thank ***, because it wasn't me who bought the tickets that amassed them, but they were simply payback (partial, small payback) for having paid through the nose to fly longhaul on flexible tickets midweek at full whack instead of buying a bargain-bucket no-refund-no-exchange ticket. The actual "cost" to the airline was probably about the same in real value terms as a single Tesco clubcard point is worth in real money.

I bow to your superior knowledge about what the personal attacks say.[:D]

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For those reliant on low cost airlines to a particular destination, it is important to realise that the low fare strategy of the low cost airlines is primarily to build market share and establish new routes and they are fully aware that it is not a sustainable business model long term. Therefore, as we are seeing already fares will keep rising as profitability and shareholder dividends take priority, not to forget of course escalating government taxes on airfares..
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After their difficulties with the French authorities over trying to set up a French hub in Marseilles, which was subsequently abandoned to avoid French legal action over tax and cotisastion claims against the airlines non French crews operating out of Marseilles , I have a sneaking suspicion that M O'L/Ryanair have France at the top of the list of countries they least like dealing with! Since then Ryanair have been contracting their French routes and I am sure will continue to do so if their aircraft can be operated more profitably elsewhere. 
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[quote user="Sprogster"]

Since then Ryanair have been contracting their French routes and I am sure will continue to do so if their aircraft can be operated more profitably elsewhere.

 [/quote]

Nothing to do with the spat, just sound business sense - and that's one of the things that Michael O'Ryanair has in spades.

John

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Ryanair have recently said they are now focussing more on developing routes to and from main city airports, hence their planned expansion at Gatwick, reversing their previous focus on more provincial airports. By doing this they are adopting to an extent the Easyjet model and I would have thought as a result some of the more rural French destinations could be under threat, which would be a shame as I cannot see other airlines would be lining up to take their place other than on a limited seasonal basis. Flybe were a possible contender but they seem to be contracting under heavy current losses. Indeed if fuel prices continue to escalate, then low cost air travel as we have enjoyed in recent years could be consigned to the history books.
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[quote user="Sprogster"]CV, if you are a professional pilot, you probably recognise me from PPRUNE! Anyway, you are undoubtedly aware that Ryanair flight deck crew are hardly the happiest bunnies in the world and what happened with flight safety in the USA for a time when the low cost model was pushed too far. The low cost airline model in Europe is constantly evolving and with increasing fuel costs the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet are no longer focussing on growing market share, but profitability and shareholder dividends, with fares being steadily increased accordingly. Hence the phase out by Easyjet and Ryanair of free seating, as they look to attract higher fare paying and business passengers to boost profitability.[/quote]

Hi Sprogster - nope I've never come across you on the Nigel's Network but I will look out for you (!) - what do / did you fly ? Hey - when WERE Ryanair FC happy?

Chiefluvvie

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I love using Ryan air especially now that you can book the emergency exit seats.

 

As we have a car in France we have a choice of driving if prices are high.

 

I personally feel that the 10 kg hand luggage limit is far too high and often abused. I have seen passengers emptying their bag and dressing up as Michelin man to avoid paying, as well as frail passengers trying to lift and remove hand luggage over the heads of others.

 

Far better comfort and safety wise to reduce to a single item, three or four kg maximum.

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That should prove very interesting when flying with Easyjet. Despite there being a good number of empty seats on the plane, 30 cabin bags weren't allowed in the cabin as staff on the gate said there was no more space - these were the last 30 to arrive at final check-in; my OH was one of them. If other pieces of hand luggage end up being allowed, there'll be a lot more cabin baggage ending up in the hold.

If we travel with Easyjet again (this was our first experience with them), we'll make sure we get to final check-in early, and also ensure we have a bright belt, ribbon etc to mark it out; as it was meant to be cabin baggage, it was just a small, plain, black suitcase - hard to tell it apart from many others.

We fly regularly with Ryanair, and haven't come across this problem with them. Others might know otherwise, of course.

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