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A Question of Grammar....................


Bugsy
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Yes, Katie to your question, just like Twinks.  It's easier to write as you have time to think about it.  But I even notice now sometimes, and Maggi noticed it when I spoke to her on the phone, that I'm saying things in English, but the French way, sort of translating back from French.

Also, both Twinks and I have French husbands, which is the worst as you get into the habit of speaking a mixture of both.

 

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When her little one was smaller, I think she spoke more English, but these days she has gone back to the habit of French French French.  Her husband tells be that her accent is so perfect people do not believe it when they are told she is a Brit.  I think that is a benefit of having a musical ear.
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The messages of one of the posters on this forum in particular I find very hard to read, and like Clair, despite the posts being interesting I sometimes find them just too hard and give up.

I think that the person would have been well educated as he appears to be, or have been a lawyer, I am sure that in his profession the spoken word was far more important than the written as opposed to say a solicitor.

Me I had a terrible education and am trying to make up for it now but typing (rather than writing) late at night after a few drinks does not bring out the best in me.

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[quote user="J.R."]

Me I had a terrible education and am trying to make up for it now but typing (rather than writing) late at night after a few drinks does not bring out the best in me.

[/quote]

At least it's legible! 

I ignore posts without punctuation, paragraphs and capital letters as they are far to hard to decipher. 

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Cassis - I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't bear the no capital letter, no punctuation posts.  I understand that not everyone is brilliant at English but it is wearing trying to read things which look like James Joyce on a bad day.  Christine - I think I only noticed your backwards English because I do it too.  I now think I don't speak either language well and am worried that after another 5 years in France I won't be able to speak to anybody coherently[:)] 
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At last someone who understands me!!!

From the day my daughter was born up until she was about 61/2 years old (she's nearly 8 now) I spoke only English to her.  Not a single French word - my husband's French, and he spoke no English at all to her so as not to confuse her.   When she started CP class at school (standard 1 in Britain I think)  she started asking me to stop speaking English to her,  when I'd reply that it was important  that she didn't forget how to speak it, she'd just say that she was fine and didn't need to learn anymore. 

Her school friends were coming to play and  sleep over at the weekends and it was getting a bit unnatural.  The reason I first spoke English to her in the first place was because it felt like the most perfectly natural thing to do - even though I'd already been living here and speaking French fluently for 10 years.  It didn't feel natural anymore and I could feel her really starting to resent it - so I stopped.

I researched it a bit and apparently it's a natural process concerning mixed languages parents and their bi-lingual children.  We talked about it in depth here on another thread not long ago.

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[quote user="Dick Smith"]

This is not intended to put anybody down, just to point out that more and more posters are writing with little or no punctuation. Which is not conducive to clear understanding. Which is why we have punctuation in the first place...

It isn't hard, not rocket science. A capital letter at the beginning of a sentence and a full-stop at the end! The occasional comma to denote a pause, list or new phrase.

[/quote]

I find that I give up reading many threads on this forum simply because they are too difficult to read.  This is a shame as the poster may be making a valid point in an argument, or giving useful information.  One poster on this thread was trying to say that punctuation and grammar aren't important.  I had to re-read that post twice in order to understand the whole paragraph, and I stopped counting the errors when I had found twenty.  My biggest bugbear is a lack of capitalisation in sentences, as without it, reading is hard work to say the least.

I expect that I have made some glaring errors in this post, and I expect that a number of you will be able to criticise the construction of my sentences. [:)]

One last gripe...  Over the last two days, I have yet to come across anyone, on any website, who has used 'loose' or 'lose' in the correct context.  I can blame my husband for this as he noticed it a few weeks ago; now we both can't help but notice it.  Maybe we're both loosing our marbles.[;-)]

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What about the use of s and z in words like surprise/surprize, or realise/realize? I always use the s form, and used to think of the z as an Americanism, but was told off by my ex-head (who was a zedder) as the z is the older and more traditional form, maintained in the USA not mutated there. It is in UK English that we have made the change, at some time in the last 100 years.

And - whilst I am at it - the convention until the 1930s used to be that street names were hyphenated and the 'street' part had a lower case initial letter, as in 'Bond-street'. This is never seen nowadays, but is it more correct than 'Bond Street'?

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An interesting comment Dick, about the s / z situation. I too tend towards "s" and have had numerous arguments with my wife who insists that the z is correct, in most cases. We have agreed to differ but, from what you say, she is actually correct ( I hope she doesn't read this !!!!) [:)]

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Steve, I too prefer the '...ise' version, but neither is incorrect (or should that be 'both are correct'). Some dictionaries, e.g. Oxford, use the traditional/US '..ize' spelling, while others (e.g. Chambers) agree with us.

Dick - not at all sure about 'surprize'. Not saying it is wrong, but certainly uncommon, even in American English. The only reference I found with that spelling (in admittedly only a very perfunctory search) was the name of a US warship.

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"Running quicker" instead of more quickly, annoys me; "lay down" when it should be "lie down".  This relates to earlier posts about learning other languages.  It must be a great problem learning French if you have never been taught or grasped the difference between adjectives and adverbs or transitive and intransitive verbs, non?

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[quote user="Will"]

Steve, I too prefer the '...ise' version, but neither is incorrect (or should that be 'both are correct'). Some dictionaries, e.g. Oxford, use the traditional/US '..ize' spelling, while others (e.g. Chambers) agree with us.

Dick - not at all sure about 'surprize'. Not saying it is wrong, but certainly uncommon, even in American English. The only reference I found with that spelling (in admittedly only a very perfunctory search) was the name of a US warship.

[/quote]

Hmmm. I agree - probably more common as 'surprized' but not a good example. But logically acceptable.

And don't get me started on 'di-sect' - a horror! Two perfectly good words, bisect and dissect lost!

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If we're adding pet foibles, can I include people who say "different than "or "different to" rather than "different from". I expect that's nitpicking but tonight I just don't care!

I don't see that it's elitist to be proud of the skills you have; I wouldn't belittle someone who had excellent skills as a plumber or hairdresser, for example. I can do neither of these things but would have great respect for those who can. I'd also gladly learn if that were possible. I wonder how many people who post using poor English  write the first thing that comes into their heads and then click on the post button immediately. Some of us read what we've written, check for mistakes and consider whether we could have worded anything better before we send it into cyberspace. In my experience, these things don't just happen, they take a bit of effort..

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[quote user="cooperlola"]

Many's the time I've posted something then, when I've read it, I have had to edit it for spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors!  When I spot any in my own posts (happens a lot), I just have to change them.   I'm sure there are lots I miss too.

[/quote]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this!!  I thought I was either just weird or paranoid (& I just checked "paranoid" in the dictionary!!)

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I would think of that as normal (if for no other reason than it is what English teachers have been trying to inculcate into people for the last 100 years), rather than 'elitist' or 'having a go' or any of the other things good English has been accused of being in this thread!

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