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Will we be welcome?


ali-cat
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We are hopefully moving over to poitou Chatente in late summer - but I have been reading a book "More French Please We're British" by Helena Firth Powell & it has filled me with terror.

She tells stories of how the locals have made so many British expats life a misery & how easy it is to make an enemy, of the locals, by a simple language/translation mistake.  My husband & I are pretty laid back people & would hate to end up in a counrty where we would be facing daily confrontations & hostility.

I know that all French people are not the same & these are probably extreams - but if anyone can assure me that life is good in France, with their French neighbours, I can get back to looking forward to the move, with all the excitment I had been feeling, before reading that damn book!!

Many thanks.

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First of all there is no money in a book which says "nothing happened and it all went well", so that may tell you something.

In all the posts I have read, and in my own experience, the only concern seems to be on the part of some posters, not the French people around them - and in our area we have a lot of English people (Leclerc has an English-speaking checkout line!) and no resentment.

Of course there will always be exceptions and individuals who are unpleasant about foreigners, but in general, in my experience, if you appproach people in a reasonable and friendly manner you will have very few problems.

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I live on the borders of Vienne, Charente and Deux Sevres and have done so for over 10 years. At the time when we came here there were very few foreigners in the region who owned property and even less that lived here all the time, this was OK as we were seen as a bit of a novelty. About 5 years ago when the invasion proper got under way things changed a bit and although it's not in your face there is a fair bit of underlying resentment, many locals are not happy with the situation, but as I said - it's not in your face, or at least rarely. I have had the occasional spat with some French artisans when I have been working on the same property, things like "Why are you working in France, we have unemployment here" and the odd outburst about how their (the French) children can't afford a house anymore since we (foreigners) pushed up the house prices. I would stress that this is not frequent and there is no need for this to make day to day life difficult and the vast majority of immigrants and locals get along in a polite manner.

Don't be put of from coming here, there are always the odd unfriendly people around where ever you live and some of them are Brits!

Chris

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Interesting question this one. We bought a house in the Charente 2 and a half years ago, and are in the process of doing it up. It is in a small village and everyone seems friendly.We have however made an effort to speak French and even if we get it wrong it is greatly appreciated. We have seen people in shops and bars shouting in English, and it is these that the locals dont like, and the more they shout, the more unhelpful people are towards them.

When we had new English neighbours move in, my French neighbour said to me...ah les anglais..at which point we both fell about laughing, but then she told me I wasnt ..les anglais.. as i could speak French, best compliment ever as my French isnt that good by any means, but shows if you try then people accept you for the people you are and not your nationality.

We have French friends who say that a lot of the little village shops, bars and schools would be closed without Foreign imput, not just the English, so some people see it as a good thing.We did feel a bit guilty about buying the house but it had been on the market for years, so obviously no one local wanted it. It is only a holiday at the moment to which we will eventually retire, but we know more people in the village, than we do in the UK.

So forget the book, go and look, see if you like it.

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I think I may of posted this before but we did look at buying in 17(not 16 like you,but it is bordering and although the house prices are a lot cheaper there than were we eventually bought)could not help but notice that most people make a hard living off the land with only the odd seaside town(royan etc)on the tourist beat.The thing that put us off was that for an outsider and a non farmer there was very litte work outside of ruuning gites(which there were plenty 7yrs or so ago),the locals did not seem hostile but they were not over friendly.Myself I think that if anyone is a touch on the sensitive side french life may not be the right thing for them,especially if you do not speak good french.
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bouffon -our experience is like yours ie the neighbours aren't hostile

but not over friendly. I think suspicious would be a good description.

But they do seem to expect us to mix more with other british people as

the french do in uk. As long as you don't expect them to be more

friendly than your old neighbours in uk. And speaking french does help

.Having said that some people on this forum have been overwhelmed by

kindness of the french. Keep a low profile and modest lifestyle. 

Pat.

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When we bought our house 15 years ago we were the only English people in the village (700 inhabitants).  Now there are three other families.  Our experience has been overwhelmingly positive - our neighbours were initially surprised that foreigners should be moving in, but from the first meeting everything has gone well.   That said, we have made every attempt to integrate and now speak good French.  We were introduced to the local MP by our mayor as 'the most French of the English' which we took to be a compliment!   However, the latest arrivals don't speak French and don't seem to understand that things are not the same here as in England and they have not been very well accepted - though I think this is primarily a communication problem.  

Learn the language, be friendly and helpful, and don't spend all your time with other English people, would be my advice. 

 

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I would wholly concur with the point about the language.  We

noticed it recently when visiting France and staying in a B&B owned

by a lovely French couple.  Although our French isn't the best we

tried very hard and had two very relaxed evenings with our hosts with

conversation in a mix of their (not so good) English and our (equally

not so good) French.  On the third night another couple were

staying at the B&B and wouldn't speak any French at all - not even

please and thank you - imho, anyone should be able to manage that

much!  We noticed our hosts were definitely more withdrawn and

less communicative with the newer guests.

Hastobe

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I have also read that book and would take it as "tongue in cheek" and I agree the bad tales just make for better reading.  Where we are I have only found everyone to be pleasant and helpfull, we only speak basic french and I mean basic but they appreciate us trying.  So dont worry to much just try and integrate as much as possible.

 

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All comments so far exactly mirror our experience.

Our neighbours are from Lyon originally (some 200 kms to the north) and say that they still feel like 'foreigners'. As for the builder we are acquainted with, he is a Belgian national, is 31 and has lived here since his parents moved down here lock stock and barrel 25 years ago. They are 'part and parcel' of the village (only 400 souls), yet when Gabriel wanted to buy some land to build his own house, the shutters went up. "Only for born & bred!"

He found a piece of land and bought it (from a another Belgian), but when will he really be accepted?  And his kids - born & bred, eh?

Moral of the story is that it's fine, but it takes time - probably longer than most of us have got.  Do try with the use of the French. Oh, and keep in with the secretary at the Mairie - she's the one with the real power (as always!) 

 

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Most of the inhabitants of our hamlet are from one family - of the others, 1 aged 50+ was born here and another (Swiss) spent 28 years renovating his house. Though accepted we will never expect to be anything other than newcomers.

On the day of our purchase the vendors introduced us to all and sundry, standing nattering in the middle of the road and I chatted for almost an hour, mostly in English, to the farmer who is now "headman". But after that he said "now that you live in France you must learn French so we will speak only in French" which we do most of the time.

The first inkling I had that our neighbours and their family and friends speak English came on the day of the headman's birthday bash in August 2004 when they spoke more and more in English as the evening wore on and the wine flowed. But next day, back to French. But for what ever reason the breadlady etc in our nearby town have begun to speak to me in English - perhaps they are sick of my ruining their language - it is as if they have realised that we really ARE here to stay and they need no longer risk embarassment if they struggle in a foreign language.

Kind and generous people are kind and generous people, whatever nationality. IMHO the key to acceptance and perhaps one day friendship is to mix, learn their language and try to be as kind and generous as they are. Asking for their help and advice seems to assist in this process rather than inhibit but do try and give something in return.

Di was recently asked to help a neighbour's daughter with her English - stunning 16 year old so shy and innocent as to be unbelievable (hence Di not I perhaps) - and of course payment was not offerred, sought or even mentioned though 6 fresh Rocamadour AOC cabecous (mother works for local cheese man) were handed over on week 2 or 3.

I firmly believe that you should only get out what you put in - so integration is in our own hands.

John

not

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You'll get out of french life what you put in. Books like that are only written to make money and it seems that one only refers to a certain area. We've never had hostility towards us because, and so many people say to our faces," you are not english you are part of our community because you didn't hide away and ignore us and your children are more in touch with what goes on than those born here". I do find however, there is an underlying hostility to wealthy brits who buy houses that stand empty most of the year especially here by the sea when local people could have bought them and raised a family and I don't get involved in those debates but on the whole, the most back stabbing comes from other brits against brits and I have seen a lot of that between some couples here,thankfully we kept our distance until they moved on. As long as you treat a person as you would,your own family and be genuine and honest, they will take you for what you are whether poor or rich.
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[quote user="Iceni"]

I firmly believe that you should only get out what you put in - so integration is in our own hands.

[/quote]

This says it all really. The more effort you make to be involved in the

life of your commune, the more easy you should find it to become part

of the fixtures & fittings. This would apply wherever you move, not

just to France. I would certainly avoid speaking English (even to those

who can speak English) - making life difficult for  yourselves in

the first  instance will make it far easier in the longer term.

How "accepted" you will feel is highly subjective: in a village where

there is a relatively high proportion of "incomers" (French or

otherwise) you may feel like "one of us" surprisingly quickly; in a

village dominated by a few famillies that have been there since the

dawn of recorded time, possibly never.

None of our French neighbours attempt to speak English to us, though

some are highly proficient: one mother at the girls' school has English

to degree level; another is the English speaking representative at an

estate agent's office. A close friend of mine spent six months in the

US learning how to grow maize (drop it in a hole; cover it over; water

it - there may be more to it than that, but that's the gist) and has a

fine grasp of Anglo-Saxon vernacular (I can just imagine all these guys

in baseball caps in Minasota spending their working days teaching a

French kid how to swear in American while the crops whither in the

fields), but never addresses a word in English to me.

EDIT: As an after thought, personally I would resist any temptation to

have Sky or other English language TV in France. The reasons for this

are twofold:

1) However unspeakable French TV might be (and it really can plumb new

depths of awfulness and banality) it does have the virtue of being in

French;

2) It is all too easy to retreat into a  nice comfortable cocoon

of familiar culture rather that getting out and getting involved.

I'm sure that there are plenty of people who would disagree with this view. [um] [li]

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[quote user="jond"][2) It is all too easy to retreat into a  nice comfortable cocoon of familiar culture rather that getting out and getting involved.

I'm sure that there are plenty of people who would disagree with this view. [um] [li]
[/quote]

I have to admit that the longer I stay the less I get involved.  I'm just one of the crowd now, don't need to be seen, don't need to be heard, or at least no more or less than any of the other 2000 people in the village (all French apart from us, I think).

In fact, now that I'm "integrated", I find that I get quite twitchy when Brits come to visit us.  They all seem so rich and happy!   They go out to Starbucks together!   They go out for meals!   They go to pubs!   They go to evening classes and make friends!   They have disposable income!   They go on foreign holidays!  They have happy memories from schooldays! 

[:)]

 

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Know exactly what you mean SB. We always feel like the poor relations when family come or ring us and tell us what they've bought and where they have been and what they are earning - its like winning the lottery to us on french income. However, I don't know if you feel like me but I have found that I really do appreciate everything that we buy especially for the house these days and no crédit cards to pay off as we have saved and bought it - it really does feel special and you look after it better as well.
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We speak when we see our neighbours , not that often in the winter, but they are a lot older than us and we do not visit each others homes etc. My childrens school friends come round fairly often and we go to the odd things at school that take our fancy. I am sure that more people are aware of us than we are of them by virtue of the fact we are the only english in the village. If i go for a walk I stop and chat to people and we have a couple of friends our age who we socialise with now and again because we like each others company. I don't think that I will have the depth of friendships that I had in the UK but that's more to do with my age!

We haven't actively sought to get involved with everything in the commune, because that is not how I am and I didn't do that in the UK so why start doing it here? 

To the original poster,  learn the language and then just be yourself ! Some may like you, some may not - and they will probably be the ones who will have never even spoken to you!

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We just live our lives over here.....we are not pally, pally with our neighbours, but know they would always be there if needed, and I have helped them with English job applications, translated directions to the Chambre d'Hote etc, without thinking what am I going to get in return. The children go to school here and have friends over and vice versa, and I help on occasional school trips, fetes etc My children and husband play table-tennis for the town team and my youngest plays the trumpet in the Orchestra.We have French friends and English friends and French TV and Sky. We use French or English Artisans, depending on who does the best job for the best price, and my husband brings back English food regularly from the UK, but we also love many French dishes (apart from andouillettes!). I read French newspapers and the Times, and try to keep up with what is going on so that I can have decent conversations with people. 

In short, this is our home, and we live here quite happily, not trying too hard to fit in, but not alienating ourselves in a british 'clique', either. Just live your lives, speak French (essential) and enjoy yourselves!!

Chris

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We are the same really although having no children here is probably a disadvantage in that we tend to meet fewer people in our day to day lives.

We live in a rural hamlet and get on well with our French neighbours who speak no English. They eat with us and we eat with them at least monthly, and have also benen invited quite regularly for aperos when they have other friends round. Before we moved in here they had Welsh friends who moved back to the UK and through our neighbours we bought some furniture from them. Our neighbours make us laugh with all their tongue in cheek jokes about the government and also French rural life - they moved from Amiens 27 years ago, and say that they still haven't been accepted here, so there is no hope for us!

Although I regularly use La Poste and the boulangerie in the Village, and also have a couple of French clients I garden for there, I don't actively "put myself about" too much, as the couple of Brits who do, are laughed at by the local French. I have integrated as much here as I did in the town I lived in in Hertforshire four years ago, and probably as much as I want to. I have a close circle of friends of all nationalities and I have a chat with the folks I know, whereever they hail from.

However, we have a bread van deliver daily and if they are short of bread, I notice that it's always me that gets left out, never my neighbours! Is it becasue I'm English, or is it because I have a car and can go get my own? I wonder!
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I live at least 1Km from the nearest village, nearest house

half a Km away – a bit isolated.  The

word “integration” means many different things to different people.  I’ve never bothered with it myself.  For me I live here and have no intention of

spending my time to convince anybody what a nice chap I am.  Take me as I come.  I will go to events that interest me and ignore things that

don’t.  Many things I do are quite

remote from the local village (as there is no airport in the village !).

When I moved here I was just moving area within Europe.  I could have moved further away (distance

wise e.g. Scotland).

I have never had any real problem with locals.  Some are more friendly than others (just as

I used to find when living in the UK). 

Those who are less friendly are normally like that because of language

difficulties and for some reason it makes them feel awkward.

 

Say hello to people, do what you would anywhere, join in

things would are interested in. 

Basically be yourself.  Most or

all enjoy life and don’t worry about what everybody is thinking about you

because, in practice they have far more important things to think about.

 

I did read the book mentioned at the beginning of this

thread and whilst I found the writing style easy to read (it did not take me

long to read it all), her experiences as in the book were nothing like my

own.  As people say, maybe area, maybe

different people or maybe “artistic license” (“nothing happened” does not sell particularly

well).

Ian

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Re the bread thing,do you order your bread from the bread van?Normally we buy our bread from champion intermarche etc but because I am on my own for a few days ( more than planned due to ryanair,bless `em,not knocking them)I have not felt like getting the car out so popped round to the village shop,only to be told very nicely that all the bread she had left was ordered and that the spare was sold,ok a small private shop cannot afford to be left with old un sellable bread.
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As others have said, I think it will depend on yourselves and also where you move to. Like everywhere else there are places that are friendlier than others. We have found folks fine in the Charente. We have most certainly not found them to be fine everywhere we have visited.

And as others have said, learning the language is the key. It is just so important.

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Pretty much as everyone else has said. We live in a town in Brittany and we haven't been welcomed with open arms, but then neither are the French families that move into the area.

We've made friends, both British and French, but noticeably the French friends we have made are either new to the area themselves or have moved into the area from elsewhere.

The 'locals' have established networks and although they are polite and will exchange pleasantries it goes no further than that. Our immediate neighbours have always been welcoming and very curious about us.

The problems we have experienced have been with some other British people. Some have been too keen to be our 'best' friends overnight which we find a little unsettling. Also, we have found that the 'keeping up with the Jones' attitude has travelled over from the UK with some ex-pats here. Our lives here are quite similar to our life in the UK, after all we haven't changed, we are happiest with just having a few close friends.

We are polite and speak French when we can, we don't expect anyone to speak English. We use local services but we are not overly friendly.

We haven't experienced any hostility but I don't know if this is partly because we are Celts living in Brittany. I have heard some hostility expressed by the Bretons toward the English and Parisians - but mainly where they are second home owners.

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