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Compromis de vente: who signs first?


Chauffour
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if the buyer is oversea, who signs the Compromis de Vente first?

the contract has to be sent oversea, translated and checked by the oversea solicitor.... all this takes time and if the seller had already signed, it means the seller will be already committed and unable to accept a better offer...?

any idea?

 

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Both parties should receive a copy of the compromis before the signing.

I believe (but am not an authority on this so I will duly await correction) once both parties are satisfied the overseas buyer gives power of attorney to the notaire who signs on their behalf.

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The compromis is signed by the seller then usually mailed to the absent buyer for signature.  As mentioned, the absent buyer has the option to arrange local power of attorney through the notaire.

Having committed himself to the sale by signing the compromis, the seller will not be in a position to consider any better offers.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

The compromis is signed by the seller then usually mailed to the absent buyer for signature.  As mentioned, the absent buyer has the option to arrange local power of attorney through the notaire.

Having committed himself to the sale by signing the compromis, the seller will not be in a position to consider any better offers.

 

[/quote]

 

well.. this is what the agent would like you to do so he has the sale secured, but we refused and it can be done the other way... the compromis was sent last week in the uk, checked and translated by the English solicitor, signed by the buyer, now it's on the way back and we will sign it next week (unless the people who viewed yesterday has a better offer [:P]) 

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Sunday...

 

my initial post was written well before the contact was sent and signed... and as it has been signed by the buyer before me, i just wanted to let others know that it can be done and what you said is not the only option... this has nothing to do with being clever or not...

(i would rather think the agent was trying to be clever... [:P])  

i see nothing wrong in keeping your options open... wait till you will be in a position to sell and then tell me you would not accept an higher offer before you sign any contract! (specially if the first offer is significantly lower than the asking price!!!)

 

 

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i didn't know the answer... i asked, in case someone had a similar experience, i got one reply that seemed to state there was only one option: the seller has sign first.

i discovered that was not the only option.

so i wanted to let know that it can be done the other way, and  that the estate agents are not always right (but we all know this, don't we?).

 

 

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Before anyone gets too smug about keeping their options open and working the system, can I raise a couple of points?

First, if a 'compromis de vente' ends up not being signed - by either party - there is the question of who pays for the work done in preparing it. This is not a free service.

Second, there is a considerable doubt about the legality of saying 'yes, I wish to sell' and then re-neging. This might be construed as breach of a verbal contract. In any event, agents often ask for a signed offer from the intending buyer, which is countersigned by the vendor, before anyone proceeds to the next stage (and its attendant costs) of preparing the 'compromis de vente'. This written offer has been held to be binding by the courts.

I have been in at least one situation where the vendor refused to countersign the 'compromis' and the sale was nonetheless forced through.

P-D de Rouffignac MA LLM www.francemediterraneanproperty.com

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Is it really a legal matter at all who sign's first ?

As in many other aspects of buying and selling is it not the case that, as long as both parties are in agreement and are aware of the risks of breaking with customary procedures, then almost anything is possible ?

Init [blink]

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No, legally, the order in which the various parties sign the contract is irrelevant. Many agents' experience is that the process usually works better if the seller signs first - though others may prefer the buyer to sign. There's no benefit to the agent other than a potentially smoother transaction, though it can be happen that some of the pushier agents want to get a buyer to sign immediately after a viewing in order to get a pschological advantage and maybe discourage them from viewing other houses afterwards with other agents. Mrs Will (Judie) prefers to let buyers fully consider what they are doing; the less pressurised approach pays off in the longer term.

Do take note of what P-D says. You should never agree to anything unless you are prepared to follow it right through. Even if an agreement is only verbal, it is still an agreement. Unfortunately too many people (buyers and sellers, particularly English who are used to a more cut-throat system) put too much score on the fact that it is difficult to enforce a verbal contract, and, moreover, use the so-called cooling off period as a get-out - it was introduced under European contract law to protect buyers against high-pressure sales techniques, not as a convenient excuse for the indecisive or mercenary buyer.

 

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The 'customary procedures' are designed to regulate the transaction and in particular, to preserve the legal rights of the buyer. 

From the buyer's perspective, he has made an offer in good faith which he believes has been accepted by the seller.  On that basis, he has paid the costs of having the compromis vetted by his UK solicitor and has signed it to commit himself to the deal. 

On the other hand, this seller has every intention of dishonouring the deal in the event of a better offer materialising and that by insisting on signing the compromis last, he believes that he is preserving this option.  Whilst the buyer's UK solicitor will presumably have pointed out the risks of breaking the procedures, it would appear that the seller has not had the advantage of such advice.

The agent has clearly fulfilled his contract by finding a buyer (whose offer was accepted), so I'm unclear why the seller considers the agent was trying to be clever..........  [8-)]

 

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Quite right SD.

Though it is surprising just how few buyers use a British lawyer to vet the compromis documents. Most seem very trusting of a system they know little about. Thank heavens the vast majority of agents are honest [:)]

 

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i just want to clarify that both agent and buyer (and consequently their solicitor) are aware that my house will remain on the market until I sign and they knew in advance about the already booked house viewing on the Saturday.

if the buyer wanted to avoid the risk he could have taken the first flight and we would have signed the contract on the same moment. 

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It seems more complicated doing it your way around.

1 If I were placed in that situation I would be reluctant to arrange and send off a deposit while there was still such a degree of uncertainty.

Nevertheless

2 The presentation of a contract for signature would surely be excellent evidence to support a claim that the  vendor had breached a verbal contract to sell and will be entitled to compensation.

3 The estate agent involved will almost certainly sue for his fees if he is excluded from the second transaction.

4 The purchaser will have to be sent notification that the document has been signed by the vendor in order for his cooling off period to be start.

 

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[quote user="Chauffour"]

i just want to clarify that both agent and buyer (and consequently their solicitor) are aware that my house will remain on the market until I sign and they knew in advance about the already booked house viewing on the Saturday.

if the buyer wanted to avoid the risk he could have taken the first flight and we would have signed the contract on the same moment. 

[/quote]

Now if I were the buyer I would walk away. I would not like your attitude and I would be wary of the property.

I am one who flew over to sign a compris and the seller did not turn up - result a lot of expense for nothing and as for the estate agent the forum rules prevent me from commenting.

The house we did buy - the sellers were excellent but not so sure about the agent.

My advice would be to get the seller to sign first. If they are not prepared to do that walk away.

Will - I would be interested in what percentage of Mrs Wills buyers pull out during the cooling off period.

Paul

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Gazumping is rare in France, probably because the seller traditionally

signs first.  If you really want to sell your property and have accepted

an offer from someone, why are you making such a fuss about signing

first?  If someone else comes along with a better offer, are you saying

you will break you word to the first person ?  Would you be happy if

someone did this to you ?

P-D knows what he is talking about.  Estate agents often have to work

very hard and are as much at risk from dishonest people who waste their

time as a buyer or seller may be.  Chauffour, your comment about your buyer

"taking the first flight" was a little trite - he obviously believed in

your honesty when you accepted his offer.

I took great pleasure once from turning away a person who wanted to sell her property to the highest bidder.  In fact she was French and hoped to sell to a Brit.  I told her we were not an auction house and she should go elsewhere !

It is a sad fact that trust and integrity can be somewhat lacking when it comes to the housing market ! !

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Mrs Will here. In 6 and a half years, I have had no clients pull out during the cooling off period. Although the current market requires us all to be more proactive, I still feel that it is far better to allow clients to reflect without undue pressure from me. If they want a property I'm offering, then they want it and the softly softly approach seems to be what they prefer.
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In the sale & purchase process the vendor knows the property and has agreed a price. So its only a price and date thing for them from then on.

 

The buyer may be proceeding in good faith but still finding out lots about the property (no vendor delivers all the info on a plate, do they ?) e.g. anything from CH that hadn't worked in 10 years to a possible right of way issue. So the buyer is the one needing the protection and the option to back out (with legitimate reasons).

 

John

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[quote user="Judie"]Mrs Will here. In 6 and a half years, I have had no clients pull out during the cooling off period. Although the current market requires us all to be more proactive, I still feel that it is far better to allow clients to reflect without undue pressure from me. If they want a property I'm offering, then they want it and the softly softly approach seems to be what they prefer.[/quote]

Thanks Judie - interesting reply. Perhaps the softly softly approach is the reason that your buyers do not pull out - they have made the decision to buy, it has not been forced on them by an agent keen for their commission.

For any seller perhaps they should consider that a pushy agent may not be acting in the best way for them.

When we were looking for a property, one agent was not pushy, and spent time showing us a number of properties but alas not the right one, and a little sadness for not buying through her. However, if I know that some one is looking in the area that she operates I always tell them to contact her - hopefully, whilst she did not get any commission from us she will get some from people that we recommend contacting her.

Paul

 

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  • 1 month later...
I have a friend who is a Notaire, and we were discussing the differences between the UK and the French property markets, he said that if a vendor accepted a lower offer (via him if he was selling directly, or else via the agent, obviously) then he has - in my friend's view - entered into a new and specific verbal contract, and he would take a very dim view of the vendor subsequently trying to reniege on it.
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