Jump to content

Renters who aren't paying...can I just make them leave?


Fiona
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help me...I have renters who haven't paid rent for nearly 5 months now! They say they are not paying because the electricity is dangerous.  In my opinion these are two different issues - it is my responsibility to make sure the electrics are safe...but they equally must pay rent (Am I right?)  Anyway - now I just want them to leave and I am going to sell my property as living so far away (In South Africa), it is proving too hard to manage. Can anyone tell me:

1. Legally - are they allowed to just stop paying rent when they are not happy with something?

2. As they haven't paid rent for so long - can I just tell them to leave in 2 weeks? What rights do I have to get them out? 

3. Do I have any recourse to get the money they owe me in arrears back?

It is sad that it is ending like this as they have lived in my house for 4 years! Because of this,  I trusted them so much that we no longer have a valid lease (Stupid I know!) - would this affect my legal standing to tell them to go?

Thanks for any help that anyone can give

Regards

Fiona

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It might help for you to "appoint " an estate/rental  agency to act on your behalf not only in getting the electrics fixed and made legal thus removing the reason for the excuse to not pay ....but also in setting things set up properly again  to get the collection of the rents back on track. and chase arrears   At the moment you are not in receipt of any monies from the rental ...and  from the agents point of view it  would be  in his interest to get the matter sorted out quickly as his collection  fees will be from the income he gets for you when this is  back on track....It seems as you are so far away from the scene somone with authority "on the doorstep " is what you need....The agent will then when the time comes to sell  help to find another rental property for your tennant  clearing the property for the sale if its going to be on his books ..These guys are on the spot have the experience of dealing with late and none payers  serving notices etc ...Your tennant having to come face to face with a person  acting for you and asking for money from them may be just what is required for you now . I think your tennants have taken advantage of the fact you are so far away and are hoping you have forgotten about them....you need to get this back on line legally as soon as possible. good luck and please let us know how you get on with it ...I think you cant act until after March re evictions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are going through the same situation as you are. We have an appointment with the bailiffs tomorrow. essentially you can not do anything until the rent is two months in arrears. During the winter period they can not be evicted, winter runs from the 1st November to the 15th of march. Anyway it will take the baliff about 3 months to prepare the papers and another 3 to 6 months to get a court appointment. After that they may petition the courts to be given another 6 months to sort themselves out. If children are involved then the courts generally grant the extension. By the time the courts grant the expulsion order the baliff will be reluctant to act if children are involved and will ask the local prefect to countersign the order, this is extremely difficult to obtain. By the time all of this happens then winter may well have come around again.

 

The costs involved are as follows.

 

Baliff to get each monthly cheque €100. In our case a waste of time as the tenants have no money or assets.

Eviction costs, in the range of €1,500 to €2,500.

 

In our case we employed an estate agent to find the tennant and verify their financial status, they were negligent, but to go after them is a complete waste of money.

 

In addition since our tennants have no assets or funds, they have no  where to go, other than public housing. It is very difficult for us to get the tennants out as all of the laws are clearly on their side, and it unlikely that they will leave a new house with 4 bedrooms, two bathrooms, fitted kitchen etc for a public house in a poor area. In addition we have to pay for their bin charges and since we can not recover the tax habitation from them it would appear that we could end up paying that as well. The second year of the 3 year lease is just starting and since they have no funds to pay the insurance cover, we also have to pay for this in respect of public liability and other related matters.

 

The only way we feel we will be able to get them out is to mount a campaigne of annoyance, which will commence on wednesday. We will be outside our house with pickets and be telephoning the local tv station and newspaper. We will also be knocking on the door several times a week at odd hours, 6.00am we beleive is the earliest time and if we happen to meet them collecting the children at the local school or at the supermarket we will politely request our rent. !!!! In addition we beleive the husband is working on the black, the digital camera will be used extensively.

 

The above together with the legal approach hopefully will resolve the matter in about 18 months.

 

Hopefully your situation is not as bleak as our situation. Feel free to email us and we can exchange telephone numbers and perhaps talk

through the matters.

 

ams

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the matter of not having a legal lease. I assume that you entered into a standard 3 year lease. normally if you want them to leave at the end of the 3 year term then you have to give them 6 months notice. if you do not the lease then continues, therefore in my opinion your lease continues and you have a legal lease in place. if it is a bailffe lease then you can go straight to the bailiffe and commence procedures for eviction.

 

If what they are saying about the state of the electricity in the house is true, i feel you face an up hill strugle.

 

ams

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We will be outside our house with pickets and be telephoning the local tv station and newspaper

I will be watching the TV.

I look forward to seeing the report about heartless British landlord illegally harassing decent French folk during the season of goodwill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="ams"]

The only way we feel we will be able to get them out is to mount a campaigne of annoyance, which will commence on wednesday. We will be outside our house with pickets and be telephoning the local tv station and newspaper. We will also be knocking on the door several times a week at odd hours, 6.00am we beleive is the earliest time and if we happen to meet them collecting the children at the local school or at the supermarket we will politely request our rent. !!!! In addition we beleive the husband is working on the black, the digital camera will be used extensively.

 

The above together with the legal approach hopefully will resolve the matter in about 18 months.

[/quote]

I'm not sure that publishing your plan of action on the web before you start your campaigne of annoyance is a bright idea. I,m sure that those skilled in law will have a name for it.

As BJSLIV has said, you will almost certainly end up being portrayed as the bad guy and if the media are involved that reflects on all of us living here. "English landlord terrorises poor french family" is quite a good headline.

If you can't see these things then sorry but I think you are being naive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about multiple pizza deliveries to the wrong address, delivery of horse muck likewise, suggesting it as a port of call for drunken friends on a night time binge, a bit of illicit fly tipping, a friend with keys to put bleach or something equally noxious down the septic tank while they are out....?

One could get quite creative..... [:)]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A reminder of the forum Code of Conduct:

Users must not post messages which:

  • Are insulting, abusive,

    racist, sexist, or derogatory in any way to others, whether they are

    individuals or companies, users of the Forum or not. This includes

    material sent via personal e-mails through this forum.

  • Threaten, intimidate, victimise or harass others.

  • Incite illegal activity

Moderating Team

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hat really is naive is people making comments without any understanding of the facts. We have a tennant that are professional con persons, he and his wife did not pay the previous owner for 18 months. The baliff knows this person very well and has stated to us that they know the system inside out and use it to their maximum advantage. the same said person has left two young couples with nothing after taking their 10% deposit on new houses.

 

It must be just terrible that such people as the several that have replied always see things not as they are but in a reality that does not exist.

 

ams

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="ams"]

hat really is naive is people making comments without any understanding of the facts. We have a tennant that are professional con persons, he and his wife did not pay the previous owner for 18 months. The baliff knows this person very well and has stated to us that they know the system inside out and use it to their maximum advantage. the same said person has left two young couples with nothing after taking their 10% deposit on new houses.

It must be just terrible that such people as the several that have replied always see things not as they are but in a reality that does not exist.

[/quote]

No one has commented on that aspect simply because I and, I suspect, the others do not have those details.

You should remember that the comments made were in direct response to what you actually posted, therefore, inviting a comment. The fact that having made the points that you did and the responses you received in return did not support your planned actions, does not make those comments wrong.

The point we were making is that what you are proposing to do is illegal and will do nothing to alleviate the situation. Perhaps you should take the time to read again what was actually said.

Gary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now, the media........

The media likes bad news stories. If there is a choice between a good news story and a bad news story they will choose the bad.

Now look at their audience. I suspect quite a significant percentage of English speaking residents of France have Sky and watch that, not French TV or buy French newspapers - sorry if I have got this wrong but as some do not speak French extensively then the French media is not for them. Thus the relevant newspapers and TV are aiming at a French audience.

So do they aim the story about the poor non French landlord who is losing out to the horrible French tenants or the horrible non French landlord who is harrassing the poor French tenants.

I know what my money is on.

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fiona, you have made the biggest error that a property owner could make - you got too friendly with them, too easy. Consider the saying; 'familiarity breeds contempt'. France is not a country to do this kind of thing. Too many laws here favor the tenant and too many make life too difficult for the property owner.

Personally, I would have my own ways of getting rid of such people that would yield the desired result,  �nnot post them here[6].

DiscP>Disconnect all utilities. Do not pay any electricity, gas, water or phone bills on your property.  Forget about any arrears and just cut your losses, just concentrate on getting rid of them. Keep any info on them that you have and keep it for when some other poor unsuspecting landlord asks for a reference about these freeloaders. Then let them have it.

I pity you in some ways, and in others wonder why on earth you allowed this to happen in the first place!.[8-)]

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have just lived through such a situation,  My in-laws bought a second property here, to raise a small income to allow them to renovate their property, and to provide something that could be sold at a later date to boost finances. They did all that was expected of them, the house was renovated to a good standard, used professional agents to let, do background checks, collect rent, make all repairs, carry out inventories etc. Only to be swindled out of 3 yrs rent by the renters, who knew the system inside out, and sublet some of the rooms to make an income. As has been stated, it is impossible to evict during the winter months, then a canny renter will pay a small amount of rent, say 10% per month, then in court the judge always finds in the renters favour, and says they are making an effort to pay; so they stay in situ. This went on for 3 yrs, as well as not paying the water and electric and bins and habitation, these all landed on my in-laws desk eventually. So the long and the short of it is: You can do all the right things, and end up costing you money to pay outstanding bills and get the renters evicted. The house is now on the market to pay off the debts incurred, and for 3 yrs my in-laws had to put their life on hold, as they couldn't afford to renovate their place, go on hols etc.

We tried alsorts to get them out, confronting them in the shops/street. Tried to have water/electric cut off, can't be done. Complained to gendarmes for theft/fraud, try getting them to take any notice. Lawyers letters had no effect. Even tried taking there guarantors to court, to find out they had been conned as well. Tried taking letting agents to court, well you can imagine how far that got.

So 3 yrs on, about €4000 of debt, a house to sell, a house still to renovate, and a whole bucket load of stress suffered. Anyway to look on the bright side, oh I forgot there wasn't a bright side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know nothing about the legal or practical aspects of renting out, but my thoughts:

The people renting have notified you that the electrics are dangerous.  Thus, you have an obligation to make the property safe for them (both from a moral and presumably legal aspect).  After all, if they have told you of a problem which is your responsibility then were there an accident they I guess it would be your insurance, etc..  Given how dangerous electricity can be I would recommend that an electrician visit immediately to make it safe.  I assume that he will not have time to address the real problems and the only option he would have to make it safe would be to disconnect it and them wait until he has more time available maybe next year to actually sort it out properly.

Hopefully the people renting have notified you properly (i.e. in writing), and thus your actions would only be responding to their request that you urgently make it safe.

Just a thought.  Not wanting to suggest you do anything illegal, but that doing nothing might be illegal (no idea myself).

Ian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually the OP stated that the tenants had said that "the electricity" is dangerous, not the electrics, splitting hairs perhaps but I think that as everyone knows and would agree that "electricity" is dangerous, if they are so frightened of this commodity perhaps it would be in their interests to ensure that this dangerous electricity cannot find its way into the dwelling[:)]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="J.R."]Actually the OP stated that the tenants had said

that "the electricity" is dangerous, not the electrics, splitting hairs

perhaps but I think that as everyone knows and would agree that

"electricity" is dangerous, if they are so frightened of this commodity

perhaps it would be in their interests to ensure that this dangerous

electricity cannot find its way into the dwelling[:)][/quote]

If there is dangerous stuff in the house then it needs to be removed. 

Poison gas, rabid animals, and as you say, if those renting consider

electricity dangerous then the owner should accommodate their wishes and

"make it a safe place for them".

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes you should get the EDF to cut of the electricity and someone to cut  the water off because it might be dangerous to tennants,  or  if they went out shopping one day and the house got burgled and everything got taken apart from the kettle and lightbulbs then they would have to buy new furniture and white goods and maybe a new front door to stop it getting cold in the winter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The moderators have deleted the content of this post, as it breached the forum Code of Conduct.

Please do not post messages which:

  • Are insulting, abusive,

    racist, sexist, or derogatory in any way to others, whether they are

    individuals or companies, users of the Forum or not. This includes

    material sent via personal e-mails through this forum.

  • Make libellous comments about individuals or companies, including Living France magazine and FRANCE magazine.

  • Contain explicit language or vulgarities (whether written in French, English or any other language)

  • Use the service in a manner deemed inappropriate by Archant

  • Impede or disrupt the flow of the discussions in the Forum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...