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To be legal or not legal?


Soggy
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New member.............first post

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere. We are at the stage where we are considering making an offer on a property in a private sale. We are new to this and getting somewhat baffled by the differing information. Can people let me know whether we should involve one of the many legal firms to help us through the process or should we rely on the notaire.

Thanks
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Welcome to the forum Soggy.

Buying privately you will not have the benefit of an Immo to guide you

through the process so at the very least I would engage your own

Notaire and not use the sellers. This will not cost any more as the fee is split equally between them.

I would avoid getting UK solicitors involved as unless they are familiar and practiced with the French system they can be more of a hinderance than a help.

The only real answer to your question is to do whatever feels comfortable for you.

Good luck.

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I relied on the notaire, and friends advice, especially Caveat emptor since the property was for sale privately. I didn't want an extra legal bill so decided to do the stuff on the ground, that meant I heard all the comments from la bouche du cheval. My french is not brilliant so I found a local Notaire that spoke English (he was local and quite helpful too). I arranged for a recommended local French builder to give me advice for work required on the property and give me a devi for this. Friends helped me check with the Mairie that I could expect planning permission for work on the property and that there wasn't anything untoward about to develop locally. All this before signing the compromis de vente which meant a number of days running around but it overcame my concern that no-one else would be more interested than me in getting it right.

Welcome to the forum, Good Luck[:D]

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Hello Soggy -

There are solicitors in the UK who specialise in French property purchase. Whether they are worth consulting rather depends on how much you are planning to invest in your French property, whether you intend to buy as a holiday home or you intend to move to France permanently and whether you understand the inheritance laws in France which are fundamentally different to those in the UK. This is particularly important if you are with a partner but not married and have children either together or separately.

If you are confident you know what you're doing and your French is good enough to read the sale paperwork and request any relevant clauses to be included, you can easily go it alone. If you don't... and your investment in the property is significant... then I would consult an English-speaking UK solicitor who understands the issues involved in buying French property.

As part of your pre-signing research, don't forget to find out all you can about the village or town in which you are purchasing. For instance, most notaires (or immos) in my area won't tell you (unless you ask specifically) that a run of high-tension pylons are going to be erected between Cherbourg and the borders of Brittany. This will blight a number of very attractive villages in this area. Or there may be landfill site proposals, etc.

Good luck with your purchase.

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Basically just one thing to remember. A Notaire is a government offical and is not necessarily acting in your interests. He/she collects the money due on behalf of the government and oversees the buying/selling procedures. They do not carry out searches etc as a solicitor acting on your behalf in the UK would do. You will need to do your own research for what is happening in your area at the Mairie.

Good luck
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Yes but there is no thing as searches like in the UK, people don't bother (normally) with surveys either. All you can do is make enquiries at the mayors office and the DDE. UK based solicitors dealing with properties in France cannot be sued if they get it wrong because these procedures do not exist so all they can do is give you a report which somewhere is stated something along the lines of 'to the best of their knowledge'. They act more as a sort of investigator and give advice (normally for a high price) as they don't have any legal powers in France.

A Notaire is responsible in ensuring that the sale complies with the requirements of selling a property in France i.e. a survey like termites, energy etc  required by law are completed prior to the sale, also no debt form the property is left unpaid.

The majority of people do not use a UK based solicitor, your best bet I believe is to use your own notaire as suggested previously.

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Notaire definitely required and for the final signing they will make sure that  either you speak French well enough to understand or insist that an interpreter is present.

If you are at all concerned about the state of the house then try asking a local builder to look at the house with you and point out any structural problems.

Good luck and hope all goes well for you.

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The buying process is relatively simple. Once you are ready to make a formal offer on the property, you should do this in writing. If the offer is accepted by the vendor, that you can both proceed to the next stage - appointing a notaire(s) who will prepare the 'compromis de vente' (pre-contract). As the vendor is already in France, he/she will probably suggest their own notaire, who maybe handled their original purchase and who has a copy of the title deeds ('titre de propriété'). As suggested, you can appoint a second notaire to act for you, especially if you want someone who can explain the documentation in English. But a single notaire is normally adequate and he/she acts largely as an unbiased administrator for both parties.

Appointing a UK based advisor is of limited value, as they can realisticall only advise you working on the documentation provided, and they have no means of verifying if this is accurate - for example, an incorrect reference on the town plan ('plan cadastre') or the state of the property next door.

Agains as suggested, you can make your own enquiries on the ground, including asking at the 'mairie' about future plans, or down to meeting the neighbours and confirming you like the area, much as you would check out a UK based property and its location. You have the added assurance of the technical reports (paid for by the vendor) covering lead, asbestos, termites, gas and electrical installation, and energy efficiency.

At the stage of the 'compromis de vente' you also have the chance to insert conditional clauses ('clauses suspensives') in this pre-contract, such as the purchase being subject to a building survey or obtaining planning permission (should you be thinking of undertaking major work on the property). You also have the usual 7 days or longer period of 'reflexion' (depending whether you are paying cash or the purchase is subject to your obtaining a mortgage) when you can withdraw from the purchase.

Without being exhaustive, I hope these guidelines may help. P-D de R.  

 

 

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[quote user="P-D de Rouffignac"]

......someone who can explain the documentation in English......

[/quote]

Actually I forgot to mention that. In my opinion if your going to spend any 'extra' money on this get a good translator rather than a UK based solicitor. Our agency gave us a translation but we had the original translated by somebody else which enabled us to spot a couple of things the agent 'forgot' to translate. Not exactly 'dodgy' things but for instance the agent didn't translate the bit that said if we died before signing the final contract our daughter would be obliged to continue with the purchase. We also took the translator to the final signing and some things we asked to be put in the contract were not but the agent didn't pick this up. We had to stop the proceedings for about an hour while an amended contract was typed up.

With Notaires many are renowned for not answering emails and letters, this appears to be normal judging by the amount of posts about this on the forum over the years. I would suggest that any emails are followed up with a copy sent by registered post, just to be on the safe side.

Good luck, I hope it all works out well for you which I am sure it will.

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I would never tell anyone not to use a solicitor if they want the extra reassurance but, in my experience, solicitors can hold up the process by trying to proove his worth. A notaire has to be neutral and is also the person appointed in France by law to deal with property law. They are therefore the most apt to advise you on property and inheritance law and, being on the ground, are probably the first to know of any new laws about to come in.
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Thanks very much to all who have replied. Your comments have been really helpful.

One further point, would the enquiries at the Mairie about plans for major developments in the area have to be done before signing the compromis de vente or could we include a clause suspensive to the effect of no major devlopments within say 1 km of the property
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[quote user="Soggy"]Thanks very much to all who have replied. Your comments have been really helpful. One further point, would the enquiries at the Mairie about plans for major developments in the area have to be done before signing the compromis de vente or could we include a clause suspensive to the effect of no major devlopments within say 1 km of the property[/quote]

You don't have to do any checking, it's up to you, but you would be a fool not to. I would also check with the DDE as they may be far more clued up than the mayor. As to the rest, over what time period, I mean you never know whats going to happen in the distant future. Wasn't there a case some time back where somebody bought next to some unused land, told it would never be used then many years later the usage was changed and the land was used for something to do with concrete which started at 7 O'clock in the morning with the use of very large and noisy machinery? Didn't they try to get something done but to no avail? I am sure others must remember this with more clarity than me and may well be able to 'point' to reports on the case.

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We are hopefully buying in Haute Vienne. We just want to make sure that there are no major developments planned for the near future. Where would I get the contact details for the DDE for Limousin. Sorry for being so vague, I feel I am the idiot that brings truth to your strapline!!
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[quote user="Quillan"] Wasn't there a case some time back where somebody bought next to some unused land, told it would never be used then many years later the usage was changed and the land was used for something to do with concrete which started at 7 O'clock in the morning with the use of very large and noisy machinery? Didn't they try to get something done but to no avail? I am sure others must remember this with more clarity than me and may well be able to 'point' to reports on the case.[/quote]

No, but I do remember the one about the Chalet on the side of a dodgy mountain, they got the contract cancelled and deposit back though.

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