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Hunters - "rights" of access to land


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As Chris is still at his committee meeting I'll answer for you.

"Seasons are managed at a regional level to compliment the ecological needs of the area and its animal and bird life: the dates of the opening and closing of hunting seasons depend on the département and the animal species. 

While the season generally opens in September and runs until the end of February the opening is decided by the regional préfet (contact the local préfecture for dates). 

Waterfowl shooting opens in August while the shooting of many species such as partridge and migratory birds can be limited to a shorter period.

Selective shooting of male roe deer may be allowed from June to September but a specific permit is needed. Mounted hunt (chasse à courre) is generally allowed until 31 March."

 

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Kind of you to draw that to my attention Gary, perhaps I should run it past you “what I do”, never know you may want to get involved. A little list; active member of GODS, (Groupe Ornithologique des Deux-Sèvres ), Vienne Nature, Deux-Sèvres Nature Environnement., ASPAS, Local représentative for the LPO (Ligue pour la Protection des Oiseaux) in the Vienne, member of the SPA, WWF France, the web site you know about and now the Association (Planete Passion). All of the French Assos have lawyers available or in the case of the LPO and ASPAS they are on the staff. In addition I have regular talks to the ONCFS, (the LPO works alongside them in many areas of expertise) and I have on my computer all the French legislation concerning “hunting”. I've a large number of acquaintances that are hunters and the three subjects that I get asked about, (not on here), more than anything else are snakes, hunting and “things that live in the roof”. The permis de chasse examination is, I suppose, better than nothing, but its’ a bit of a joke really, doesn’t require much intelligence and doesn’t mean anything once you’ve got it, just like a driving licence. .

 

So, what happened with the Gendarmes, you asked so I will answer.

When I was shot the person concerned committed a minimum of three infractions and I had to insist that the Gendarmes came out, they tried to do the "shrug on the phone".

So, this is what happened.

I was in plain view in full sunlight at about 10.30 am on my land. There is a chemin that stops at the edge of my land in one corner, the person concerned appeared out of the trees and onto the chemin, a hare or possibly a rabbit dashed across the chemin between him and me, he swung round and fired, the hare was fine, didn't get anywhere near it. Needless to say I was furious, one piece hit my hand, one piece bounced of my glasses and a lot more hit my chest and legs but bounced of, so you can imagine my language.

He came into my field to where I was standing and proceeded to mouth of at me at how I had no right to be there, (think about that). I informed him in no uncertain terms that it was my land but he continued mouthing of. As always I had my camera with me, as I raised it to take his photo he put his gun in my face. I informed him that I was going to contact the Gendarmes, turned and walked away. When I was about 50 metres away I turned and looked back, he was back on the chemin and had been joined by two other hunters and they were conversing. I went to the house and called the Gendarmes, as I said they weren't interested - I insisted and.30 or 40 minutes later two gendarmes arrived by which time the “hunters” had fled.

I took them to where the incident occurred and took them through what had happened, where he was, where I was and so on. They then asked me why I had certain areas covered with cardboard  and old carpets, I explained that it was to create a bare patch for spring sowing of wild flowers as it would be both a Nature visitor centre and we would also be installing bee hives.  Next question, “Are you an environmentalist?”  I replied “Yes, but more of a naturalist”. The senior officer then said “Someone has been putting metal spokes in the maize field over there to damage the harvesting machines”. To be honest I found this a bit hard to believe and a bit of “Are you serious?” and “Yes, I am” conversation took place.

They then asked what I wanted to do and I informed them that I wanted to pursue the matter. They said they would go and try and find the President of the chasse and then get back to me in the afternoon.

Later in the afternoon they arrived back and said that they had spoken to the President of the ACCA for Blanzay and “that he would try and find out who had been there, but with 80 people registered for hunting in the commune and the possibility that it was a hunter from elsewhere… well, would be difficult but he would try”.

They then asked if I was sure that I wanted to pursue the matter and I replied “Yes” and we started to write my statement. This was interspersed with questions such as “Are you against hunting”. Reply “No, but I am against stupidity and certain aspects of hunting but not hunting as such”. Question. “Are you against farmers”. Reply. “No, but again I have a point of view regarding certain aspects of the industry”.They freely admitted that they didn’t know the laws regarding hunting or hunters. Anyway, we eventually got the statement written and they went there way saying that they would be in touch. I took the senior officers name and details.

About 10 days later I received a phone call from the Gendarmerie asking me to pop in and sign my typed statement. I went to the Gendarmerie later that day and told the female Gendarme who I was and why I was there. She shoved, and I mean shoved my typed statement in front of me and said “Sign”, that’s all, just the one word “Sign”. I proceeded to read it while she fidgeted from one foot to another sighing and rolling her eyes. When I had read and signed it I asked if I could have a copy? Response “NO”, Could I then perhaps have the incident report number? Response “NO”, Could I have anything? Response “NO”.  I bid her goodbye.

Since then nothing, under the carpet, but at least I made sure that it was recorded and since that date there have been no hunters near our land.

The hunt is not well policed, the Gendarmes do not check what is going on, whether people have a permis de chasse, whether they are using illegal weapons or anything else. There is the law and there is its enforcement, they are not the same thing, the President is only with his little band of perhaps 15 hunters, the other 65 plus are doing their own thing.

Obviously that is a “shortened” version but all the key points have been covered and nothing of any importance left out.

Chris,

 

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What a frightening experience. Thank goodness you came out of it  OK, at least physically.

When I tackled the hunter in my field (who had a rifle not a shotgun) I never gave my own safety a thought (red mist kicked in) and, I wasn't threatened in any way.

Those people must be local, I would have thought, and given the assistance (lack of) you have received from the police it sounds like it would be better to let it lie. As they haven't reappeared you can bet that they have been quietly told about your complaint and told to keep away from your land.

I will show your post to my neighbour and see what he has to say about it. Which station did you attend, Gencay or Civray ?

As I said earlier, my meeting with our local group was a completely different experience. They meet in the square most weekends and if I'm passing I usually get a wave or stop and have a chat to see where they are going etc. Totally different to your experience and given how close you are to where I live, its quite eye-opening..

Anyway, glad you're OK

Gary

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Chris, that is horrendous and disgusting. Just happy you weren't hurt, it sounds as if you were very lucky. I wonder what the response would have been if you had lost an eye or even worse. The hunters around here feel that they can do what they want (and do), they are disrespectful and barbaric. I just wish you could take the matter further, perhaps to a different area.
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I should make it clear that it's no big deal, I've had worse experiences with guns. I'm not anti hunting as such as I have said many times and I know many responsible hunters and they were equally shocked at what had happened. To be honest it's a bit of a pain for me that I have to frequently spend time on the subject, but maybe that's a bit unfair, I don't actually object to helping people it's just that I would prefer to spend that time on the more interesting aspects of wildlife and conservation in France, the aspects that are fun and enjoyable, but that's life, it's all part of "the job" and I've helped a lot of people make their land hunt free so that they can enjoy their own land in peace and quiet without worrying about people with guns stomping through it.

It's particularly important at our place because there will be visitors wandering about, including children, as the Centre gets going.

Chris

 

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As I said I would Chris I have had a word with my neighbour.

His view was that of surprise at the lack of action on the part of the gendarmes that you spoke to. He said that they have an obligation to follow up all official complaints

One thing he did comment on and thinking about it, I can see his point, namely, that of taking a camera out to photograph a man with a gun that you'd just had an argument with was, possibly, not the wisest of things to do.

Gary. 

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Hi, l am very interested with the previous posts as l am in the same situation, l have goats moving around 25 acres and it is impossible to watch them 24/7, l live in 87 does anybody know what the actual dates the shooting season starts and finishes,  l have had a couple of near incidents involving the local chasse and their dogs worring my goats, what is the legal route to take if l cant stop their dogs entering my land and causing the goats distress ( not to mention the wife, when shes at home by herself ) or is it a case of locking them up in the barn for the hunting season. ( No not the wife.)
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Unfortunately for you "87" comes under La loi Verdeille which makes it just that bit more difficult to prevent them coming on your land, the procedure is as follows.

Should you wish to take your land out of “la chasse” you will need to complete a simple form. You will require the date of creation of your local ACCA and the name and address of its President; in theory your Mairie should supply this information, but they can be unhelpful, in which case you have to get it from the Prefecture.

You will need plans showing your plots with their numbers and their relationship to the immediate surroundings.

You will need copies of the purchase (title deeds) of your property which proves ownership.

 

As the contract that an ACCA or ACA has with a commune has a duration of five years, anyone using this procedure will not have their request finalised until the next five yearly renewal for their local association, based on five yearly periods from the date of its creation.

 

All of this once completed must be lodged with your Prefecture, making absolutely sure that you get an “Accuse de Reception” a minimum of six months before the next five yearly “birthday” for your ACCA.

 

This can however be objected to and refused, although this is unlikely, if this happens it can be appealed to the departmental tribunal, who will almost certainly approve it.

 

To make life easier and have someone to help overcome any of these obstacles, I would always recommend using ASPAS, an association that will not only deal with obstructions in getting it done in the first place but will also provide legal assistance if there are any infractions once you have your “Chasse Interdite” in place. The only other thing that you would then have to do is put up signs on the perimeter placed every 50 metres, these can be obtained quite cheaply.

 

Other than that you can try talking to them in the hope that this will at least keep some of them away. It's always an issue and not only with Brits, plenty of French people have the same difficulties.

 

As an aside, did everyone know that all cats can be shot in France if they are more than 200 metres from a house? This is regardless of whether they are domestic, wearing a collar etc. Something to bear in mind.

 

Chris...   EDIT. Make sure that you read the posts that follow this. Chris.

 

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As an aside, did

everyone know that all cats can be shot in France if they are more than

200 metres from a house? This is regardless of whether they are

domestic, wearing a collar etc.

 I didn't know that domestic cats were 'chassable'...  Are you sure, because wild cats (not to be confused with feral cats) are protected I think.

Is the domestic cat included in the list of 'nuisances', like foxes are apparently ?

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[quote user="chris pp"]

 

As an aside, did everyone know that all cats can be shot in France if they are more than 200 metres from a house? This is regardless of whether they are domestic, wearing a collar etc. Something to bear in mind.

 

Chris

[/quote]

As I've never heard of that I too would be very interested to know where that bit of information comes from Chris.

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[quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="chris pp"]

 

As an aside, did everyone know that all cats can be shot in France if they are more than 200 metres from a house? This is regardless of whether they are domestic, wearing a collar etc. Something to bear in mind.

 

Chris

[/quote]

As I've never heard of that I too would be very interested to know where that bit of information comes from Chris.

[/quote]

Me too. Does something similar apply to dogs?

Danny

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Well, that got your attention, I sort of thought it might, now I'll tell you the actual facts.

This was indeed the case until 1988 when L'arréte du 30th September was put in place and cats were taken of the list of creatures considered to be vermin, (nuisibles), and then became considered as a domestic animal the same as a dog. Non the less the practice of shooting cats still continues "by accident" and there are cats shot all over France throughout the hunting season and unless you can prove intent in a "Court of law" it's just tant pis. Cats are considered by many hunters as vermin on the erroneous belief that they take take large numbers of gibier, partridge, blackbirds, thrushes, skylarks and even pheasant. Our neighbours, (French), have had two cats shot in the last five years, the response from the President of the ACCA for the Commune was that it wasn't "hunters" that did it.

Needless to say, even though there are some people on this forum that appear to think otherwise, I receive my information from all over France and from all manner of people, groups and Associations, so this is not of the top of my head.

Have a very enjoyable festive week and a peaceful New Year.

Chris

 

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Thanks for the clarification. It will help all cat owners who may have read your previous post and who may have been unfortunately misled.

What you saying then is that this aside is in fact wrong :

As

an aside, did everyone know that all cats can be shot in France if they

are more than 200 metres from a house? This is regardless of whether

they are domestic, wearing a collar etc. Something to bear in mind.

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First l must thank chris for such a detailed answer to my post, the previous owner to my property was a member of ASPAS and the land was classified as a reserve but it didnt or hasnt stopped people entering / hunting on the land, ( the previous owners were French )  and it was just over 5 years ago it was set up as a reserve. For easyness can i not just shoot the dogs for worring my livestock like you can in England.

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Oh dear where is this thread going. Scaremongering, misinformation and talk of shooting cats and dogs. What happened to diplomacy and reconciliation?

 

Like it or not, agree or disagree, hunters are pursuing a way of life. Whilst they recognise land boundaries, dogs don’t. In the year or so we have been here, we have had our neighbours labrador making regular visits, particularly when one of our German shepherd bitches was on heat and on at least three or four occasions when hunters dogs came onto our land. Our male German shepherd has to a large extent resolved the Labrador problem, thankfully without any injuries. Fortunately, as yet, he has not met the two hunting dogs. Yes, it is a problem in the making, particularly next spring when we will have free range chickens and geese in addition to our sheep, etc.

 

I haven’t approached the hunters so far, because I wanted to monitor their actions and establish the extent of the problem. Also, when we first came, due to our limited French, effective communication would have been impossible. I have seen the hunters and from their dress and demeanour, I am confident they are responsible, intelligent people and am confident that constructive discussion will resolve any difficulties.

 

We have approximately eight acres of land and I have already put up a considerable amount of stock fencing. If necessary, I am prepared to put up more to deter the hunters dogs, assuming this will of course stop them. Either way, I will not take any action without first talking to the hunters.

 

Best wishes for a very happy and peaceful Christmas and New Year.

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