Jump to content

perfect or imperfect ? that is the question....


Pads
 Share

Recommended Posts

I want to write....

I wish you were here.

 Now I have come up with :

Souhait vous étiez ici  (imperfect)  or is it .... Souhait vous avez été ici ( perfect)

I have read and reread the discribtion given to me about the 2 tenses but neither seems to fit this. I feel like its the first one but dont know why.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You would use the présent du subjonctif:

Je souhaite que vous soyez ici.

S U B J O N C T I F

Présent
que

que

qu'

que

que

qu'

je

tu

il

nous

vous

ils
sois

sois

soit

soyons

soyez

soient

Imparfait
que

que

qu'

que

que

qu'

je

tu

il

nous

vous

ils
fusse

fusses

fût

fussions

fussiez

fussent

Passé
que

que

qu'

que

que

qu'
j'

tu

il

nous

vous

ils
aie

aies

ait

ayons

ayez

aient

été

été

été

été

été

été

Plus que parfait
que

que

qu'

que

que

qu'
j'

tu

il

nous

vous

ils
eusse

eusses

eût

eussions

eussiez

eussent

été

été

été

été

été

été
Link to comment
Share on other sites

B*gger me, she's onto the subjunctive now!![:-))]  How long have you got, Pads?

Je souhait que vous soyez ici.

It is the subjunctive in English, and thus it is in French. 

"On met le subjonctif apres les verbes : de crainte; de souhait; de volonte et de desir; de necessite; de doute; de denegation et de refus; de sentiment et d'emotion"

This is a long and complicated subject and the subjunctive form is very tough (and I'm not that good at it myself, so don't take what I say as gospel!) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So instead of, I wish you were here , it would be: I wish that you are here ?

Is this what the french would write on there postcards ?

Is the present subjunctive the only one ? or are there other subjunctives ? as I only have a discribtion for subjunctive in my book which gives examples like : If I were you , I wouldnt bother , or,  So be it .  Does I wish you were here , fall under this one ?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No Pads - I wish that you were here.  Were is the English subjunctive form (that is why it is incorrect to say "I wish you was/are here" or "I wish I was/am rich" in English, as in French.)  Precisely as your book says "If I were you" and NOT if I was/am you!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mmmmm Im a little confused ..... my task was to write a post card giving 10 exciting things I did on my holiday ( boy I should be so lucky, cleaned the house , mowed the lawn life is full of excitement.....)

using the past tense plus perfect and imperfect ....... I rode a horse to the top of the mountain it was fun.... etc....

Now I would expect her to think I would write this on a postcard(or maybe im the only sad person who still writes this [blink]) normally she mentions any traps I might fall into, but no mention of this .

Dont suppose there is any chance it could be written using one of these ?[:$]   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She is asking you to write this in poscard form, to encourage you to describe things which happened in the recent past.  "I wish you were here" and the resulting subjunctive are a different ballgame altogether.  It's one of the last things one learns (not least because a- it's difficult and b - because it is not used much in English, and rarely used correctly.  For a quick example, just look at Michel Thomas's explanation above - unhelpful at best, utter r*bbish at worst!  Sorry.)

As a very rough guide, the subjunctive is used for something which might not happen, or which is conditional upon something else happening or being true.  The example of "I wish you were here" is a perfect one.  The person clearly is not there, has not been there, and will not be there - it is a hope only.  Thus it isn't either present, future or past - it is subjunctive.  But honestly, Pads, if I were you, (which again is something I will and can never be, thus the subjunctive is used in English) I would leave this alone for now, and just concentrate on the exercise and what your teacher wants - the usage of verbs relating to the immediate past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is the best combined explanation and example of the subjonctif that I have ever seen.[:-))]

I use the tense but have never really got my head around it as I tend to rely on mental examples as above, if my printer were working I would print it and keep it in my Bescherelle.

Pads, I urge you to do the same for when you are ready to tackle or start using the subjonctif, as others have said now is not the time and it is not what your teacher is after.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mmmmm yes I think you are all right , I will just put hello and get on with my 10 sentances, Im always being accused of being over enthusiastic with my work, I think I see what she means now !![:)]  

By the way how many of you still put 'wish you were here' on your postcards??[Www] 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="DerekJ"]"For a quick example, just look at Michel Thomas's explanation above - unhelpful at best, utter r*bbish at worst!"

Just to be clear here... is that comment directed at my input or Michel Thomas.
[/quote]Mr Thomas, not you!  I mean, who says "you be here"?  I just don't think it's helpful to try to translate something by using English that isn't English!

Profuse applogies if I appeared to be referring to you.[:$]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Mr Thomas, not you!  I mean, who says "you be here"?  I just don't think it's helpful to try to translate something by using English that isn't English!

Profuse applogies if I appeared to be referring to you.[:$]

[/quote]

Sorry. I was being too sensitive. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pads

You're right, it doesn't fit.  Souhaiter takes que + subjunctive ie Je souhaite que vous soyez ici (or more commonly que vous soyez la- sorry no accents!).  Not sure how good an equivalent of the English "Wish you were here" this is though.  Anyone know a better phrase the French would use?

Mary

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Pads"]

Mmmmm yes I think you are all right , I will just

put hello and get on with my 10 sentances, Im always being accused of

being over enthusiastic with my work, I think I see what she means now

!![:)]  

By the way how many of you still put 'wish you were here' on your postcards??[Www] 

[/quote]

No, no don't listen to all those naysayers. Be enthusiastic, even over enthusiatic, and you'll learn so much more.

The beauty of learning the subjunctive in French is that you can then recognise it when you see it in English. How many monoglot English speakers can say that?

For what it's worth I think the "wish" bit should be in the present conditional tense - "je souhaiterais" -  but  to me "souhaiter" doesn't sound quite right in this context. I would have used "aimer" and, as it's a post card, you would probably be using the "tu" form instead of "vous". Donc, my translation would be "J'aimerais que tu soit ici avec moi".

I wish I were there with you [:)]

Richard T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps it is a cultural thing, perhaps the French don't wish others on holiday with them?! For us it is part of everyday language, (think of the TV show) but I've never heard it here.  It is like "looking forward to seeing you", although you can say "j'attends avec impatience de te voir" I have been reliably informed that this is not a very "standard" thing to say at the end of a letter...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Tourangelle"]Perhaps it is a cultural thing, perhaps the French don't wish others on holiday with them?! [/quote]

I'm not sure the British do either!

In English we almost always write "Wish you were here" (without the pronoun). If you wrote "I wish you were here" it would sound as if you meant it.

[quote] It is like "looking forward to seeing you", although you can say "j'attends avec impatience de te voir" I have been reliably informed that this is not a very "standard" thing to say at the end of a letter...[/quote]

Again, in English we tend to omit the pronoun which indicates a certain informality.

The "attendre avec impatience" sounds quite clumsy. I think I would tend to say something like "Dans l'espoir de te voir bientôt"

Richard T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just tor revive this thread for a moment, I asked my Swiss-French daughter-in-law about "wish you were here" and her answer was that if you wanted to convey the same meaning as in English then very often even the French (or at least the Swiss-French) would write "Wish you were here" in English!

We came to the conclusion that "Wish you were here" really means "I'm missing you" and so "Tu me manque" would we a good substitute.

Richard T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...