Clair, are you paying attention? Useful expressions!

[YCCMB]

No , Eric, you haven't answered my question...see my response to Idun earlier. I can see the logic of what you both say, and in an abbreviated form when you miss out the fete bit I am sure that's correct...but having spoken French for well over 40 years now, I can work out most things pretty well. Yet my supplementary question above remains unanswered, not due to me (or any of my friends) overlooking the simplicity of the presence of, and agreement with the word "fete".

For example, my village annual fete is "la fete de la St Louis"

[Cendrillon]

oh Betty, there's always the exception to the rule![blink] isn't there?[8-)]

[mint]

[quote user="ventodue"]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]I don't think people do use the subjunctive that much. I know that when I do use it (not often) people sometimes look at each other with a slightly quizzical "Ooh, hark at her" expression. [/quote]

Same as in English.  Use 'may' and 'might', and some people think you're being ever so 'la-de-da'.  But if you wanna speak yer language proper, then ..

P.s one very common use of the subjunctive in French: "Il faut que j'y aille."

[/quote]

Depends on the context in which you use "may" and "might", surely?

If you use "may" to show doubt or uncertainly or as a guess, then nobody could say you are being la-de-da?  For example, the sun MAY come out, UKIP MAY be the winner.

But I think you are probably thinking about "may" used in the sense of "can", requesting permission to do something perhaps?

Well, in my young days, people DID make a distinction![:D]  Mais oui..............for example, can I leave the table now, can I take the car this evening, etc.

The answer was likely to have been "yes, you certainly can but, whether you MAY or not, is another matter"!

You also knew that any protest would be to no avail[:(]

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Cendrillon"]oh Betty, there's always the exception to the rule![blink] isn't there?[8-)]

[/quote]

Unfortunately, there seem, assuming I am wrong about the rule, to be a lot of exceptions.

Try googling "la fete de la Saint Jean" or "la fete de la Saint Patrick" or any male saint's name you can think of, then let's see if we can work out what is the rule and what may be the exceptions.....?

[Loiseau]

Betty, I wonder if it's the "journée", or the "soirée" of the said saint, so that's why it's feminine?

"La Toussaint", too. :-(

Angela

[YCCMB]

And then you have to factor in Dieu, who remains resolutely masculine, along with his right (or is it left) hand man, le Saint esprit....Maybe ghosts are different. ?

I still don't see it as everyone is trying to convince me it should be. What would be wrong with "la fete du Saint

Machin"? If it's "the festival of the day of" it's back to front, surely, in either language, with just a soupçon of the tortological about it.

[mint]

There probably is some ambiguity surrounding the gender of the sainted Joan.

But, I have seen St Jeanne d'Arc AND Ste Jeanne d'Arc?

This is perhaps not exactly what you are asking about, Betty, and I have never even tried asking as I know the answers would be incomprehensible to me.

I guess that if you are some sort of spirit, your gender is somewhat irrelevant? 

[idun]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]No , Eric, you haven't answered my question...see my response to Idun earlier. I can see the logic of what you both say, and in an abbreviated form when you miss out the fete bit I am sure that's correct...but having spoken French for well over 40 years now, I can work out most things pretty well. Yet my supplementary question above remains unanswered, not due to me (or any of my friends) overlooking the simplicity of the presence of, and agreement with the word "fete".

For example, my village annual fete is "la fete de la St Louis"[/quote]

Most of the rules addle my brain. I have no idea why a language can carve up a body and give each organ etc a gender, makes no sense at all. So I just accept, once I start thinking about any of it, I feel like my head is spinning[8-)]

[mint]

As a by-product of l'affaire Charlie Hebdo, I have learnt a new phrase though it's not with any pleasure that I mention it here.

The phrase is en berne.  I hadn't realised that the French had such a particular expression for "half-mast".

[ericd]

......We also use this expression to ask someone to shut-up ...." Oh, mets la en berne s'il te plait"

[mint]

Eric, bonne année and thank you for this additional use of en berne.

I'm going to try it out on mes potes and see how it's received![:D]

[ericd]

Bonne annee all (sorry). If your friends are more than one person, you would say "oh, mettez-la en berne s'il vous plait"

[NormanH]

I reckon the English equivalent is 'Put a sock in it'...

[mint]

[quote user="NormanH"]I reckon the English equivalent is 'Put a sock in it'...

[/quote]

How I loved that and how I laughed...................

[mint]

This is for everybody who is interested although I hope Norman is around to look at it.

I decided, on balance, to post this here instead of on the "listening thread" because I don't think many people read that one!  Or at least they read it but do not reply on it.

I have found the ultimate contradiction "une infante" this afternoon whilst listening to the radio.  They were discussing Ravel and they played his Pavane pour une enfante défunte and beautifully played it was too.

I had never properly paid attention to the title before this afternoon.  The infante is for infanta as in princess in Spanish.

Don't know many occasions when you would use une infante but you might like to listen to the pavane[:D]  

[NormanH]

This is Ravel himself playing it on a Piano Roll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn6_yT9SKpM&html5=1

Another well-known Pavane by a French composer is that by Fauré.

Usually given these days in the orchetral version it was also given in a grander version with Chorus and dancers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw8PurepHxk

This is the rather mysterious text he set:

C'est Lindor, c'est Tircis et c'est tous nos vainqueurs!

C'est Myrtille, c'est Lydé! Les reines de nos coeurs!

Comme ils sont provocants! Comme ils sont fiers toujours!

Comme on ose régner sur nos sorts et nos jours!

Faites attention! Observez la mesure!

Ô la mortelle injure! La cadence est moins lente!

Et la chute plus sûre! Nous rabattrons bien leur caquets!

Nous serons bientôt leurs laquais!

Qu'ils sont laids! Chers minois!

Qu'ils sont fols! (Airs coquets!)

Et c'est toujours de même, et c'est ainsi toujours!

On s'adore! On se hait! On maudit ses amours!

Adieu Myrtille, Eglé, Chloé, démons moqueurs!

Adieu donc et bons jours aux tyrans de nos coeurs!

[mint]

I am confused by the talk of queens, tyrants and demons...........all GREEK to me, and that's before I can make out why they are referred to as ils?

[NormanH]

Don't forget that if you refer to various things in the plural French often uses the masculin in an old rule that 'le masculin l'emporte sur le féminin' ( odd gender there [:-))] )

However there is another rule known as the règle de proximité which says that the gender of the nearest item should take precedence.

There is debatenowadays about which whether the older rule should be reformed in favour of the règle de proximité.

[idun]

Another well-known Pavane by a French composer is that by Fauré.

One of my favourite pieces, I absolutely love it.

[mint]

[quote user="mint"]As a by-product of l'affaire Charlie Hebdo, I have learnt a new phrase though it's not with any pleasure that I mention it here.

The phrase is en berne.  I hadn't realised that the French had such a particular expression for "half-mast".

[/quote]

Alas, even more vocabulary that I wished I hadn't discovered in the last couple of days:  attentats and cibles.

The first is never going to be good and the latter sounds too much like "sitting ducks" in relation to the Paris attacks[:(]

[ericd]

mint, you can also ask a person "de la mettre en berne" ... asking the person to shut-up.

ie. Mettez la en berne et fichez nous la paix ... or ... Oy, mets la en berne, ca nous fera des vacances.

[mint]

Well, seeing that the forum is in need of a shot in the arm, I have just received an email with a brand new word for me and I am sharing it with you and inviting thoughts/comments, etc;

Du coup je pourrais pas à la marche pour préparer la salle snif

This is from someone that I walk with but we have a concert and chilli con carne (very French[:P]) at the salle and I understand that he has to set out lighting, chairs, tables, etc.

So, I think "snif" means something like more's the pity or tant pis pour moi.  So, have I got it right or are there any advances?

[Loiseau]

Yes, mint, "snif" is the verbal equivalent of the sad face

?, or :-(

Angela

(Just abandoned the woolly one this pm, snif...)

[mint]

Merci, loiseau, et tant pis pour vous![:(]

[Chancer]

hadn't heard of "snif" and I wonder whether its something that is said or perhaps is texto talk but the rest of it makes no sense at all, where is the negation to go with "pas" (ne pas) and isn't it missing a verb, like aller and even then I dont know what à la marche means or was it à la marché  or perhaps je ne pourrais pas marcher?

 

Or have I missed something?

 

Editted, is à la marche meaning (to go) to the walk?