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sudden death


MKT
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My 48 year old husband suddenly and completely unexpectedly dropped dead last week, well on 18th.

I am in need of help and wondered if anyone here could give me any guidance. I have posted on the motoring forum about my queries there so I wont go into that here.

We have been here 8 years, we have our own house and another we rent out as a gite. We did a community universell, we have no children.

I need to sell the gite. I cannot possibly manage it on my own, and anyway need the money from it . I understand that wanting to sell and actually doing so are not the same but I did wonder if anybody could help me with any of the following or even tell me where to go next for advice on it. I speak french reasonably but am not so good with legal jargon and my head is, as you can imagine, a blur.

1. how long are his accounts likely to be frozen and what do I have to do to get them unfrozen? I havent told the bank yet but the funeral directors tell me it is frozen. Meantime I will have to borrow money, and the family will help me with that. if they lend me money do i have to declare it somewhere or what?

2. the gite house is likely (in the event of being able to sell it) to have a capital gains tax issue. It isnt our main home and I have declared all the income we have received from renting it out in the holidays for the last 5 years. It isnt registered anywhere as a business, excpet with the tax office as a micro bic. We bought it in 2002 for £125k and its now worth about £300k (obviously this is a guess). Mostly this is because of the work we did on it - my husband did most of it himself and we spent about £70k on it but that included furniture and fixings and NO labour costs, as he did the work himself. no, or very few artisans were involved (we did have the pool liner fitted by a proffessional) . I may have a few bill from bricolage shops but not many. My question is would I have to move into it to make it my own home to avoid this and if so for how long? I wouldnt really want to do this, I want to stay here in my own home in Gers (32), the gite is in Hautes Pyrenees (65) if that makes any difference. If there is CGT liability, any ideas on how much it is likley to be and at what rate it would be applied? who would know - a notaire? do i need to make an appointment to see one or should I get the house valued first? (I am fully booked with tourists until mid september so this is not that easy either)

3. am I likely to get any reduction in taxe fonciere and habitation on either house as I am just me now? I am trying to calculate what I will need to live on if I can stay here and these two bills for the two houses are considerable.

4. if I manage to find someone to help me to do the next four back to back changeovers (it is a 5 bedrooom place with a pool, no way can i manage the changeover in 6 hours myself), can i pay them ? how do I do so and am I breaking any laws? I dont have a CESU book and one wouldnt come through in time. The alternative is to cancel peoples holidays at a weeks notice and pay them back but the accounts are frozen so I cant really do that either.

5. will it be just assumed that I have this community universell and everything passes to me (thank goodness we did that, never ever imagined this would happen) or do I have to get something rubber stamped etc. Who should I see about this?

grateful for any insight into any of the above at this difficult time, I have tried to keep emotion out of it and deal with the practicalities but there is so much to do, brain has gone to mush and I just dont know what to do next.

Thank you in advance

Maria

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Now then ..... there seem to be millions of you out there. Surely someone can pitch in and help this lady with her changeovers?

Maria - I'd come and help you myself, but I'm in the Alps, which is a bit of a distance. Best of luck though, and really sorry to hear about your husband, must be terrible.

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Hi

Sorry to hear of your problems

It would help if you said roughly where you are, then you might get some volunteers to help you, but if not don't despair. Explain the situation to your guests and ask if you may clean the pool the evening before you go. That just leaves the house, and believe me you CAN change that on your own in the time allowed: I have been running changeovers for nigh on 20 years.

The best person to answer your legal questions is a Notaire, he will see to all the transfers of property. Do you speak good French? If not, try to find an English speaker, see http://www.notaires.fr/static-content/site_gb/web/english-homepage.html (you'll probably have to copy & paste this into your browser as I'm rubbish about posting links!). Click on the 'find a notaire', it gives you lines to fill in including any language you want to specify. Be aware that not all English speaking Notaires have informed the site of their ability, so local knowledge is useful (so again, where are you?)

Good luck

Edit: I see from your car question you are in the Gers, anyone out there in that area able to help vis à vis cleaning or choosing a Notaire?

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Good morning Maria

There are many experts on this Forum and I have emailed a couple of them with a copy of your post so that hopefully they can see it sooner rather than later.

There are also others of us who have been suddenly bereaved.  Sometimes this Forum can be like a warm blanket of love, which is not just virtual but practical.  If you post your approximate location in Gers, help will be on hand.

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I am so sorry for you and your family on your shocking loss.

I appreciate that you need to assess exactly where you stand and what your financial and practical options are but try not to make any quick decisions. Now is an impossible time for you, I realise that, but it's important that you speak to someone who can look at the whole picture of your life - and what you think you might want to do - and give some objective advice on the possibilities. As far as what you might want to do longer term, all the bereavement advice is to try and make no quick decisions. You have to start to deal absorb the grief and loss before you can make reasoned judgements on your future.

There is a rental owners' forum called http://www.laymyhat.com/forum/index.php - if you join, explain your circumstances and ask about changeover help in your area of the Gers, you may find someone who can help or provide contact details for trustworthy, reliable people who manage changeovers. There are plenty of people across France who have small businessses doing just that.

Bon courage. My father died a few months ago - no comparison to your loss because he was 90 and left a life that was well-lived... but my 86-year-old mother is devastated. Even so, four months on, she is beginning to pull her life together again and is now appreciating that a lot of her early thoughts - sell up, move into a home etc - weren't right for her and she's gradually becoming much more positive about coping on her own.

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Maria, I am so sorry to hear about your loss and being in a foreign country far from family can't be easy for you. Catalpa is quite right when he says not to make quick decisions - sage advice.  If I were nearer and free for the next two months I'd love to help with the changeovers but it's impossible but don't despair, I'm sure that there will be people who will help you in this time of need.  Courage.
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So sorry to hear of your sudden loss.

As far as the bank account goes. If it's a joint account, then any block should be lifted very soon. Even if the account is in your husband's name, I think you can get up to 5000€ from it. You have to provide some form of ID & also a copy of the Acte de Décès. Do go & see your notaire, they will be able to explain more of what you ask & also, needs to ne notified. If you should need more money from the account, they will also make contact with the bank if needed.

As Catalpa said, try not to make any quick decisions. Do talk to the bank & the notaire though. Hope you find someone to help with the gite & Pat has kindly made a move towards that.

Don't forget, take care of yourself.

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I'm so sorry to hear what happened,

        The very first thing you must do is see a notaire, preferably the one who drew up your marriage contract.  Although there is no full succession process with the "communauté universelle", he will give you a" certificat de propriété" which you can copy and give to the bank to free the accounts.  Do not ask the bank to do any extra work on your behalf as they charge a lot--they will probably try to charge for changing the accounts, ask the notaire about this and how to reduce their charges when you see him. You can also discuss the sale of the house.

        You do not have to declare money loaned to you by family .

        The only way I can see to avoid CGT is ,as you say, to move into,and live in the house for a period (in theory 1 day's residence is enough, but it is best to make at least 1 tax return from the address, and have bills as proof of residence). You could let the Gers house in the meantime (but only to an entirely trusted person, and preferably furnished on a short lease).

        If you do have to pay CGT  it would be calculated as follows (again confirm with notaire):

        If your figure is correct(and over-estimation is common), Sale receipts 300K€ less sale expenses--diagnostics, agency,etc. say 2000€ =298K€

        Only invoiced bills from builders etc. qualify for allowance so I have not taken any building costs into account.........................................298K€

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Price of acquisition ....................................................................................................125K€

       Add fees and expenses (agency and notaires fees,etc. if not known exactly 7.5%) ........  9.4K€                                                                                                        

                                                                                                                                         134.4K€

       Standard allowance for building owned more than 5 years.15% ................................  20.16K€                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                          154.6K€..............................................................154.6K€       

                                                                                                                    Taxable gain...............................................................................  143K€

         Reductions --standard 1K............................................................................................................................................................................1K€                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                         142K€                      

                               3 years detention@10% .......................................30%x 142.................................................................................................42.6K€                                     

                                                                                                                           Taxable gain                                                                               99.4K€

                                                   99400€ x28.1% (CGT + social charges) .............Tax due (this figure is approximate-confirm with notaire).........  27.9K€

       For somebody to do the change-overs ask at your mairie--there are several associations  which provide workers on CESU , but you pay the association direct and they do the paperwork .

       As far as I know you have to have a very low income to qualify for local tax exemptions, but you should ask at your tax office.

      I hope this helps --as I say the CGT is approx. and based on your estimated value--just use it as a rough guide--but go to the notaire as soon as possible to sort out the succession.

      Best wishes. 

      Edit:  I see the figures have come out all over the place (this always happens to me) I hope you can make sense of them .                                              

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I am so sorry to hear of your loss. On a practical level: if you cannot get a direct offer of help for the changeovers you could try Les Bons Voisins  (www.lbvfrance.com).  They seem to have members near Tarbes (at Montastruc) and Lourdes if you are near either place and in any case their members are willing to travel.

I have no connection with lbv but we have heard some good reports of them.

Best wishes

Mrs H.

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I am just so sorry too but sadly unable to offer any practical help as I live a very long way away. Many of us here are not getting any younger- and we should all prepare contingency plans- but prefer not to think about this (me included). Courage et bonne chance.

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Dear Maria

My heart goes out to you. Five years ago I was posting on this forum that my own darling husband had died suddenly of a heart attack out of the blue at age 49 when we were mid-way between Compromis and Acte on our house in France.

I can't help on the practical front but if you want to talk or just 'download' to someone who is further down this horrible road, then do please PM me. I am in France at the moment and would be happy to give you my number here.

There is also an wonderful website and forum called Merry Widow (I know, dreadful name) where you will find lots of other supportive people - all in the same 'club that nobody wants to join' - who are there for you at any time. www.merrywidow.me.uk

I can't praise it enough - it makes you feel like you are not alone in all this.

This may sound simplistic and unrealistic but try to take things in 'baby steps', rest when you need to, try to eat, even it's just tiny amounts of your favourite things, keep hydrated and, when people say 'if there's anything I can do...' take them up on it then and there or call them and enlist them when there is something.

I am so, so sorry for your dreadful loss.

Fay

x
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Thank you all so very much for all the help. My neighbours here have been fantastic and have rallied around and my mum is here and says she will stay on, I think I am ok for the changeovers now but thank you so much for taking the time to answer and ESPECIALLY for the excellent CGT guesstimate, that was all I was after, a rough working knowledge of how it worked. I am very grateful and have made an appt with the notaire who drew it all up - he is away so the appt isnt un til 6th August but thank you for the excellent advice, especially re the bank.

Thank you too to Fay, and I have noted that address and when I feel able to better communicate I will certianly check that out and I am sorry for your devastating loss too, I shall hope to see you over there.

I am so grateful to you all for coming to me in my hour of need, especially as I am not even a regular poster here.

Maria

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