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Liz
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I have only ever heard "Vous êtes terminé?" in a restaurant.

As to when you change from bonjour to bonsoir, the rule is simple. During the period of doubt, whichever you decide will be wrong. You decide it is time for bonsoir? The French person will say bonjour. Say bonjour? He/she will say bonsoir.

So why worry about it?
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Around here the general idea (I won't say 'rule') is that if you have already seen the person during the day and wished them a 'bonjour' then you can say 'bonsoir' if it is mid-afternoon + (or indeed say 're-bonjour' which is quite popular). If it is the first time you have seen them, and it is after mid-afternoon, then either/either would do - but it really doesn't matter, though someone did greet me with a 'bonsoir' one morning and got rather embarassed at their gaffe. 'Bonne journée/bonne soirée/fin d'apres midi' is usually a departing  wish.

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Indeed, the French like to find all kinds of ways of wishing you "bon

X", where X can be a whole range of things. One of my favourites is

when you receive an e-mail which says "bonne reception". (Before any

pedants point out that I've misspelt this by missing out the accent,

it's because I'm using Mrs G's laptop with English keyboard!)

Rob

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Am I the only one who thinks Rough Guide got it right?  (and you're all wrong!)

While you are eating the waiter might ask "Ça y

est?" meaning roughly "Is it OK?"

After you have finished he might ask "Ça y était?"

or "Was it OK?"

It's just the same thing in the past tense.

Patrick

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[quote user="Patmobile"]

Am I the only one who thinks Rough Guide got it right?  (and you're all wrong!)

Patrick [/quote]

Hello Patrick,

The reason that I think the Rough Guide got it wrong is not that "ça y était" is not an acceptable phrase (which of course it is). It's just that I've never been asked that after a meal in a restaurant, whereas I have often been asked "ça a été?". As the two phrases sound very similar, I'm guessing that the RG writer assumed he/she heard the former, when actually it was the latter.

Not something I would die in a ditch over, though.

Rob

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[quote user="Patmobile"]Am I the only one who thinks Rough Guide got it right?  (and you're all wrong!)[/quote]

Yes you certainly are! Or I've speaking French comme une vache espagnole for over 40 years!! [8-)]

[quote user="Patmobile"]While you are eating the waiter might ask "Ça y

est?" meaning roughly "Is it OK?". After you have finished he might ask "Ça y était?"

or "Was it OK?". It's just the same thing in the past tense.Patrick [/quote]

OK let's clear this up before there is even more confusion.

In a restaurant context:

"ça a été?" =
"was it OK?"

"ça y est" or "ça y était" = "
have you finished" but this would be very familiar, something you would say to a child who's keeping you waiting, not something I'd like to hear as a client in a restaurant.

[quote user="Opalienne"]Surely 'ca y est' means more 'there you are' than 'is it OK'?  [/quote]

Yes, this is also a correct meaning for "ça y est". It all depends on the context.

[quote user="Rob G"]The

reason that I think the Rough Guide got it wrong is not that "ça y

était" is not an acceptable phrase (which of course it is). It's just

that I've never been asked that after a meal in a restaurant, whereas I

have often been asked "ça a été?". As the two phrases sound very

similar, I'm guessing that the RG writer assumed he/she heard the

former, when actually it was the latter.R
[/quote]

Rob, this is right, the confusion is probably caused by the similarity of the sound of the two questions.

[quote user="Ron Avery"]Surely the most common phrase or word use in this situation is "terminez?" or sometimes "fini?"[/quote]

Hello again Ron,

You are also right [:)], althought the spelling would  be "terminé?" (as in "avez-vous terminé?") rather that "terminez" (which is the imperative form of the verb).

PS: Ron, this is my second lesson for you... [:P]

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[quote user="Hoddy"]Thanks for that Clair. I really appreciate such a clear explanation. I may have to come and live next door to you !

Hoddy[/quote]

You're welcome Hoddy!

I just hope I'm not putting anyone's nose out of joint by correcting (what I perceive as) misunderstandings...

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[quote user="Clair"][quote user="Hoddy"]Thanks for that Clair. I really appreciate such a clear explanation. I may have to come and live next door to you ! Hoddy[/quote]

You're welcome Hoddy!
I just hope I'm not putting anyone's nose out of joint by correcting (what I perceive as) misunderstandings...
[/quote]

Can I move next door as well Clair?[{]  For the third lesson, any chance of doing my homework?  [:D] We are doing the subjunctive, how confusing is that??  And if that was not bad enough, when to use en as a pronoun, you French teachers have no hearts!!!![;)]

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[quote user="Ron Avery"] We are doing the subjunctive, how confusing is that??  And if that was not bad enough, when to use en as a pronoun, you French teachers have no hearts!!!![;)][/quote]

That's really awful Ron! I feel for you! [:S], really! [:P]

French grammar is so difficult to explain and I'm glad I can use it without having to think about it!

This is what I've found about "le subjonctif"

As to "en", this might be of use to you: http://grammaire.reverso.net/index_alpha/Fiches/fiche292.htm

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It has happened again.  We've been out to lunch and the waitress takes away the plates and says 'ça a été?'.  At least that's what it sounds like.  I think it means was the meal alright?  Does it and what is the grammar?  It just sounds like the perfect tense of être to me and the individual words don't make much sense, perhaps I've got it wrong.

It reminds me of 'ça y est'.  It took me years to work out that when they said what sounded like sye-aye that is how it is spelt.

 

We hear ça a été all the time in restaurants around here. One particular friend  assures me with much tutting that it is vulgar, bad french. And after that little lecture I have had on more than one occassion, I wouldn't dare say it.

 

It means was it OK, but there are plenty of other things that could be said that are much more polite.

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[quote user="Clair"]OK let's clear this up before there is even more confusion.

In a restaurant context:

"ça a été?" = "was it OK?"

"ça y est" or "ça y était" = "
have you finished" but this would be very familiar, something you would say to a child who's keeping you waiting, not something I'd like to hear as a client in a restaurant.

[/quote]

Clair, thanks for the explanation

Obviously all the waiters around here speak much worse French than you.  Where are their manners?

Patrick

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That's really awful Ron! I feel for you![:S] , really![:P]
French grammar is so difficult to explain and I'm glad I can use it without having to think about it!

Thanks for the links Clair, a pity they are in French[;)]

I think we get these things in our minds easier if there are rules formal or otherwise. One I saw the other day for using amener, emmener and apporter and emporter, which always seems to confuse the English as we make no distinction between objects and people in this context.  The "rule"  was amener/emmener has "men" in it so refers to people and apporter/emporter had port in it so refers to portable objects, then I found out most French only use amener anyway[:'(]

 With using "en" I am using a rough rule of thumb of, if there is a "qualifier" in front of the noun, like de, du, deux, trois, beacoup etc you use "en"  and with nouns without a qualifier you use le, la, l', les instead of en, does that make sense?

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A useful way to distinguish between amener and emmener is to think of the 'a' as 'to'.   So you would amene someone to the shops, for example, if you were making a special journey for that purpose, but if you said that you were going to the shops and would take someone with you (as an extra, almost an afterthought) you would emmene them.   Is this correct , Clair?
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