Historical Census Records (Francis L. Durand, born 1790)

[John]

Hi,

I'm working on my family tree and seem to have run into a wall with one relative.

Francis L Durand was born in France in 1790.  I pay for the international version of ancestry.com but haven't had much luck tracking him down (there are a bunch of trees that reference him, but they don't go any farther back in France them him).  I don't know exactly when he migrated but do know he fought in the War of 1812 (from 1814 to 1815) in the USA.

Are there any sources in France I can find on the internet that might help in this search?

Thank you for any assistance you might offer,

John

[Hoddy]

France he comes from ?

[Patf]

You could try RootsChat.com. which is free.  There's a European section there but there doesn't seem to be much about France on it.

I belong to it for the Northumberland section - lots about the history of my home town. I don't do family history, two of my relatives are fanatics about that.

[Loiseau]

Welcome to the forum, John.

I think Hoddy may have meant to ask if you knew whereabouts in France your ancestor came from. It might be a good starting-point.

I have some British relatives who were living in France in the 1850s and 1860s, and I managed to find them in the online census for the Calvados département - but then I did know that that was where they were living, and it was not a very big town, so I could fairly easily skim through the names of all the residents till I found them. (Mind you, my task was easier because they had a thoroughly British name, whereas Durand is probably fairly common so it will be harder to be sure you have the right person.)

I also found entries for the births of three of their children and the death of one of them during their time in France. (Unlike British records, the French births and deaths records do not give precise addresses, nor a cause of death; I don't know if you get this information in records in the US - where I am guessing you are based.)

This looks to be a useful website:

http://genealogy.about.com/od/france/tp/France-Genealogy-Records-Online.htm

with a link to the archives of each département.

Good luck with the research.

Angela

[Hoddy]

You are right Loiseau I did mean to ask where in France Francis Durand lived. Durand is quite a common name in my neck of the French woods, but I have no real idea if it's widespread.

[pomme]

Here is one Francis (?) DURAND Born 30 December 1790 - Loromontzey, Meurthe et Moselle (54)

Otherwise you could try searching geneanet for other Durand relatives.

[Loiseau]

I had a quick look on Ancestry, pomme, and saw at least three François Durands born in 1790, in Saône-et-Loire, so it could probably be a bit of a needle in haystack situation without some more to go on.

It's not too uncommon a name, unfortunately...

Angela

[John]

Hi,

I saw them too. What I need though is an idea of who migrated away from France and who stayed.

Problem is I just have birth year (and that is all that is printed on his headstone) and ancestry doesn't seem to have migration information. I know he was in the USA and enlisted for the war of 1812 (but he fought from 1814 to 1815), but that's all I know about his other than his wifes name.

Any info would be greatly appreciated,

John

[pomme]

How do you know he was a relative if all you know is when he was born, that he fought in that war, and his wife's name? How do you know he was born in France?

Some more information could be helpful. What else do you know about him/family. Where did he live, when did he die, any further information on state, etc. in the army records...?

http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Du-Ha/French-Americans.html

Napoleon Bonaparte gained prominence as a French military leader and then overthrew the government of France in 1799, granting himself dictatorial powers as Emperor Napoleon I. Although Napoleon scored many popular military victories and initiated lasting reforms to the French educational and legal systems, he also severely limited individual rights. His rules made it virtually impossible for French citizens to emigrate, for example, so only a few immigrants came to the United States until the end of his reign in 1815.

[John]

Hi,

Interesting about Napoleon.  I was thinking my Great Great Great Grandfather came as a young man to the USA, but maybe his family came to the USA during the French Revolution when he was a child?

I can find birth certificates going backwards up to my Great Great Grandmother. Hers says that "Francis L. Durand" was her father and that he was born in France.  Also, I have various U.S. census forms showing him, his children and wife and that his occupation was "Laborer" and that he was born in France (his wife and 3 children were born in Pennsylvania USA).  If being born in France wasn't true, it certainly was a story he stuck to every decade for the census. Also, he married in 1814 at the age of 24 (around when joining the military). 

That's all I know. He was born around the time of the French Revolution but I don't know the exact day and month and I can see at least 3 with that name born that year so, if I can figure out some migration information, I might be able to narrow down a little to whom he was and that might let me get some other info to go back farther. But as of yet I've not found a source for that (I do pay for the international version of Ancestry, but I haven't found it that useful in this case).

Thanks for any info,

John

[Loiseau]

I thought the US census would be a bit more detailed, but his place of birth was only given as "France".

I did find on Ancestry a document from I think 1866, in which his wife was claiming an army pension on the grounds that she had no other means of support and that her late husband had served at least 10 months in the US army. But it had no further hard information, aside from the fact that his wife had to sign the document with an X.

I could find nothing on the shipping lists, either.

Angela

[Hoddy]

Does anyone know when civil registration of births began in France ? If you were looking for a birth in 1790 in England or Wales you would have to look at baptism records because civil registration only began in 1837.

I don't know how carefully French churches kept such things, but in general English and Welsh church records are good around 1790 although I suppose the disruption caused by the revolution might have affected them in France.

[pomme]

See this for 1539-1791 which is parish records and this for 1792 onwards which is civil registration

The French civil registration is not centralised. It is is done locally with the information being departmental; see Genealogy in France

I don't know if there is anything useful on this francogene web site as it is organised by department.

[John]

Well http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=unclefred&id=I488 is interesting in that there were many French nobles with that last name who came to the USA to keep their heads during the revolution.

Course per that website, with loss of 3 pages during the revolution years, one may never know.

Lots of interesting things happened in France (I was looking for a list of those executed during the Revolution but stumbled onto this story);

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_Garnier

John

[Loiseau]

John, given that his widow was obviously illiterate (she signed her request for the army pension with an X), I fear your ancestor may not have been out of the top drawer, socially. :-(

Angela

[Hoddy]

I don't think you can necessarily draw that conclusion, Loiseau. Even women who were married to wealthy men were sometimes illiterate in the early nineteenth century. If you are interested in his social class John a better clue would be the man's rank in the army.

[Hoddy]

And another thing ..........

If the widow or perhaps the children could afford a headstone then they weren't living poverty.

It occurs to me that the location of the headstone might be of use. John - do you know about the French Azilum ? Was your headstone anywhere near there ?

[pomme]

His occupation in the 1850 census was laborer.

[Loiseau]

QUOTE Hoddy

"I don't think you can necessarily draw that conclusion, ... a better clue would be the man's rank in the army. "

END QUOTE

I absolutely agree, Hoddy, and I did qualify my statement by saying "may not"!

According to FindAGrave, the gravestone is at:

Saint Andrews Graveyard, Mount Holly, Burlington County, New Jersey, USA.

On his widow's applications for a miltary pension, Francis's rank is given as "Pte" and "Corporal".

The 1850 US census is the only place I can see that Francis's place of birth is given as "France".

I have tried to follow the lives of his 1850-appearing sons William and Edward through some later censuses, to see what they say about their father's origins. Assuming I have the right William and Edward, they say that their father was born in the US - except for once, in the 1880 census, where William says his father was born "at sea"!

Likewise, I followed Samuel Law Durand, who accompanied the widow to the lawyer in 1866 to apply for the pension - and whom I take to be another son. He in later census states his father was born in the US.

You would think they would have been aware of their father's foreign accent, wouldn't you?

If you have Ancestry, I can PM you the link to the pension application by the widow of Francis Durand. Iit's a huge long URL, and I don't think it will open if you are not a subscriber yourself, otherwise I would post it here.)

There is no mention of a birthplace - so one cannot be 100% sure it's the right guy; and the widow gives a different 1814 date of their marriage from the one shown in the Philadelphia church records - but maybe if she could not read, she also was not too good on dates...

It does say she was in necessitous circumstances, and that her only livelihood was assistance from her children. (On a brighter note, it looks from a handwritten note that she got $60 right off, and was due to get more.)

Angela

[John]

Hi,

The nobility post was more to amuse than anything else (because that article mentions that 3 pages of text were removed from the registry during the French Revolution so the information was lost forever).

It is a large headstone, but per google its a 55 hour walk from where they lived in Pennsylvania to Azilum so I don't know that they were near Azilum at any point as the census only puts them in the same state.

However, I had never heard of French Azilum (google maps calls it French Asylum) before (but there is quite a bit of info out on google using the name as you posted once you know what to search for), so if nothing else, this is a educating experience.

John