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Romanians :Do they try this on in France ?


Frederick
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I haven't read all of this thread and certainly none of the links provided, but it takes me back to my childhood years in the '50's and realising that there were an awful lot of black faces around. It was, of course, the start of the Afro-Caribbean influx which led to employment driving buses and doing the tasks that others didn't want to do in the NHS.

The final realisation that they were here to stay was such sayings as " I don't mind them but I wouldn't want my daughter marrying one". And we all know where that has ended.

As Brits we do finally accept immigrants. In the last town in England where we lived there was a large established population of Poles and what a nice bunch they were.

Now don't get me started on the (mainly elderly) peoples' attitude in France to immigrants.  [:@]

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[quote user="Quillan"]

I love it, smugness of people on this forum. It wouldn't be so bad if people put their case by stating facts and not fiction that they have read in newspapers that get some form of satisfaction in winding people up.[/quote]

 

You asked for evidence........

[quote user="Quillan"]

I know from the work my wife has done that the amount of appeals against deportation of immigrants has gone up in leaps and bounds over the last few years. In fact it would be true to say that there is like a whole new industry of solicitors now who specialise in these cases. I could quote statistics but if they don't meet peoples beliefs then they are of course not to be trusted so I won't bother.

[/quote]

 

Why has your wife's workload increased so much? [8-)]

I don't need to trawl through endless conflicting reports until I find one 'I like', surely you have provided more than enough evidence to contradict your own statements! [:P][:D]

 

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It was very interesting discussing the situation in Romania with a close friend who works for a UK charity that supports the very poor and destitute there.  She told me she finds them (i.e. Romanians) exhausting.  Her charity provides support by way of food packages, clothes etc and also tries to help them become self sufficient.  Despite receiving many food parcels (and not being employed) she cannot persuade any of the beneficiaries to 'pay it forward' a little by helping the charity workers.  They just expect to passively sit back and be 'done to'.  The 'chicken' project they tried to introduce failed - dismally.  The idea was that the charity provided X chickens.  The recipient could keep half the eggs for the first so many weeks - the remainder being given back to the charity for them to sell to finance the next lot of chickens.  After an initial period they could keep all the eggs.  After much discussion about why they couldn't give back the eggs (various random reasons) they announced that, in any case, in 4 weeks they would kill all the hens.  Horrified, my friend asked why.  The response - because it's November and we always kill chickens in November.  No amount of reasoning would persuade them otherwise and the chicken project failed.  Other projects have met similar fates.

Mrs R51

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[quote user="ebaynut"][quote user="Quillan"]

I love it, smugness of people on this forum. It wouldn't be so bad if people put their case by stating facts and not fiction that they have read in newspapers that get some form of satisfaction in winding people up.[/quote]

 

You asked for evidence........

[quote user="Quillan"]

I know from the work my wife has done that the amount of appeals against deportation of immigrants has gone up in leaps and bounds over the last few years. In fact it would be true to say that there is like a whole new industry of solicitors now who specialise in these cases. I could quote statistics but if they don't meet peoples beliefs then they are of course not to be trusted so I won't bother.

[/quote]

 

Why has your wife's workload increased so much? [8-)]

I don't need to trawl through endless conflicting reports until I find one 'I like', surely you have provided more than enough evidence to contradict your own statements! [:P][:D]

[/quote]

She' a court stenographer. Yes the amount of appeals have gone up and less than 10% on average are rejected, most of the deportations are carried out within 48 hours. What I am saying is that whilst a lot of immigrants arrive the amount that are deported has risen by a very large amount over the last few years. Its not quite as easy to get in to the UK as newspapers would have you believe. In 2008 the Border Agency as its now called spent £8,227,553 on air tickets deporting people, this increased by a staggering 48% in 2009 to a total of £12,176,778. If you say the average ticket cost per person is £350 (that's my guess and seems reasonable to me) that's around 35,000 people deported (source UKBA).

Because the success rate of appealing against deportation is now so low these appeals are funded by UK charities or the individual and not by the state (you need to have a certainty of 75 to 80% of winning to get state funding these days). As you rightly say if you only read the newspapers the reports conflict endlessly so how do you know you are right? My guess is you simply can't find the data to back what you are saying or have and realised your wrong. [:$]

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As asylum seekers are required, under international law, to seek asylum in the first designated 'safe country' they come to it's difficulty to envisage how any asylum claims are truly admissible.  Unless, of course, we have an influx of refugees arriving by private jet??

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[quote user="Richard51"]It was very interesting discussing the situation in Romania with a close friend who works for a UK charity that supports the very poor and destitute there.  She told me she finds them (i.e. Romanians) exhausting.  Her charity provides support by way of food packages, clothes etc and also tries to help them become self sufficient.  Despite receiving many food parcels (and not being employed) she cannot persuade any of the beneficiaries to 'pay it forward' a little by helping the charity workers.  They just expect to passively sit back and be 'done to'.  The 'chicken' project they tried to introduce failed - dismally.  The idea was that the charity provided X chickens.  The recipient could keep half the eggs for the first so many weeks - the remainder being given back to the charity for them to sell to finance the next lot of chickens.  After an initial period they could keep all the eggs.  After much discussion about why they couldn't give back the eggs (various random reasons) they announced that, in any case, in 4 weeks they would kill all the hens.  Horrified, my friend asked why.  The response - because it's November and we always kill chickens in November.  No amount of reasoning would persuade them otherwise and the chicken project failed.  Other projects have met similar fates.

Mrs R51

[/quote]

OK I am wrong. There you have the  proof ( a friend of a friend told me thet ...) that Romanians ( that generalisation again) are simple-minded.

I suppose that the 'other projects' included Dacia cars?

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[quote user="NormanH"]

OK I am wrong. There you have the  proof ( a friend of a friend told me thet ...) that Romanians ( that generalisation again) are simple-minded.

I suppose that the 'other projects' included Dacia cars?

[/quote]

Norm - as I have learned to treat your comments with a great deal of humour and a very large pinch of salt.....I'll ignore that remark!  I actually don't care a fiddlers what not about the whole Romanian argument - I just thought it was a rather bizarre coincidence that I had had the conversation with Michelle (my 'phantom' friend) only a week ago....

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Richard51 - your friend worked for a charity that dealt with very poor people in Romania- part of the failure of any charity project is sometimes due to a lack of understanding of the culture, however well intentioned the actions. Imagine a Romanian Doctor coming to work in a poor inner city estate of some of our large cities- do you think they might not get frustrated too. I have taught in the UK in 5 different schools - and I can assure you that the major problems we had with some kids were not from immigrant families, but British kids from some of the Estates- where parents had been on the dole for generations and (for all sorts of reasons) had absolutely no ambition or apparent desire to improve their lot. Just because I have worked with those kids and families, I wouldn't dream of labelling the British nation lazy, etc. The reason they killed the chickens in November is traditionally because no food or shelter was available during the harsh winters, and hens would stop laying anyway - same used to happen in Switzerland with cattle and sheep. It shows that proper research into traditions and realities of a community must be studied properly before setting up such projects. If that had been done, some hens and a few cockerels could have been taken in by the charity for the winter seasons, and the whole project started again in Spring.

There are indeed problems with immigration is all West European countries, and in Switzerland we have more than double the immigrant ratio of the UK. And it would be folly to ignore them and not to try and solve them. But racist, I will never be. The UK would grind to a halt without its immigrants, and so would Switzerland and France.

My husband's family emigrated from South Africa at the time of apartheid, and they did need help at the start. But all three children did fantastically well in their education, against all odds, and all contributed enormously during their working lives. It was Tebbut who said 'get on your bike' - and this is exactly what I would do if I lived in a country where I felt my children did not have a chance of a good education and a future. I wouldn't sit there and wallow - and this is exactly what immigrants are doing.

Which does NOT mean that abuse must be tolerated and not addressed.

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Of course I am an inmmigrant, however, if I want to be a foreigner then I shall be one HERE rather than in the place I was born. Moreover, we are taking nothing from the french system because we have paid nothing into it since we are relative new arrivals. You cannot say that about those who arrive knowing only the words "DSS"
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[quote user="krusty"]

[quote user="Will"]Chessie, Krusty, Framboise et al...

Don't forget that you are immigrants too.


[/quote]

Yes but I have not broke into your house to live there because I dont want to pay rent .

[/quote]

So we have one reported in the newspaper and everyone thinks all immigrants do this. If you could find 10,000 documented immigrants that have done this then your left with quite a few of the 1.5M who don't.

I can remember the Poles (the first lot), the Hungarians and the first from the West Indies coming to the UK and how my father moaned about them taking jobs. Funny thing was, which I didn't understand at the time being too young, that in the case of those from the West Indies that's why we had them come over, to fill the jobs nobody wanted. Its the same with the Asians in Bradford and Leeds, bought to the UK to work in the mills because people either didn't want to do the work or there were not enough people. Now we have groups like the 'new' Poles going to the UK, everyone moans but they are quite happy to employ them on the black to do work on their houses. Remember the Latvians who came to the UK because they read that you could get a cooked chicken from the supermarket for £2. It was the same newspapers then that peddle the same rubbish now, same old story, different nationality.

I don't have a problem with immigrants anywhere, its the way of the world these days but what I do have a problem with is those that don't contribute much as in the same way I have with Brits in France who don't contribute. The way you know if they contribute is simple, if they pay tax then they can stay and have the same rights as everyone else, if they don't then send them back. The legislation is there to implement this under EU law, you can't blame the immigrants, blame the government for deciding not to implement it. And please don't generalise when making comments about immigrants, they are not all the same, you can't blame them or tarnish them all with the same brush all because of a minority.

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It seems appropriate at this point in the discussion, to quote from "The Daily Mail Dictionary":

Illegal Immigrant: A person of non-white appearance, who doesn't speak English, who steals money from the honest, law abiding tax payer, and who gets a million pounds in benefits each day, plus a free house. And a mobile phone and laptop (that was in a Birmingham BNP leaflet but it was probably in the Mail as well).

Immigrants: 1, plural, Come in one variety only: fraudulent spongers leaching off MY taxes and becoming millionaires while WE work to pay for them. There is no such thing as an immigrant with a life like mine. 2, singular, A person moving to the UK solely to be ‘showered’ with benefits, receive a free council house and entitlement to ‘yuman rites’. If the immigrant does decide to work they will be stealing a job from a hard-working, dedicated and highly-skilled British worker by working for a pittance. The immigrant will then send every penny of their salary (without paying tax, naturally) back to their relations in whatever rubbish little country they came from.

Read more: http://www.angrymob.uponnothing.co.uk/daily-mail-dictionary#ixzz0jZGjZvSs

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I find the superior knowledge of some forum members does inspire me sometimes. It was of great help when one of my wife's nephews lost his job in the UK. I advised him to enquire about the free mobiles and cars, which I read on here were available to all unemployed immigrants who wanted them. Unfortunately I can only assume he must have the "wrong" sort of immigrant, as he was refused, and told in no uncertain terms he'd get absolutely nothing, and to s*d off back to France. He found another job within a couple of weeks, so I'm afraid he's just another sponging immigrant, stealing British jobs. I do hope the excellent advise continues though, and can anyone advise, for future reference, are there other benefits, to which I can direct them?

As for the OP question. Yes, it would happen in France. In fact, it would be guaranteed to happen, then getting them out (legally) will take many, many months. I've repeated on here, and a landlord in France, just what risks you are taking, and "squattors" are another fact of life. I would most strongly advise against using illegal methods, the Yuman Rites Na2is insure the penalties are particularly draconian. The Socialist Do-gooders are alive and well in France. They need a good dose of the Blessed St Margaret of Grantham.

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That link is brilliant...............................my parents, and grand-parents to an absolute inch. And my FiL, and MiL.......and they're French. I conclude therefore (on the basis of no evidence whatsoever) that it's a generational thing[:D]

 

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If you are going to quote from that particular source, don't forget this definition:

Ex-pat: 1,

A fine upstanding citizen who lives in a Brits-only ghetto, drinks in

the Red Lion pub, reads British newspapers, won't eat "that foreign

muck" and shouts in English as there's no need to learn the local

language. Can often be found on websites bemoaning immigrants' failure

to integrate into British society without a hint of irony or

self-awareness.

2, The person that knows how the

‘once-Great-Britain’ (© Mail commentators and writers) has gone to the

dogs/to hell in a handcart, even though – as they joyfully state in

their post – they ‘have escaped to Spain/Australia/ France/New Zealand’ 5

years ago. Such people also bash immigrants without any awareness that

they are also immigrants in another country. Littlejohn, writing from

Florida, can also be described as an ex-pat (amongst other things).

Ex-pats are remarkably concerned with how British taxpayers money

is spent, considering that they no longer pay British tax, or use any

services provided by the British Government. They are also remarkably

concerned with how often bins are emptied in suburbs across the UK,

considering – of course – that they don’t live here anymore. Indeed,

readers may often wonder at the acute eyesight and sense of smell that

Littlejohn possesses when he so despairingly describes the sights and

smells of McBroon’s Britain, perched as he is thousands of miles away in

Florida. See also Immigrants

or Illegal

Immigrants
.

Read more: http://www.angrymob.uponnothing.co.uk/daily-mail-dictionary#ixzz0jZKCCmc3

There are plenty of immigrants into France who are prepared to take from the French health and social security system without paying into it, claiming that they paid taxes for 40-odd years in Britain so that entitles them, and indeed "...have no intention of respecting [French] ways of life, history,

tradition or culture." Mentioning no names of course.

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@Swissie

Her point was that they wouldn't help themselves, even in small ways.  She felt that the impact of the Nicolae Ceausescu years had been to remove all concept of self sufficiency, pride, daily structure etc.  They couldn't cope with the concept of a working day, routine, organisation, planning, thinking for themselves.  They no longer had the capacity to do anything other than 'be done to'.

PS this is Mrs R51 - R51 is safely ensconced at work...[:D]
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[quote user="Will"]

There are plenty of immigrants into France who are prepared to take from the French health and social security system without paying into it, claiming that they paid taxes for 40-odd years in Britain so that entitles them, and indeed "...have no intention of respecting [French] ways of life, history, tradition or culture." Mentioning no names of course.

[/quote]

Yes Will and idiots like me who believe that wherever you live you have to pay tax etc end up paying for this shower. You also didn't mention that when their 'mates' come over for a 'free' holiday they are quite happy to sit in the local bar telling them how wonderful France is and how they get excellent health care etc and it doesn't cost them a bean. Having been an immigrant in another country for some time now its very interesting to see things from the other perspective and at times to experience them also. The main reason I believe you can't tar all the immigrants with the same brush is because I now know what it feels like and its quite humbling in a way as well as making one feel quite angry at times with your fellow countrymen (and women).

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I'm horrifed by Chessies post, to think that it's acceptable in this day and age to write such racism ....

Thankfully I would guess that Chessie and his fellow bigots can be classifed as 'old', People of my generation (born in the 60's )generally are more accepting of peoples right to live, in fact I have never met anyone with such venom (thank god).

I accept the argument that no one should spnge of their adopted country, as Will says there are loads in France that do. It is simply not as easy as the gutter press or BNP would have you beleive to gain access to benefits in the UK, having returned here with my OH unemployed I can tell you he did not get anything from the government apart from help to find a job which he did very quickly. As velcorin says above to suggest a mobile phone etc can be obtained is frankly horse poop peddled by racists.

Now Chessie take you own advice and grow up. Open your eyes and accept the world is changing, globalisation is here today and it wont be going backwards.

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Panda - be careful - your comment is too personal - you are making assumptions and you are totally wrong.

You know NOTHING about me, my age, my origins, my religion or anything else.

I am not 'filled with venom' or 'racist' as you describe.

I have friends, and grew up with - people of different nationalities.

What I am furious about is the huge numbers of immigrants who HAVE upset the balances and plans of local authorities, housing associations, hospitals, education, transport - the whole system of the UK is taking a terrible strain because of the NUMBERS involved.   NUMBERS Panda - not Race.

There is a huge problem with the welfare system in the UK - and  it definitely needs sorting to get the feckless idle white working class council living thickos out of their beds (or their girl-friends beds), off their backsides and they should be given jobs in the community which would require the useless lumps of lard to get up, get to work and have a set daily discipline,.

And an end to the 'single mothers' career choices - that's a disastrous situation for young girls, and young children, and needs drastic change.

There - that's me talking about the white, working class thickos....I doubt whether you'd say that was racist would you.

You may not spend much time in the UK - but there are definitely 'scoungers' who HAVE come the UK for the easier life-style, and work on the black.  And who are criminals in their own country - and continue their criminal way of life in the UK.

As for some of the comments about being 'immigrants in France' - yes, I accept that point.  BUT - I'm not here taking from the French working people;   I'm paying my way, and taxes, here.

As for the NHS - let's not forget that those of us who have contributed over the years in the UK, that once we 'join' the French system - are subsidised by the UK's International Health Service to the sum of £4000 per person per year.  

Can you confirm that for all the immigrants who come to the UK  and use our International Health Service that all the immigrants' countries are paying similar yearly payments to our UK Government every year ?  In which case would someone please tell me how much the French Government reimburses the UK Government for every French person living and working in the UK and who is on a GPs list, and receives medical/hospital treatment in the UK ?

And WHY should the UK become 'multi-cultural' and 'celebrate diversity' and welcome Globalisation.   The Greens don't like 'globalisation' - and they're in favour of all the lovely ecologically sound things like wind-farms aren't they ?   So if the Greenies don't like 'globalisation' then maybe it is not such a good idea after all ?

What's so marvellous about 'multi-cultural' and 'diversity'....but if it is good then maybe the sneerers on this Forum who mock the English papers, the English shops, the English people - should learn to celebrate the 'multi-cultural' and 'diversity' that we English/British/UKers bring to France !!!   Or is that asking for too much tolerance towards your fellow countryman ?

I'm off for a walk in the sunshine....

Chessie

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Apologies Chessie  I got my impression of your leanings from your post when you stated that 'the white population' were being badly affected by increased immigration, not the British or other term for the people who live in the UK.

I live in the UK by the way these days so yes I do spend a lot of time here.

I personally never worried about people using British shops in France, it's the double standards that people object to,  as in complaining that imigrants dont integrate then turning up in France and doing exactly the same thing and banging on my door when they need a plumber or other emergnecy haivng lived in the country for over a year and not speaking a word of French.  That was annoying, otherwise if you like marmite you like marmite why not buy it in an english shop. 

The other one that annoyed me were those complaining about something happening in Britain when the same was happening in France if only they would learn the language and read the newspaper or watch the news. 

I think your question about the french reciprical health agreement is not really applicable.  Although I think they do pay something, the French come to England for work in the main and so are entitled to join the system by means of the NI they pay (as I was when in France by paying cotisations).  The French do not retire to the UK not in any numbers as far as I know.

 

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This was the bit:

[quote user="chessie"]
 the massive sudden increase in numbers has worked to the disadvantage of the ordinary white working class workers for jobs, housing, education and health care.

Chessie
[/quote]

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