Pine processionary caterpillar time!!!

[Lori]

Just as an update, I have not heard back from my email to the ONF.  I did go to the Mairie to ask.  They told me it is not their responsibility to treat the trees, they pointed me to the ONF.  I have seen several Forestry cars driving around but have been hesitant to flag one down to ask them - tempted though.  I did go back to the Maison de Forestiere, again no one there.  I have the phone number so will give them a call.

Why do I feel I am getting nowhere and no one gives a da...

 

[TWINKLE]

Lori!

I used to work with a drummer who now works for Tarn Forestry.  I've just called him and left a message inquiring on the ins and outs of pine processionary caterpillars.  I'll let you and Jon know if he has any information - maybe then Jon will come and play on the other threads[:)]

[Patf]

I think the only way to treat these tall trees is by air ie spraying from a plane.This will be quite expensive so hard to persuade anyone to do anything. Just going by our one infected tree - no way anyone could climb up there and clip them off, even with the longest lopper in the world!. The other solution, cut the tree down. This might happen to ours eventually as it's nearly dead. Pat.

[Jonzjob]

Burnt another one today!!! They do air spraying in Cyprus  http://www.cyprus.gov.cy/moi/pio/pio.nsf/All/EEA35C7DD71A652AC225721800367851?OpenDocument

They have a massive problem there. Definately no shortage of them...

If you take the time to look I am actually posting on other threads as well, but to me this is importaint and the more folks wot know about these things the better.. So patience is a virtue, posses it![:D]

[Lori]

Never have heard back from the Forestry Dept., even though their website promises a 48 hour reply to emails.  Guess I will have to make another visit to the local office.  Maybe one day I will catch someone there.  I would love to think they are all busy out cutting off the infested parts of the pine trees, but thats unlikely huh.

Problem is only getting worse.  Trees are getting more and more covered in the cocoons.  When do they die for winter? or do they?  the caterpillars that is, not the trees.

 

 

[Jonzjob]

These little perishers live throught the winter in the cocoons and come out to feed at night. They even come out in sub zero temps, but it does make them sluggish. The cocoons are incredibly strong too. In the spring, about March time they will come out of the trees when the weather is right and move in their procesions. It is really odd to see, great long lines of the things. Sometimes there can be several hundred in one line. If you break the line then the one at the front just becomes the leader and all the others follow that one. That happens no matter how many times the line breaks.

Did they specify which 48 hours. It may be an hour today and another one tomorrow, could take a while?[8-)]

[Deimos]

I check my pine trees fairly regularly and today I reckon I've got about 3 nests in one tree. Am I right in thinking they look a bit like candy floss (but white) ?

A couple I can reach and cut down with a ladder but at least one is far too high - I'll have to have a think on that one.

Is there a time of day to cut them down (i.e. a time they will be in the nest as to cut down an empty nest and they then build a new own would be daft).

Thanks

Ian

[Jonzjob]

Hi Ian, They seem to come out of nowhere don't they. Yes they are the white candyfloss thingies..

In the day they are normally 'at home'. They do venture out on the odd occasion in day time, but not often and only in very good weather. If you cut them any civilised (after 10 for me. Remember, I am retired [or should that be retarded?]) time of the day will do. Remember though that the hairs can cause a very bad rash so wear gloves when you handle the bit you have cut down. I always carry them with the cutter and then straight away. We have a summer kitchen with a nice big BBQ in it that is just right. The longer they are left the higher up the tree they migrate. The last one I cut was beyond my Fiskars long lopper (Twinks, behave!) and that reaches well over 6 meters whith me holding it upu so I fixed an extention for it and got the beasty.

Have a look at the Fiskars web site http://www.fiskars.com/FR/Jardin/Product+Detail?contentId=82001 . It's the bit of kit I use. It's not cheap, but it is worth every penny and is VERY good... I am pruning a big freestanding leylandwhatever, one of the dreaded, and it's making an very difficult job managable. It's about 8 meters high. With ladders I can reach the top of all of our pines so I should be able to get any cocoons we find.

Good luck.

[Deimos]

I've just cut down a neighbouring try that was higher, but it was close to the road so I had to "dismantle it" top down which was hard work (with a hand saw at the top of a ladder). I may be able to get that high with my ladders but trouble is resting the ladder on something secure at the top - branches get in the way of the ladder resting against the trunk. Plus tree is right next to my gas tank so no "soft landing". I'll give it a try when the weather improves.

Many thanks

Ian

[Jonzjob]

Oh I don't know Ian. If you hot the right part of the gas tank with a falling branch you could be the first ever totally human astronaught, with the enphasis on the naught!

I scored my ultimate today!!! We had 2 cocoons right in the top of one of our pines. 'Me long lopper' couldn't get any where near. So today we went to a local brico and I got a length of 30mm angle iron (look at me going all metrified?!). I glued a couple of small bits of it in an X shape with me electrifical welder and strapped me lopper to one side and the pool brush handle to the other side with a couple of  jubilee clips. I then had a llonngg llooppeerr, about 8 meters long!

The biggest problem was getting the bruddy thing vertizonticle. After that it was childs play and I managed to cut both of the cocoons out of the tree. Now I know that none of them are safe from my wrath [6]. They were the first ones that I burned with my gas blow-torche. It's a lot quicker for the things.

I DON'T LIKE DESTROYING NATURE UNNECESSARALY!!!

[Deimos]

I'm actually leaving mine there at the moment. I actually waiting until the weather becomes a bit more suitable for a fire (I've got loads of stuff waiting to burn, but need a bit less wind). Also, I'm unsure if 8m would be enough for the highest two. I might have a look and see how easy/safe it looks to climb the tree. Certainly my ladder is longer than 8m and I suspect that will not reach.

Am I right is assuming that I've found them a bit late (i.e. that have been there long enough to migrate further up the tree).

Ian

[chris pp]

I don't think that anyone can do more than attempt to control them on their own land, there is no way in the world that they will ever be substantially reduced in France as a whole, never mind eradicated. I see them everywhere I go that there are pines, but they are very specific in what type of conifer they use.

If you rid your garden of them, they will almost certainly be back in the future, the only logical approach is to remove that species of tree from your land.

Chris

[Jonzjob]

Ian, you haven't 'found them too late'. We have been finding them right through the winter period. The only problem is that the later you find them the higher they will be. They are now in the state where they are dangerous because of the hairs particles they shed, but they don't come out of their tree very often during the day. Not until the spring when they will find the right day for them to come down and find a peice of soft ground to bury themselves to pupate into the moths. This is the basis of why they are called processionary because of the long lines they form. They do go from one tree to another during the night,  but will return to their own cocoon for the daytime. We have even found processions when they are looking for the soft ground. I am afraid that they face the same end from me,,, burning! I found one line of them a few feet outside our kitchen door on the terrace the spring before last. If our dog had found them first she would have been in very great difficulty after the meeting and investigation!

Chris, unfrotunately we have about 14 large pines of the type that they like and it isn't possible to get rid of them. They form too much of our garden. So we will have to check and check again all through the time they are 'in residence'. The Spanish have a method where they inoculate the trees and it malforms the caterpillars so they do not develope. But here we are talking big money to do that. They have done it in whole cities and it has been proved to work

They have been known to travel up to several hundred meters from their 'home' tree.

[Deimos]

I've just seen a small bird (blue tit type of thing) perched on one of my "caterpillar nests", pecking and presumably eating the caterpillars (in just the same way as they do with those cages of nuts.

(I'm not good at bird identification).

Ian

[Chateau Miaou]

Hi all, we seem to have a lot of these cocoons in our pine trees and we've chopped down and burned all the ones we can reach.  Between mid-December and late January, we were finding lots of processions of caterpillars during the daytime (anything from half-a-dozen to around 100) and got rid of them too - either the PPC stomp (not me, I tried it but can't bear the (probably imagined) squelch and feel of it, even through heavy shoes) or the short car drive around the tarmacked area where we tend to find them.  I really hate doing this as, despite how damaging they are, they're fascinating to see in action, but we've got curious cats and lots of pine trees - not a good combination!

Question 1: is there a better/kinder way to kill them when we find them on the ground?  Last year, before we had realized quite how dangerous they are, we found a procession of around 300 of them in mid-March and I just swept them all into the ditch around the garden - won't be doing that again! 

Question 2: after very heavy rain early last week, we then had a couple of days of warm sunshine and our biggest pine tree (around 10 m high, with loads of cocoons high up in it) started making 'snap, crackle and popping' sounds in the afternoon.  It was really quite spooky and I'm sure it must have been to do with the chenilles (possibly the cocoons drying out?).  We've not seen any signs of them on the ground yet but, following more rain this weekend, and a glorious day today, I'm expecting to hear the tree again soon.  Any ideas what the noise could be?

I'm getting quite obsessed with this, and would appreciate any suggestions, thanks.

[Jonzjob]

Hi CM, stomping on them will certainly kill them, BUT it will set the dangerous hairs into the air and on a still-ish day they could float up and give you a hard time. It will also leave the remains on the ground and they are just as bad, but obviously they don't wander about [:)]. The same with running over them.

When we find them I carefully sweep them into a dustpan and burn them. I don't know of a kinder way of getting rid of them, but I am open to suggestions.

I haven't heard of any of your cerial noises after rain and I believe that the cocoons are pretty well weather proof. They are VERY strong and if you cut them out of the tree and try to break them apart, very carefully, you will find out how strong! It must be the same silk as the other caterpillars spin..

The moths are very weak fliers and one method that we use to disuade them is to prune the lower branches from the trees. If you cut any of the branches that you can reach then it helps. We cut anything below about 8 feet up. I suppose they too have their Olympic champions so you still have to keep a lookout.

They will be comming out of the trees anytime from March, depending on the weather, and they will be on the lookout for soft ground to bury themselves in to pupate. They will travel anything up to a couple of hundred meters to find the right place. we found one lot a few feet outside our kitchen door on the terra cotta terrace the year before last. Not very soft?

They will also come out of the trees in warm weather to, apparently, sun themselves. So it's good to be aware of that too.

The number of French people we have spoken to and they say how dangerous they are, but they don't seem to do much about them?

[Bob T]

The one nearest my house seems to have dies off. I have used it for target practice with the air rifle since it first appeared and it now looks as if it has good through flow ventilation. I will keep a check on the others that I can't reach and if I find them walking will attack them with a blowtorch.

[Lori]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]

The number of French people we have spoken to and they say how dangerous they are, but they don't seem to do much about them?

[/quote]

No kidding.  The cocoons are all over the place around Bedoin.  I'd estimate that nearly 50% of all pine trees have them, and there are a LOT of pine trees round here.  I went to the Mairie, the Forestry Dept., private owners, everyone just throws their hands up in the air, with the "what am I supposed to do about it" attitude.  Absolutely incredible to me.  I gave up trying to find anyone willing to cut them down or do anything to try to stop the spread.

All I can do now is keep a very close eye on my pin parasol (which is around 30 meters tall - huge).  We have kept the branches 10 meters and lower cut.  I can only hope that helps.

 

[Lori]

Well, I was just watching TF3 midi news.  The problem of the Chenilles Processionaire all around the Mt. Ventoux was covered during the newscast.  Photos shown, photos of what happens if you handle the creatures, etc.  The fact that this winter being an extraordinarilly warm one contributes to their masses and spread.   The one thing it didn't say was what, if anything, was being doen to irradicate them !

I guess, at the very least, it highlights the problem. 

[Suze01]

We have one tree near our house that, for the last few years, had one nest in it. It is near the top and not very accessable to remove.  Te other day the caterpillers decided to go walkabout - only the second time we've found them wandering.  The first time I successfully killed them by pouring bleach on them and this week used ant powder.

This is 'their' tree on the right (you can just see a nest at the top):

[IMG]http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/Lisleoise/Other/Sunsetafteradownpour003.jpg[/IMG]

This is them on walkabout the other day:

[IMG]http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/Lisleoise/Other/Springtime004.jpg[/IMG]

[Lori]

I see it Suze.  Is that them walking on the house walls??  That is too weird, I would have thought they would stick to the ground....

[Suze01]

Yes, it's the wall by the front door, they were going up the door frame too and through a small gap at the bottom [+o(]

[Winegum]

What I want to know is how do they choose the leader?? And what if there are a lot of caterpillars that want to be leader? Do they have a vote? And if no one wants to be brave and lead I guess they just stay at home? I'd definitely not want to lead because I've got a terrible sense of direction, and I'm not much better with a map. It can't be much fun being leader anyway because there'd always be someone in the back having a moan and complaining about the route, or that all their feet were sore or something. Hope I don't come back in another life as a Pine Processional!

[Jonzjob]

The leader is always the one at the front [blink].

If the line is broken for any reason then the new one at the front becomes the leader. There is no any one leader and they don't seem to have any pattern as to where they go, but they can always find there way back by following the pheremone (furry moan if it's a female?) trail and the silk thread that they lay down on the way out. On well used trails there are hundreds of silken threads.

They are incredible and it is a great shame that they are so destructive.

Now things are starting to warm up for spring it is the time to keep a good eye out for them because they will come down from their trees in the daytime and sun themselves on open patches of ground. They return at the end of the day. They will eventually come down in the next few weeks and find soft ground to bury themselves in to pupate over the summer..

[Chico]

We are at the bottom of the Vaucluse and whilst the chenille processionnaire has been an annual problem for the five years we have been there it has exploded massively this year with nests and ugly tree damage everywhere.

Until now I have managed to cut down and burn all those up to about 20 ft (sorry, 6 metres or so) leaving only a few higher than this, but this is clearly not going to be enough this year.

My French neighbour has bought some special sticky tape from one of the big DIY shops who recommended it as a solution to the problem. He has wrapped this around his tree trunks at about 6ft high. The idea is that they cannot crawl over the sticky flycatcher-like tape.

I thought this was a bit suspect as the moths fly into the trees in late spring to start a new egg-laying, nest-building cycle - but if they are poor fliers as reported earlier, maybe putting the tape at 2 metres or so will do the job.

As we are back in the UK until April I can’t quote the exact name of the product, but it was something like Bande Glu. The drawbacks are that they are quite ugly and cost something like 12 euros for 5 metres, which does’nt go far. Also, you have to rasp the bark flat round the tree otherwise they will just scrawl underneeth.

I am no gardener (in spite of all the hours I put in each year), but I remember seeing strips of sacking covered in gunge and wrapped aroung the trunks of small fruit trees in the UK and I wonder if there is some similar trick which might stop these caterpillars crawling up our trees to wrought havoc every year.

Any ideas?

Chico