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Getting PACSd in France


Cat
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Now that the inheritance laws have changed to allow those in  a French PACS (Pacte Civil de Solidarité) agreements in France to benefit from usufruct (the lifelong right to occupy, or benefit from rental income of, a property for a surviving spouse) without having to pay inheritance tax, the PACS agreement might be of interest to unmarried couples living together under the same roof.  Couples who have entered into a PACS agreement are also able, starting from 3 years after the agreement, to make a joint French tax declaration, and so benefit from the tax breaks afforded to a couple.

As others have posted questions in the past about getting PACSd in France, and as I'm about to enter into a PACS agreement myself, I thought it might be useful for others if I listed the paperwork, and procedure, involved.

For anyone born outside of France, the Ministére de la Justice needs;

   an identity paper mentioning your town of birth

   a birth certificate, translated by an authorised translator.

Both parties also need to supply sworn statements, and supporting paperwork, proving that they live under the same roof. Joint bank accounts, utility bills etc are accepted as proof.

The British Embassy in Paris has this to say http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1139993204041

That may sound simple, but in practice, is slightly more involved than it seems.  For one thing, the paperwork needed varies slightly depending on the Tribunal d'Instance involved.  For most of us born outside France it means that what is actually needed is usually a Certificate de Coutume, which can be obtained from the British Embassy in Paris, using this form .  To apply for this, one needs to provide a full British birth certificate (the long version, which can be applied for here ) a divorce decree for those previously married and divorced, or a death certificate for widows/ers, and of course a fee.

If one of the parties entering into PACS agreement is French, they will need to obtain a Certificate de Non Pacte Civil de Solidarité, available from their town of birth.  The application form and details can be found here .  Often, but not always, your notaire will be happy to apply for this and forward the paperwork for a French applicant.

Once I am further into this I will post any additional information.

 

 

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Just a question that has always made me curious...why does a birth certificate need to be translated? they are pretty straightforward. Name of person, date/place of birth, name of parents. One does not even need a dictionary to work these things out.
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[quote user="Jura"]...why does a birth certificate need to be translated? they are pretty straightforward. Name of person, date/place of birth, name of parents. One does not even need a dictionary to work these things out.[/quote]

So simple  really! Every French civil servant should know that! [:)]

이름은 사람, 날짜 / 출생지, 부모의 이름

Naam van de persoon, datum en plaats van geboorte, de naam van de ouders

Ονομα του προσωπου, ημερομηνια / τοπος γεννησης, το ονομα των γονεων

Nome da pessoa, data e local de nascimento, nome dos pais

Имя лица, дата и место рождения, фамилия родителей

Nombre de la persona, fecha y lugar de nacimiento, nombre de los padres

人员姓名,日期/出生地点,姓名的家长

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Just a few corrections - the law re: declaring taxes together actually changed back in 2005 I believe, and you can now declare your taxes together straight away.  For example, if you get pacsed in April, you will each need to complete a separate declaration for Jan-April, and then a common one for the rest of the year.

And the other thing is that both partners need to have the certificat de non-PACS, not just the French one. 

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and a question..............cat wrote "Now that the inheritance laws have changed to allow those in  a French PACS (Pacte Civil de Solidarité) agreements in France to benefit from usufruct (the lifelong right to occupy, or benefit from rental income of, a property for a surviving spouse) without having to pay inheritance tax"

How come the survivor of a marriage has to pay inheritance tax if the value of the transfer is above 70,000€ then?

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I know it depends on the figures involved Ron, the age of the surviving partner and the value of the property.  The tax free limit ifor lifetime gifts is 76,000€ for both married and PACSd couples.

For a surviving spouse, at the age of 70, with a house value of 250.000€, the calculated value of the property in lifetime gift terms would be 30% (75,000€) so no inheritance tax to pay.

Of course, if the house were worth 500,000€ and the surviving spouse aged only 45, things would be significantly different, for both married and PACSd survivors.

I should have said... Now that the inheritance laws have changed to allow those in  a French PACS (Pacte Civil de Solidarité) agreements in France to benefit from usufruct (the lifelong right to occupy, or benefit from rental income of, a property for a surviving spouse) without having to pay any more inheritance tax than a married couple would pay.

As for the need for a certificat de non pacte for both parties, that's news to me as I thought that the Certificat de Coutume was the equivalent for a Brit, as it has to be applied for from the British Embassy.  Perhaps though it is the proof needed to apply for the certificate de non pacte.  I haven't got that far yet as I'm still awaiting delivery the long version of my birth certificate. 

Being able to do joint tax returns sooner than 3 years after the PACS is good news though, thanks for passing that on.

And ladies, I haven't even started to think about hats and presies yet [:$]

 

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May I add that the birth certificate must have been issued within the last six months[bazaar]

And you have to attend a court.,,,to obtain the pacs.

My notaire forgot to mention the bank account details and the bills as proof of joint accounts.....

He has not been doing his job very well...actually.....the proof in the form of bills etc.....is important!

 

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May I add that the birth certificate must have been issued within the last six months[bazaar] 

or bizzare even[:P] Some references quote within 3 months for the issue of a birth certificate but that appears only to apply to French citizens, UK full original certificates seem perfectly valid for UK citizens entering PACs. 

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  • 4 months later...
[quote user="Cat"]

Now that the inheritance laws have changed to allow those in  a French PACS (Pacte Civil de Solidarité) agreements in France to benefit from usufruct (the lifelong right to occupy, or benefit from rental income of, a property for a surviving spouse) without having to pay inheritance tax, the PACS agreement might be of interest to unmarried couples living together under the same roof.  ;

   [/quote]

Hi!

That is possible, but only under certain conditions - a testament:

Here is the standard case:

L'attribution préférentielle

du logement

Depuis le 1er janvier 2007, le partenaire pacsé peut rester

gratuitement dans le logement qui servait de résidence principale au couple

pendant l'année qui suit le décès de son compagnon ou de compagne, même si

le logement appartient au seul défunt.

Après cette période, le partenaire

peut être expulsé. Pour lui permettre de demeurer dans les lieux et d'acquérir

la totalité du logement (soulte payée aux indivisaires), il est indispensable

de rédiger un testament prévoyant l'attribution préférentielle en sa faveur.

Les héritiers ne pourront pas s'y opposer.

Yours,

giantpanda

http://www.lemoneymag.fr/v4/fiche/s_Fiche_v4/0,5382,14997,00.html
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  • 8 months later...

The PACS is just as complicated as it seems......and, in the end...not so difficult!It is just that very few people know the complete process.

We used an English speaking Notaire and, of course we had to pay him and for the translation...plus the Embassy in Paris....it is now fine.Happy to talk to people about it if it helps as it all seems so daunting untill the paperwork is in your hands.You do need to go to a court house but you sit with a clerk in an office and verify your details.....takes 5 mins.

 

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We got PACsd in St. Gaudens in 2007 and the very helpful lady at the Tribune de Grande Instance advised us that it was not necessary to go to a Notaire, infact she admitted that it made things more complicated and just cost you more money.  Unless you would have drawn up a Marriage contract (like the worthy film stars amongst us), then you can just make a statement that you wish to be PACsd and share your assets equally.

Yes, you still have to get the long birth certificates, these then have to have a formal translation, plus the paperwork from the British Embassy (which by the way is the most expensive thing and really is a rip off imho), plus the statement from Paris confirming that you are not already PACsd in France etc. (which is free), and a date is then made at the Tribune and hey ho you get PACsd.

Good luck to anyone going through the process, hope this helps.

Bertiebe's other half.

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  • 2 months later...
I will soon be getting PACSed and have recently started the process by taking a trip down to our nearest Tribunal d'Instance... and I have to say that the people working there seem to be absolutely clueless.

Anybody thinking about getting PACSed, I advise you to read as much as you can about on the internet first before going along to initiate the process. Having done just that myself, I was glad I did. First of all, the receptionists gave us a "list of paperwork required" which later turned out to be out of date. Also, they had manually scribbled out the part which said you needed a "certificat de non pacte", as if it was no longer required or something. Unfortunately for me I trusted them on this (I thought, "well they wouldn't have scribbled it out for no reason"), especially as they made no mention of it when they recited verbally what was required. They just said we needed our "extraits d'acte de naissance", the convention written by ourselves, and for me a "certificat de coutume" was also required.

No mention whatsoever that I would need my birth certificate translated into French! So I asked the question. Yes apparently they need to be translated. Well they could have said so rather than waiting for me to ask the question!

No mention whatsoever that it had to be done by an official approved translator or how I should go about locating one. So I asked the question and asked if they had the list of traducteurs assermentés (a good job I had read about that on the internet beforehand!). Oh surprise surprise, yes, they DID have a copy of the list - so why didn't they just give it to me rather than waiting for me to ask yet again?

So then of course, I take care to get all my paperwork in order, my certificat de coutume from the British Embassy and an official translation of my birth certificate, my boyfriend goes along to the mairie for his extrait d'acte de naissance, we write a simple convention together and we think we're all set to go.

Now I'm the kind of person that gets really excited about things like this, just like I get excited about Christmas and birthdays... for me, this is the last step before getting married... and I can't believe the day has finally come. So off we go, paperwork in hand, only to be then told by the Tribunal d'Instance that they can't PACS us because I didn't have my "certificat de non pacte". The disappointment was awful, and I was so annoyed that they had not mentioned that this document was necessary the first time, and even worse, had even crossed it out on their so-called list of documents required! I argued with every reasonable argument that I could come up with, explaining that at reception they said it was no longer required, but it didn't make any difference. It just wasn't going to be possible without this certificate.

So I've sent my envelope off today to order the certificate from the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris. What a hassle! The French administration certainly do seem to try and make people's lives as difficult as possible... or is it just plain incompetence?

Anyway I'm just going to hope that everything goes as planned this time and that we'll be able to get PACSed before the dates on our extraits de naissance expire!

So let this be a lesson, arm yourself with as much information as you can before tackling the French administrations, ready to correct them when they get something wrong in order to save you more trips to the Tribunal d'Instance than necessary!
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  • 8 months later...
There's some info here about getting a PACS:

Getting a PACS in France

This is between an English and French couple. Some of the keypoints:

* I applied for a long copy of my birth certificate from my city of

birth. You must complete the PACS process within 6 months otherwise you

have to reorder the birth certificate again. Once you have it, you must

have a registered authority translate it into French for you and stamped

with a seal of approval – around 30 euros.

* I needed a certificate de non-pacs (to prove I wasn’t already

PACsed in France). This is free. I went to the Tribunal de Grande

Instance de Paris to collect mine in person, but I’m sure they can send

it through the post.

* I needed the “certificat de coutume” which I’m afraid isn’t free

and must be paid with using ‘postal order’ or ‘bank mandate’.

* My partner and myself had to complete an Attestation Honneur to

prove we’re not related in anyway.

* We needed an Address Commune, which shows we live at the same

address (I believe an EDF bill or a rent bill can prove this).

* There’s another document (I forget the name now) to show I have the

right to vote in the UK.

* I had to write a contract (there’s plenty of free templates on the

Internet) to detail what assets I and my partner had from property to

processions and money.

* When you go to the town hall you will also need a passport/id to

show them.

Be sure to check out these two websites for more details:

http://www.vos-droits.justice.gouv.fr/index.php?rubrique=10062&ssrubrique=10209

http://www.infopacs.fr/demarches-documents-pacs.html

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  • 1 month later...

[quote user="Jura"]Just a question that has always made me curious...why does a birth certificate need to be translated? they are pretty straightforward. Name of person, date/place of birth, name of parents. One does not even need a dictionary to work these things out.[/quote]

If I recall correctly, both France and the UK are signatories to  one of the Hague Conventions on the acceptance of official documents which allows for countries to accept - untranslated - documents from other signatory nations.

Not that the local mairie would know that!

[6]

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