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Visiting France post Brexit


Sprogster
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Hi everyone, been a while since I last posted.

Thought I would highlight an issue that will potentially impact Brits who intend to travel to France and or the Schengen area as a visitor/tourist for extended stays post Brexit, such as retirees with a maison secondaire.

The good news as most of us probably know is that Brits visiting France as a visitor/tourist post Brexit will not require a tourist visa, but as for Americans/Canadians/Australians and other tourist visa waiver third country non EU nationals, will be allowed to visit France and or the Schengen area for up to 90 days a at a time, subject to a maximum of 180 days in a year.

What is probably overlooked though is that there is an additional limit of 90 days in any 180, so if you go to France to stay in your maison secondaire for 90 days, you will not be able to return to France or the Schengen area for 90 days. This clearly is going to impact for example retirees who say for argument want to stay in France or Spain for extended visits.

By comparison the UK is more generous allowing visitors to the UK from third non EU countries to stay in the UK for six months a year in one go if they wish. Likewise, even other countries such as the USA don't have a mandatory requirement that tourists visiting the USA under their visa waiver programme for 90 days as allowed, cannot return for 90 days.

In summary, it looks like those Brits who want the flexibility to spend more than 90 days in 180, whilst visiting France and or the wider Schengen area will eventually require some form of long term visitor visa.
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+1 to BritinB's comment.

More specific to France, French regulations currently are that any visitor, EU or non EU, is limited to a 30-day stay in France. Many Brits ignore this and probably other EU citizens do as well, because they can, and France has tolerated it for EU citizens. However, overstaying the 30 days without a visa is not tolerated for non EU citizens, which Brits are about to become. Remains to be seen what attitude France adopts but if it starts treating some non EU citizens differently from other non EU citizens that would not really be right and could lead to bad feeling.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F302
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ET my understanding was the 90 days as per the link with no mention of 30 days.

Mmmm, wonder how much UK retirees who have a maison secondaire in France put in to the French economy each year? We certainly spend a large amount when we are in France.
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Interesting to see if they have special border control posts for UK citizens between France and Spain, France and Belgium etc. As Paul says: UK retirees with second homes in France spend lots of wonga in small towns and villages. I wonder if the locals would miss the revenue, who knows? Personally, I don't think anything will change, I've always found the French the most practical nationality ever going. Portugal has already said there will be no visas necessary for Brits. So maybe it'll be holiday home in the Algarve? LOL
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@Paul T

"ET my understanding was the 90 days as per the link with no mention of 30 days."

Yes it's 90 days / 3 months. No idea why I wrote 30. Brain fart I suppose, they happen when you get old.

And yes I'm sure some second home owners put a lot into the economy. Others arrive with their car boot full of food etc. The last report I read on the subject came to the conclusion that second home owners spend less per visit than tourists who stay in tourist accommodation, eat at restaurants and do all the touristy things that involve going sightseeing, spending money on visitor attractions etc. I don't know where they got their figures from or whether it took property taxes into the equation. As long as the EHIC card is maintained I don't think Brexit is going to change anything for second home owners, there might be a bit more paperwork and potentially a few extra costs that's all.
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Interestingly, I've been wondering how it might affect us. I have no answers but I'm curious about, for example, my car. Currently French registered and insured, will I legally be able to drive it and continue to insure it in the future? As I will potentially need an international licence to drive in France, and as my "free movement" will be revoked?

It will be interesting to see whether my insurers can advise me, or will just take my money.....
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I wouldn't be too confident about the insurer knowing the answer, YCCMB.

When I decided to keep a French-reg voiture secondaire, my French insurer assured me that it was absolutely ok for me to drive the car in the U.K., if i ever needed to.

It was only after reading (probably on here) that it was against the law for a British resident to drive a foreign-reg car in the U.K. that I realised I had been driving illegally the couple of times I had brought it over. As far as the insurer was concerned, yes it was covered in other EU countries, but he would not have known about the legal side in the U.K. .

Re international driving licences, as far as I recall from holidays in the 1960s, they were just a booklet that translated into several languages the fact that you held a current U.K. driving licence. They were not in themselves a licence; just a confirmation that you held a valid U.K. licence - hence they cannot sneakily be used by people who have lost their U.K. licence for a driving offence. Oh, they did have a photograph of the licence-holder, cos in those days we didn't have photos on the actual U.K. licences.
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Lindal, I rather thought that, but you could when I did. In fact, when I did, you were positively encouraged to do so, as keeping a UK registered vehicle permanently in France was enough to ignite any forum to the point where the flaming could be seen from space. It's all genuinely beyond my comprehension, but until the dust settles I will do nothing.

Loiseau, I am under no illusion as to whether my insurer will have any clues. I am quite convinced that their lack of knowledge will be no barrier to them requesting I pay my premium, though.
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Perhaps you could sell/donate your car to someone permanently resident in France and get them to insure it? With the permission of the owner, wouldn't your UK licence + International Driving Licence allow you to drive it legally?

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I'm slightly ahead of you in the thinking process, pomme,as that's most probably what I will do if push comes to shove. Although my little car is long in the tooth, it has yet to do 50 thousand miles. It would be a pity for that to go to waste.
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[quote user="Thibault"]If the UK leaves with no deal, the number plate which has the EU flag and GB will not longer be valid and a separate GB sticker is needed. If you have a number plate which includes the GB, but no EU flag - that will be valid.[/quote]

That's no use, right-hand-drive cars will no longer be allowed in EU countries.

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Are you all having a go at British humour or making it up as you go ?

All of what you are talking about is utter rubbish for the simple reason that, as long as the tall and lanky lady (the one that lives at No,10) hasn't sang, no-one here knows what will happen.

You can guess and re-guess add some whats and ifs but nothing more that can be taken seriously.
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[quote user="ericd"]Are you all having a go at British humour or making it up as you go ?

All of what you are talking about is utter rubbish for the simple reason that, as long as the tall and lanky lady (the one that lives at No,10) hasn't sang, no-one here knows what will happen.

You can guess and re-guess add some whats and ifs but nothing more that can be taken seriously.[/quote]

Right. Let's all be dead serious. Even if Mrs. Mayhem is producing a pantomime[:D]

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