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Bread Maker


Coco
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I recently purchased, for 12€ and 7000 loyalty card points, a breadmaker from Champion.  I followed the instructions to the letter to make "pain francais" and it sort of turned out OK.  Not what I would call pain francais, but quite edible.  It weighs a ton! Looks like a cross between sponge cake and crumpet, has almost the consistancy of a crumpet and tastes strange but pleasantly nice.  However, it is obviously not right.  I used Francine farine toute usage which the recipe recommended (or alternatively farine a pain) and dried yeast.  I kept the salt well away from the yeast and did everything exactly as I was told, ie put the ingredients in the machine in the right order and turned it on.

Can anyone tell me why I have such a strange "bread".  Is it the flour, is it the quantity of flour, or one of the other ingredients?  There is even a trouble-shooting section in the instruction booklet but in true French style it suggests that if your bread is too heavy (which is probably the nearest description amongst the faults that I can find) then try a) putting in less flour next time, or b) less water, c) less salt d) less sugar e) more yeast.  So in other words, the proportions of ingredients weren't right but we haven't got a clue which was wrong!!

I then made a walnut, raisin and cinnamon loaf, which was more successful and again quite palatable but still just slightly stodgy.  Again, I used the farine toute usage.  Should I perhaps be using a stronger flour?  Someone told me that she has never had any success with white bread in her bread-maker but that the complet always turns out OK - but then that would be denser anyway.

The other thing that seems to me a huge design fault is that the stirring paddle remains inside the loaf after it is cooked and you have to scoop it out with a hook thing, which obviously means a couple of slices of the bread have a big hole in them.  Is this normal or is it because it's a low-end machine?

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My husband is in charge of the bread making machine but yes the paddle still has to be hooked out, luckily ours is nearly always at the bottom. I have a feeling he adds vitamin C, but I could be wrong,  I think we cut down on the salt too.

Its well worth while IMHO, you do know exactly what has gone into your loaf !

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You probably want to use a bread flour, or, if it's available here, try adding a tablespoon of essential gluten.  The vitamin C (or ascorbic acid) also is a good idea as that helps the yeasat to proof better.

Personally, when I had my bread machine, I used it for mixing and proofing, but I always formed the loaves by hand and baked them in the oven.  I preferred the results and no mixing blade in the final product.

PG

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    Does this mean your not using the proper bread flour. They do a selection of white, , campagne, multi cereals, seigle and brioche. All work perfectly well for me. If you would like me to scan and email you the recipes i can, but my guess is the flour you are using. 

RH, the vitamin C is for wholewheat bread to help it rise.(I think)

Edit: well the recipies only call for it for the wholewheat!

Louise

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Your last question first:

My Panasonic (recommended best buy from Good Mousekeeping and others in the UK) does leave the paddle inside the bread. I take the bowl out and just wait a couple of minutes before up-ending it and giving it a good shake. The bread drops out, the paddle stays inside the bowl and the bread has only a small indent at the bottom.

Next: heavy bread

I always check after the first kneading, as each flour has its own characteristics. On the same setting, I can get a much dryer looking dough with locally milled flour than with a Francine bread flour.

I have found that I get different depending on the type of yeast used:

  • levure traditionnelle de boulanger gives me a well risen bread
  • levure rapide tends to rise quickly then flop a bit, so I use that for the quick programs which only require one kneading and raise

I also use more yeast (2 sachets for 500g flour) than I used in the UK.

If making a basic white/brown bread, I use yeast, flour, salt and very cold water.

The machine brings the whole thing to temperature before starting to mix.

I know from previous discussions here that people tend to buy the cheapest flour, but I do find that paying a little bit more does make a difference. I buy Francine bread flour and a locally milled flour.

I've also successfully used Lidl bread mixes in the bread machine.

I make bread almost every day, either fully in the machine, using its timer for lower electricity cost, or in the oven in the baguette mould I recently bought.

Most successful and popular bread in my house is (strangely enough) the Lidl Ciabatta bread mix...

Keep trying, you'll get to know when it's right...
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Yes I get bread that would drown the ducks too since I came here.  I used the most expensive I could find as well. So I will try a bit more yeast.  But it gets expensive all this experimenting.   The best for me is making pizza bases with it.

Georgina

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Bread mixer (and maker) still in UK, so cannot speak about Fr flour, but all my first attemps were heavy etc.  Tried several variants from changes in mix, to bought in mixes (which work OK) though paddle nearly always remains in the cooked loaf, so now I find best results from using half white / half wholemeal strong bread flour, half salt and half sugar, using the white bread recipe, but only using the machine to prepare the dough, (paddle again usually left in, but easy to remove) then I reform into loaf tin, leave to rise well again, then bake in oven as normal.  This gives me a nice, not too heavy, sensible shape for sandwich making.  And so far, no complaints!  When in France, I just buy baguettes for me, or pain complet, and sliced white (uugh!) for hubby.  When the bread machine finally arrives in France, it will be interesting to go through the same testing and proving procedure again!

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Ours (made by LG) is usually OK with French flour, the Francine range of bread flour seems to work OK. Our best results for France though also come from Lidl bread mixes, believe it or not (if you can't get proper granary-type bread flour or mixes from England, which is the real answer).
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Thanks.  It seems as though the general concensus is the flour, which is what I thought.  I bought both the toute usage and farine a pain because the recipes said you could use either but I think I shall use the Francine bread flour next and report back!  Failing that, our baker sells flour so perhaps that would be the best option.

I also thought, when looking in the little window that the dough looked quite "wet".  It's years since I made any bread by hand but it looked as though it would be pretty gungy if you tried to pick it up!

I can't say that the shape of the loaves are particularly useful either, so I had thought about whether it was possible to take it out after the mixing and proving stage and cook it in the oven.  There's a programme for pizza dough (and others) which takes 1.5 hours; the other bread programmes seem to vary between 2.5 and 3 hours but obviously the bread doesn't take 1.5 hours to cook, so do the bread doughs take longer to mix and prove?  How do you  know at which point to catch it before it switches to cooking mode?  I'm not aware that my machine tells you when it's starting to cook. [8-)]  How long and what temperature would I cook a 675g loaf in an electric oven?

Soooo many questions.  My OH is revelling in the fact that at last I've found something in the kitchen that I haven't got a clue about and that didn't work first time [6]

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It very much depends on the machine you're using.

Mine has different programs which allow me to mix and bake the bread in the machine, other that will just produce dough that I can remove and shape myself, then bake in the oven... and then some more!

What machine do you have (make, model...)?
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Oh, as I said, I got it with my Champion points.  It's a "Team" machine, which seems to be the brand that most of their cadeaux are made by.  They have all been pretty reliable so far, mini hachoir, electric hand whisk, blender - but I think they're all pretty basic.  Although having said that I do have several programmes for the bread: Standard, francais, brioché, rapide, ultra rapide, pizza, cake and I can set the croute to clair, moyen or foncé.
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One of the things about recipes and bread is that the measurements really are only approximate; far more so than in other forms of baking such as cakes.  The weather, the individual batch of flour, the temperature in the room, etc., all can have a huge difference on the way things work out.

That was one of the reasons that I never entirely trusted the bread machine and used it instead of a large mixer rather than as an automatic machine.   You just have to keep an eye on things and get to know the feel of the dough...

PG

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Thanks everyone. You've all given me a lot more confidence.  Interesting that the Team bread-makers don't look anything like mine but the Morphy Richards looks identical, with all the buttons in the same place and exactly the same programmes, except for programme 12 (extra time).  It looks like I can just put the machine onto pizza dough setting if I want to cook it in the oven then.

The Morphy Richards booklet is really helpful - looks like it's word for word the same as mine (as I've translated it anyway!)   Just don't quite understand on page 10 why anyone would want to clean the machine with paint thinner!!! [:D]

It's interesting too that the "team" breadmaker looks absolutely identical to the Morphy Richards one, because my other Champion "buys" are in fact Morphy Richards and the design is so similar.  My husband wondered whether it was "badge engineering" - apparently the practice of a well-known company producing a product for someone else, like Bahlsen make M&S's luxury chocolate biscuits!

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Mine is a Morphy Richards.  I 'do' my bread on 12.  Leave it in until it is well risen, take it out, knock it back and then mould.  I use Francine bread flour or flour I have brought back with me.  I have bought the Lidl mixes but not tried them yet.

I'm into bread cakes at the moment and they are great...www.francine.com has a forum which is good.  Try the petits pains à tomber.  Cooking the bread in a closed pan in the oven works a treat too.

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Tbh - we only made bread (as in traditional white for slicing) in ours once - the resulting loaf was so small that, with my three teen kids and hubby, it disappeared in seconds.  We do however use it all the time for pizza, naan bread, and fancy breads.  We bought my parents one for Christmas and they use theirs all the time (but there's only the two of them!!).   Dad found that half white / half wholemeal works best - but he did a bit of playing around before he was happy with end result.  Similarly friends of mine (couples and singles) who use their breadmaker all the time said they had to tinker with the recipe to get a bread they liked.

Kathie

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Hi All

I can honestly say I have never had a bad loaf of bread from our breadmaker, purchased from Tesco £9.99 on special offer.

As stated above, as simple as bread making is, you do need to check the dough (I learnt this from a baker) as each batch of flour is different!!!!!

My way of breadmaking........put you ingredients into the b/m as your recipe set to dough/pizza setting and start, leave the lid open and check dough (touch with back of fingers) if sticky, which it normally is, add a little flour and test again, add more flour if needed, the dough  should just feel tacky, NOT sticky, allow cycle to finish remove dough form into shape you want or put into bread tin, set oven to 50 C spray dough with water, place in oven for 20 Mins, turn heat up to highest setting for 10 Mins and spray with water again, cook for a further 10 Mins, check if loaf is baked, tap bottom of loaf, if hollow its done, if not place back in oven bottom side up for a further 5Mins, check again etc.

By the way I use Lidl plain flour (Not bread flour) with good results

Hope this is helpful

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Love our breadmaker - a Panasonic which we have had for about 10 years. If a loaf recipe comes out a bit heavy but in principle I like the flavour, next time I add an extra teaspoon of sugar which usually results in a lighter loaf. We also add pumpkin, sunflower, and linseeds so get a crunchy result but I buy those loose and in bulk at health food shops in the UK because they are very expensive to buy in small packs over here. I make olive and sundried tomato bread too - remember: always use pitted olives. [:D]

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I have been meaning to correct my post...it is a Moulinex, not a Murphy Richards.  I knew that there was an M somewhere!

I have just been down to put it on and my fingers worked quicker than my eyes and it is on the wrong programme....

Going to be one of those days.  I'm not dressed yet...

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I made some brioche in my Panasonic for breakfast this morning... I adapted the recipe from various sources a bit, measured and prepared last night and delayed the start to get the whole thing ready to eat for 8am...

  • 1 sachet levure de boulanger Briochin brand (not the traditionnelle de boulanger en poudre)
  • 300g Francine brioche flour
  • ½ teaspoon salt
  • 1tablespoon dried milk
  • 1 tablespoon of sugar
  • 2 beaten eggs
  • 50g soft butter (room temperature, not melted or softened)
  • 80ml milk

Baked on normal small white with dark crust setting (4 hours),

You could add more sugar I suppose, but I was concerned the crust would

start to go too brown and I do not like things too sweet anyway.

The result is more crusty than a baker's bought brioche, not as sweet,

but very very edible with butter (real butter, not the fake kind!) and

jam...!

I wanted to prepare the dough ready to oven-bake it this morning, but the machine does not allow me to use the timer with the dough setting, so I took a chance and it worked, although of course, if you are of fragile health, do not leave beaten eggs and butter out of the fridge all night!
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[quote user="Clair"]),

I wanted to prepare the dough ready to oven-bake it this morning, but the machine does not allow me to use the timer with the dough setting, so I took a chance and it worked, although of course, if you are of fragile health, do not leave beaten eggs and butter out of the fridge all night![/quote]

I was going to ask you about the eggs, milk and butter, Clair.  My bread machine cookbook always specifically noted to not use those things for timed baking.  Although, I would think that the heat of baking would take care of any problems, wouldn't it?

PG

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[quote user="PossumGirl"][quote user="Clair"]I wanted to prepare the dough ready to oven-bake it this morning, but the machine does not allow me to use the timer with the dough setting, so I took a chance and it worked, although of course, if you are of fragile health, do not leave beaten eggs and butter out of the fridge all night![/quote]

I was going to ask you about the eggs, milk and butter, Clair.  My bread machine cookbook always specifically noted to not use those things for timed baking.  Although, I would think that the heat of baking would take care of any problems, wouldn't it?PG[/quote]

I must add it's the first time I have done this, but I thought

a) as I use butter everyday, I usually leave it out during the day, only putting it away in the fridge at night, so little change there

b) as I use eggs almost everyday in one form or another, I do as above, so little change there too

c) if you're worried about using fresh milk, make it up with powdered milk+extra water as needed

Of course, a manual has to advise you not to take health chances, I can't say I take too much notice usually!

I do eat "out of date" yogurt, grate old cheese after cutting a mouldy rind and I have just helped my neighbour clean up her fridge where I found some eggs marked "best used before 11/10/06"!!! She also passed on some old lardons packs, old-ish eggs and UHT cream (dated 05/06), so I'll make a quiche for tonight I think![:)]

PS: an American work colleague used to rush her sandwich to the fridge as soon as it would be delivered and was always absolutely horrified whenever I would refuse her offer to do the same with mine! I prefered my food not to be stone cold and tasteless!
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