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Oradour sur Glane


Weedon
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Thanks Weedon.  We visited Oradour last Christmas with my brother and his family (it's only an hour or so from us) and we found the place disturbing, moving and poignant.  Unfortunately, as our visit was over the Christmas period, the main museum was closed so were are hoping to return this summer with our (french) neighbours.  Our neighbour's mum (still alive and living in the village) had friends in Oradour at the time of the massacre.   The most poignant part of our visit was visiting the parallel town (alive and bustling) and seeing the same names over the shops that we had just seen on the memorial - clearly son, daughters, grandchildren etc of those killed in the massacre.  It takes a strong character to live alongside such a tragedy but still move on with your life.

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I've visited Oradour twice and each time have been so moved about the tragedy.  Am I right in thinking that the town was awarded the 'Croix de Honneur' or some medal to acknowledge the sacrifice it made during the war, but that the townspeople declined to accept the medal since they were disgusted with the political cover-up that had taken place and the fact that the principal officers of the SS were never brought to justice?

Mr. Nectarine also thinks that Oradour was in the news again recently, when one of the SS officers who ordered the massacre died - peacefully in his sleep after a long and untroubled retirement.  He cannot remember where he heard this news - French radio perhaps?

 

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I too was deeply moved when I , together with a group of friends visited the site in 1992.

We had just spent 2 weeks taking down a barn roof on a property (in the Lot) my wife and I had purchased earlier in the year.

I had read an article in the Times supplement about the tragedy and the conspiracy theories surrounding the motive for such an outrage.

We stayed in an hotel in Limoges the night before the visit on our way home.Myself and 3 friends (all male) rose early and arrived at Oradour before 8am on a cool , misty October morning.

The low gate across the road was closed , as was the wooden office but unable to ascertain what time it opened and the fact we had a ferry to catch later that day we , I'm ashamed to admit , vaulted over the gate and made our way into the village.

We passed the church which was locked and made our way into the village when one of my friends asked us all to stop and just listen.

The total silence was just eerie , not even any birds singing.

I have heard of this phenomenon before in places like the Second World War concentration camps.

Do buildings , natural structures have memories?

It is certainly a place that will stay in my memory.

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The reason why some of the SS officers were never prosecuted was because they were Alsaciens, and at the end of the war the French government saw national unity as more important. As you say, that was controversial then and now, but understandable.

The time I was there I must say that the behaviour of some English tourists was despicable, allowing children to run about, talking loudly and children actually playing on the lieus de supplice. But it is a very moving place to visit.

Ironically, for the many of you who live in Manche, the SS division that carried out the massacre were themselves almost wiped out in the German counter-offensive at Mortain in August 1944.

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[quote user="Dick Smith"]
The time I was there I must say that the behaviour of some English tourists was despicable, allowing children to run about, talking loudly and children actually playing on the lieus de supplice. But it is a very moving place to visit.

[/quote]

I wonder why that behaviour comes as no surprise?

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Some information about resistance in 1944 here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wByXUnvH4YU

It is a collection of 4 videos, a couple of which, although 8 mins in length, took far longer due to the stopping and starting (why do some videos do that?)

The presenter is the brother of one of the English SAS soldiers involved, so is understandably long winded and passionate about what he is saying.  It didn't spoil it for me though as I get similar tales of the war from my dad every time I see him.

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For those who would be interested in reading a little more widely, Max Hasting's book "Das Reich" tells the story of the journey from Mountauban to Normandy made by the panzer division which committed the atrocity at Oradour. It's chilling reading, Oradour was not the only despicable thing they did. I was full or admiration for the resistance fighters who tried to slow them down on the way.

Hoddy
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I'm can't remember anything about Pont Carral and stupidly, in spite of loads of promises to myself that I won't ever do it again, I've lent the book out so I can't look it up.

There were certainly incidents at Grolejac, Rouffilac, Cressensac (on the N20 north) Brive and Tulle, where they only stopped hanging men from balconies and lamp posts when they ran out of rope.

It was the same panzer group which was responsible for the many memorials in our area of people who they killed well before the Allied invasion.

Hoddy
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We took our daughters to Oradour last year. They are in their twenties, we in our forties. For both generations, it brought history to life. I think there is something wonderful about its preservation. I also visited Bergen Belsen last year. It was February and very bleak. There was only the distant rumble of guns from military exercises in the area and no birds singing. When you see the ordinariness of the villages of bergen - belsen, you have to ask: how did they do all this? And I often wonder when I travel around France quite how the Nazis managed to effect such complete control. Very thought provoking.

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The sad and terrifying reality is that none of us knows how we would behave were we to be placed into similar circumstances.  I imagine that we all like to think we would be heroes but only very few would be prepared to actually die for their beliefs.
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[quote user="Weedon"]

Some information about resistance in 1944 here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wByXUnvH4YU

It is a collection of 4 videos, a couple of which, although 8 mins in length, took far longer due to the stopping and starting (why do some videos do that?)

The presenter is the brother of one of the English SAS soldiers involved, so is understandably long winded and passionate about what he is saying.  It didn't spoil it for me though as I get similar tales of the war from my dad every time I see him.

[/quote]

Got this from the help link on youtube.

http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?answer=56116&topic=10560

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We also visited many years ago and in fact were speaking about it at a family gathering only the other day to my cousins new boyfriend (a farmer) and when I mentioned the "no birds singing etc" he found this hard to believe, but I wasn't mistaken - I remember so clearly looking around and listening for the birds - but 10 years ago there were certainly none there.  Glad you others agree.

 

It is a place I'll never forget - or of what took place there.

 

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[quote user="Northender"][quote user="Weedon"]

Some information about resistance in 1944 here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wByXUnvH4YU

It is a collection of 4 videos, a couple of which, although 8 mins in length, took far longer due to the stopping and starting (why do some videos do that?)

The presenter is the brother of one of the English SAS soldiers involved, so is understandably long winded and passionate about what he is saying.  It didn't spoil it for me though as I get similar tales of the war from my dad every time I see him.

[/quote]

Got this from the help link on youtube.

http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?answer=56116&topic=10560

[/quote]

Thank you Northender.

 

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[quote user="Weedon"]It is a collection of 4 videos, a couple of which, although 8 mins in length, took far longer due to the stopping and starting (why do some videos do that?)[/quote]

Weedon, I have a lesser version of Broadband. Some, but by no means all Youtube videos do this to me. I believe the technical term is 'buffering'.[;-)]

If a video does this I do something else for a while, let it finish, and then click 'replay' and it always works perfectly 2nd time round.

I wish I could still talk to my dad about his war time experiences...and the photos...no one can identify the people (some of whom died as young men) and places in them now.[:(]

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