Cholesterol and Diabetes

[idun]

Does anyone know what people eat with both problems please?

I am finding it difficult to cook for a good friend. It was easy enough when they were only diabetic, but with the cholesterol thing it is far more complicated.

[Patf]

I have to watch my cholesterol level, and the main things to avoid are cream butter fatty meat. Also too much cheese and eggs.

Fried food is ok if fried in veg.oil.

[Graham & Brenda]

Low fat, low sugar. Loads of recipes on the net. Best tip is to ask your friend what foods they avoid and then take it from there. If it is only one meal it shouldn't matter anyway - unless your friend is obsessive about their diet.

[powerdesal]

Patf,

I must disagree totally with your statement.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with cream, butter, fatty meat, cheese, eggs, food fried in (say) dripping or duck fat, also full cream milk is good for you.

None of the above lead to high cholesterol. High levels of carbohydrates are the main cause.

[NormanH]

Fish especially less oily ones; although sardines are good

White meats such as breast of chicken

Most vegetables with some care over potatoes and others with a lot of starch

Pulses

A sample day:

Breakfast: berries with nuts and seeds (I have pumpkin seeds and flaked almonds on raspberries) and yoghurt

Lunch: tomato salad, followed by grilled cod steak with ratatouille. Apple

Supper: Chicken curry made by sealing the chicken pieces in a pan just sprayed  with oli ve oil, then stewing them in the sauce..

[woolybanana]

No carbs, Norman, seems very sensible?

As a type 2 diabetic, I avoid carbs as I know they put my readings up. But also fat and sugars which make you fat and clog your arteries too.

No prepared foods from supermarkets etc.

[mint]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Patf, I must disagree totally with your statement. There is absolutely nothing wrong with cream, butter, fatty meat, cheese, eggs, food fried in (say) dripping or duck fat, also full cream milk is good for you. None of the above lead to high cholesterol. High levels of carbohydrates are the main cause.[/quote]

I eat like that too, Steve.

Wish I could cut off the alcohol which is full of carbs but I do like an aperitif before lunch and a glass of something when I am doing something boring like ironing. 

[Patf]

Steve - well that's what we were told at a series of talks at the hospital. To a group of us who had had ops. of one kind or another for blocked arteries.

[tinabee]

[quote user="idun"]Does anyone know what people eat with both problems please?

I am finding it difficult to cook for a good friend. It was easy enough when they were only diabetic, but with the cholesterol thing it is far more complicated.



[/quote]

Try googling Dukan recipes - the diet is low carb (i.e. no sugar, ideal for diabetics) and low fat (which is regularly recommended for cholesterol problems)

 

[powerdesal]

Patf,

I too have had blocked arteries, a quad bypass with all 4 at 90+% blocked.

After a year of statins and the need for ever increasing dose levels I researched the situation and adopted a high protein / low carb lifestyle. The result was a dramatic drop in cholesterol, no more statins, increased energy levels, substantial weight loss and a reduction in waist line size of approx 6 inches.

That was approx 13 years ago and I still try to maintain that dietary style. My weight has, in that time, increased by less than 1 kg and I can still wear the same size trousers as then.

It can be difficult affording a high protein diet in the present financial climate ( I previously lived in a low cost meat environment ) but so far so good.

Each to his/her own, it works for me though.

[Théière]

[quote user="Patf"]Steve - well that's what we were told at a series of talks at the hospital. To a group of us who had had ops. of one kind or another for blocked arteries.
[/quote]

I second Steve's comments.  The issues are that years ago fats were thought to be bad, then eggs etc. Now eggs are good because they can lower LDL cholesterol and fats play an important part.  Fat's chemical makeup is different to cholesterol but they have for years been interchangable when discussing this subject.

How can it be right when the global market for statins is so large, that would mean that nature, god whatever got it wrong?  The statin market in 2011 was valued at $20.5 billion  and they are worried about the global decline of statins so are trying to come up with new ways to increase their market (doesn't it sound more like a sales convention that a health campaign?)

Around 85% of the cholesterol in your body is manufactured in your body and has nothing to do with what you consume. Unfortunately some people have a predisposition to high cholesterol and diabetes makes this a double whammy.

Some interesting information here  which shows that information from test years ago doesn't seem to match up with the results expected, i.e. if people modified their diets in line with what the then thinking was why haven't their cholesterol levels changed?

Away form statins there has been a fair amount of research into hydroxpropylmethycellulose (HPMC) it's a natural thickener used extensively in the food indusrty but it occurs in grains like porridge (known to lowere LDL cholesterol) It could prove the best solution as it seems to carry no side effects but it would be the biggest threat to the statins market so no drug company is likely to fund it's research.

I think it was Q who posed the question/debate on duck/goose a while back, it's known as the French paradox, why in the country that eats the most fat do they have the lowest heart disease?

As Steve said it's the consumption of sugars (carbohydrates) that upsets the system, not a problem if you are a very active athlete as it does fuel the muscle but sugar is like a drug in the body. you need to have a bit more and a bit more and sweets etc don't trigger the same response so you can eat more of them.  If you are not very active and consume them you will end up with health issue even if that is just more colds through a reduced immune system.

I read the same book as Steve and have reduced my sugar intake (mainly refined sugars rather than fruit)  I didn't ever believe it was possible as I have a sweet tooth but although my tea didn't taste quite as good I carried on. I don't need sugar in coffee any more unless it's really bitter and I have only a tiny amount in my tea which is quite a reduction considering the amount of teat drunk in a day [:$] I cannot eat some sweets like mars bars now as they are incipid to my taste buds and I have weened myself of so many of those sugary things and I have seen a reduction in my cholesterol level.  Next blood test in two weeks time.

[Chancer]

I dont eat any sugars except those that may have been added to the very few processed foods that I eat, if I am out of veggies and open a can of flageolets verts I will draina and rinse them to remove any added salt or sugar although there is no added sugar in that example.

I do however eat obscene amounts of fruit, my weight has remained stable until I spent 3 months this summer in the UK, my diet was pretty much unchanged but of course I could not buy like for like.

I cannot stomach any sweets now, someone gave me a coffee with sugar at the lycée and I could not even swallow one sip. I always have to pass on the dessert course unless its a fresh fruit salad although at some times, after a cold dive etc I can eat say a slice of tarte au pommes and it tastes just right, its a case of listen to your body, something that I have learned to do.

I need to go and get my blood tests done again, got the ordonnance in January but havnt got around to it, since becoming fit my cholesterol has been very low (it was always high before) i suspect it may have increased this time.

[Patf]

Théière - well that's news to me. I had the op. in 2006, things must have changed since then.

I'm seeing the cardiologue next week and will ask her, blood test done, normal limits for bad cholesterol.

I'm ok with sugar as I rarely have sweet things and am active and skinny [;-)]

[mint]

There was a recent BBC programme on health and diet.  Can't now tell you what it was called.

The evidence is now very strong that cholesterol in food, such as found in eggs and prawns for example, does not translate into cholesterol (good, bad or indifferent) in the body.  That, as Teapot has said, is made in your own body.

AFAIK, the best way of lowering cholesterol is through exercise. 

Get moving, get walking, get whatever and you will see your cholesterol steadily come down.

[powerdesal]

Sweet17,

I agree that exercise has it's place but.....prior to my heart op I had been extremely active for years, I was scuba diving regularly, working out in the gym three times a week for an hour each time, rowing etc.

I even simulated a climb of Mt Everest which took me approx 22 hrs on a step machine.

I still ended up with high cholesterol and its associated problems.

Imho, exercise and sensible diet are the answer.

ps. It's a bit of a wake up call when the stress test is stopped after 30 secs and you are told, in late November that you will be dead by Christmas !!!!!!!

[Théière]

[quote user="Patf"]Théière - well that's news to me. I had the op. in 2006, things must have changed since then.
I'm seeing the cardiologue next week and will ask her, blood test done, normal limits for bad cholesterol.
I'm ok with sugar as I rarely have sweet things and am active and skinny [;-)]
[/quote]

In my GP's surgery they still give out the NHS diet advisory sheet from possibly the 60's you can't eat stuff that is now known to be beneficial but other things like marmalade you can, oh but not jam because?????? the rind in the marmalade is a bioflavinoid therefore a little benneficial, what in comparrison to all that sugar it takes to make the preserve?  It seems to take a long time to turn around a ship the size of health services.

EDIT: that's quite interesting, the skinny and active bit, that's you me and Steve, quite possibly Chancer who sounds very active now but all of us suffered with high cholesterol. That too doesn't fit with the "normal" idea or certainly our overweight USA friends with the same issues. Something has to be wrong with the medical diagnosis, ah yes the limits for cholesterol we all live by were set years ago and not by people over the age of 50 which is when cholesterol levels seem to rise naturally. In recent years the limits have been lowered, presumably to increase sales of statins as research has suggested lowering the cholesterol levels increase mortality not reduces it.

http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/1/52.full.pdf

[rogerthedodger]

Hi, I've been insulin-dependant diabetic for almost 50 years, have hypertension, need to watch my cholesterol & am fit & fat! There is a family history of coronary heart disease-my dad & his brothers all died at 60 or soon after.

My waistline has come down to 36 from 40/42 & I need to wear a belt to keep me trousers up! I was recently very disappointed to find I couldn't fasten 34 waist trousers BUT I will get there!

I eat low-glucose index food, have sweeteners in my drinks, limit my caffeine intake, only have sweets or cake on Christmas Day (huge insulin injections) & mostly eat white meat or fish.

I gently jog/walk several times every day & limit my wine intake. My GP says hypertension is a bigger threat to my life than my well-controlled diabetes. I also meditate & use diaphragmatic/yoga/belly breathing to reduce my blood-pressure.

Years ago I read 'Which Way to Avoid Heart Disease' & do not worry was on the list!!! Our 'life philosophy' is 'enjoy yourself' whilst you still can' & I think this helps..?

All the best,

Roger

[Chancer]

Slim now Théière, skinny even before my 3 months in the UK but before that obese and relatively inactive all my life.

I think the weight gain in the UK was more as a result of not having 5 or 6 hours a week of gym, swimming and running but eating the same amount of food, in the whole time went to about 3 Pilates classes and ran 3 times.

Were I in France the classes would all have ceased in les vacances but I would have ran and cycled alternative days to train for the semi-marathon that I had to miss this year.

I am shocked at how quickly one gets out of optimum condition and trim when the exercise ceases, its an uphill battle at the moment to recover.

[powerdesal]

An interesting comment Chancer, the ''eating the same amount of food'' bit.

I am probably almost as active now as I have ever been but in a different range of exercise, both my wife and I are surprised at how our portion sizes have decreased over the years. Presumably I burn the same calories as I did (say) 15 years ago but I am eating half the amount of food.

I always had a very healthy appetite but now I would be totally over-faced by the amount that used to be a normal meal.

My theory (tongue in cheek ) is that as you get older your body becomes more efficient and hence requires less fuel for the same output. !!!!!!!!!!

[Théière]

Think that maybe my issue, used to run cross country etc for the school and briefly the county, maybe still thinking that I am fit whereas I had to run carrying my luggage admittedly the other week and it felt as if my heart would burst out of my chest. Time to do more regular exercise.

The nurse at the cholesterol clinic said I should do at least one thing that makes me sweat, I replied put me down for colonoscopy!!

We should all take a leaf out of Chancer and Steve's book and do more activity.

I am off to wash me walnuts [:P]

[powerdesal]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2472672/Is-high-fat-diet-GOOD-heart-Doctors-say-carbs-damaging-arteries-butter-cream.html

I know it's the Mail but...........:-)

[YCCMB]

Life is funny sometimes..

I'm married to someone with a family history of heart disease. Once upon a time, my husband (before we met, in fact) was obese. There was a moment last year when it was getting close to him weighing less than me. On a normal week, he cycles probably about 60 miles, recently completed a charity road bike "race" where he finished alongside our son and his friends - even though the youngsters had gone off like a rocket and left him far behind for quite a stretch. He's just had a second minor heart operation.

I've been slim (-ish) all my life and there's no family history of heart disease. I do little exercise apart from walking, and saw my weight increasing as soon as I became a Woman of a Certain Age. Not to the point of obesity, but it was dramatic enough to make me diet.

Of the two of us, it's him that has the higher blood pressure and cholesterol. I've always had the BP of a dead person and my cholesterol levels have been low ever since it's been measured.

Curiously, we both eat exactly the same meals most of the time, the principal difference being that I do eat more sweet things, chocolate etc. And OH has finally given up his last great dietary love: cheese.

[Théière]

I think what you are saying is in the last paragraph?  We are not all the same, some people like your husband and others on here with diabetes have a pre disposition to high cholesterol etc.  Like smokers, not all will get ill from smoking.  That's an impressive result from the cycling though, I really ought to get my bike out.

How did your dieting go, with your sweet things intake? 

Article from BMJ  Here 

[Pierre ZFP]

That artical sort of goes along with THIS on the BBC

It seems that this week's big no-no is sugar not fats.

[idun]

Well this has all confused me beyond belief.

Our friend is off fatty stuff, the hospital has told him to. And carbs.

No idea now what to do about cooking anything at all for him. No wonder the poor 'ugger is so thin these days.