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Best novel ever written in French---plus a bit more


Ron Bolus
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I wondered what novel members would choose as "Best Novel Ever Written In The French Language".

I also wanted to mention a series of English novels that I highly recommend.

First of all, in answer to first point : I'd put "Madame Bovary" head and shoulders above any other; a long way behind, I'd put "The Count Of Monte Cristo".

While making this posting, I am reminded that Betty has expressed a wish for me to mention my fluency in French and how I achieved it. So, always anxious to grant requests from longstanding and mucch-loved posters, I must mention here that reading is another way in which to achieve fluency ( talk only French, try and think only in French, mix with French people a lot everyday-----and read mainly French newspapers and books). For example, to answer Mary's point ( on a recent thread elsewhere on Forum ), she might well want to consider reading the French versions of Joanne Harris' novels including "Chocolat".

Whilst on topic of books, without wishing to start a separate thread, may I recommend , as English books I am currently enjoying immensely : the "Aubrey/Maturin" series of novels by the late Patrick O'Brian.

Look forward to hearing your faves and recommendations.  Cheers, Ron[B]

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I have never read a Patrick O'Brian novel but I am told that they are very good.

I agree about reading to learn French or indeed any other language.  Nothing like reading, reading and more reading to improve vocab and to familiarise yourself with how the language is effectively used. Plus, and here's a bit of cheating for you, you can memorise some of the wittier and more expressive phrases and try them in your day-to-day conversations and gauge how well or otherwise they are understood.

I haven't read "Madame Bovary" in the original French and it must be at least 40 years since I read the English translation.  I find Madame Bovary herself a most irritating woman so I am not actively searching out the French version to read.

On my bedside table I have an early Doris Lessing (nothing like so good as "The grass is singing"), and 2 french books, Jean Giono's "Le serpent d'étoiles" and Philippe Delerm's "La sieste assassinée"

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And talking of pages how about curling up with Malone meurt?

"
Il suffit de ne plus entendre, au fond de son trou, pendant quelques

jours, d'autre bruit que celui des choses, pour qu'on commence à se

croire le dernier du genre humain"

but Malloy isn't bad either....

I recommend "Car ne rien savoir, ce n'est rien, ne rien vouloir savoir non plus, mais

ne rien pouvoir savoir, savoir ne rien pouvoir savoir, voilà par où

passe la paix dans l'âme du chercheur incurieux"
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[quote user="Pickles"]I kept my French up by reading Le Petit Nicolas, ?Pagnol's books, and St-Exupery. I also bought non-fiction books on topics that interested me.
[/quote]

Oh, Pickles, we should start our own thread on our favourites!  I also love le petit Nicolas, Pagnol and le petit prince has got to be one of the nicest books you could read.

A couple of years ago, we went to an exhibition showing St Exupéry's life and works, including a talk.  It was great to see photos of when he was a pilot and the newspaper articles that he'd written.  A most charming and cultured man......

Edit:  Pickles, if you like Pagnol, you will like Giono and possibly Daudet?

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Just to be awkward, I don't read novels, only non-fiction. I used to at one time.

I like books about people, historical events, travel etc.

Currently A Model Childhood by Christa Wolf, translated from german to english.

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Just caught up with this thread. I don't feel I have sufficient knowledge to comment on the best novel. Phillipe Delerm is an author I think very much under rated- I have several of his books. A good starter is "La prèmiere gorgée de bière( et autres plaisirs miniscules).The stories are short-normally 2- 3 pages, sufficient to hold attention,learn about everyday French life and get to grips with the language.The title story makes me thirsty thinking of it- and ready to taste the delights if "Le paquet de gâteaux du dimanche matin"
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Jazzer, I like "un banana-split", mainly because of memories dating back to when we first had  a Whimpey (not the housebuilders!) in our town when I was a teenager and we thought it was the height of sophistication to order one of these!  Wish Delerm had described a knicker-bocker glory as well![:)]

In the same book, I like "un roman d'Agatha Christie" for all the daft things that Christie writes about but through French eyes.

I have a few French friends who also like "la première gorgée de bière" and they explain to me some of the finer points of French life that Delerm writes about and which would have totally escaped me if I hadn't had their explanations.

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Just to say how much I have enjoyed your postings on this topic sweet17. You not only have such a wide variety of tastes and a bubbly enthusiasm, but your love of books shines through [:D]

You're right. We should have another thread-----not "best novel" like the thread I started but : " our faves" , as you have suggested in one of your postings.  Our faves are very different from the "best-ever" ------the former is much better to discuss and swap ideas about,; the latter is almost impossible to answer because ....there is no answer [:D]

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[quote user="Ron Bolus"]

Just to say how much I have enjoyed your postings on this topic sweet17. You not only have such a wide variety of tastes and a bubbly enthusiasm, but your love of books shines through [:D]

You're right. We should have another thread-----not "best novel" like the thread I started but : " our faves" , as you have suggested in one of your postings.  Our faves are very different from the "best-ever" ------the former is much better to discuss and swap ideas about,; the latter is almost impossible to answer because ....there is no answer [:D]

[/quote]

There is a providence for impotent old men, to the end. And when they

cannot swallow any more someone rams a tube down their gullet, or up

their rectum, and fills them full of vitamized pap, so as not to be

accused of murder. I shall therefore die of old age pure and simple,

glutted with days, as in the days before the flood, on a full stomach.(Translation of a bit of my favourite referred to above)

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RB, you are right about "faves".  It's impossible to know why some books/stories are faves.

I love "Jane Eyre" although I wouldn't call it terribly "intellectual" and do you know a short story by Daudet called "les vieux"?

If you haven't read the latter, I suggest you try it.  The writing and the things it talks about (although there is no "action" in your Dan Brown fashion ...yikes!) are beautiful and the "eternal verities" (whatever you think they are) are there just below the surface.

Just to whet other people's appetite, or put them off completely, it's only a little histoire about Daudet leaving his mill for the day to visit the grandparents of a friend at the friend's request .........and that's basically it![:D]

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Yes Swee-----I read Les Vieux in a volume of short stories by Daudet. Beautiful use of language and a sense of tenderness.  I think it was Daudet who did more for Provence than the Provence Tourist Board wasn't it ? [;-)]

I like Jane Eyre but I prefer her sister's "Wuthering Heights"------as you were saying , it's impossible to know what makes a "fave"-----guess it's like all art-forms[8-)]

I like the work of Dumas---but you're a girl so you won't be interested in boy's own derring-do [:D]

Have you tried the short stories of Guy de Maupassant, surely one of the best short-story writers of all time-----I mention him to you , if you haven't read his stories, as you liked the short story "Les Vieux"------but don't ever listen to the awful Jacques Brel singing "Les Vieux" [:D]

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I think it was Daudet who did more for Provence than the Provence Tourist Board wasn't it ?

That is more likely to be Pagnol.

Daudet was born in Nîmes, but hated life in the Gard and fled to Paris after a brief spell teaching in Alès, and he has a tendency to mix fact and fiction and to exaggerate his links with the South.

Anti-semitic and syphilitic  he has never been one of my favourite literary figures.

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[quote user="Ron Bolus"]

Yes Swee-----I read Les Vieux in a volume of short stories by Daudet. Beautiful use of language and a sense of tenderness.  I think it was Daudet who did more for Provence than the Provence Tourist Board wasn't it ? [;-)]

I like Jane Eyre but I prefer her sister's "Wuthering Heights"------as you were saying , it's impossible to know what makes a "fave"-----guess it's like all art-forms[8-)]

I like the work of Dumas---but you're a girl so you won't be interested in boy's own derring-do [:D]

Have you tried the short stories of Guy de Maupassant, surely one of the best short-story writers of all time-----I mention him to you , if you haven't read his stories, as you liked the short story "Les Vieux"------but don't ever listen to the awful Jacques Brel singing "Les Vieux" [:D]

[/quote]

Au contraire, RB, I LOVE a bit of derring-do.  I love les trois mousquetaires (does that have an "e"?) though I don't know why they say trois when there were clearly four of them.

As an aside, I have to be careful when talking about les "mousquetaires" because I am liable to confuse them with "moustiquaires" and I must say that I'd have more use for the latter as I have been eaten alive by the little blighters.

Yes, I enjoy Guy de Maupassant though he might be another syphilitic anti-semite (or whatever!).  Talking about GdM, I like the short stories of Somerset Maugham who was a great admirer of GdM and I am sure based his own style on Maupassant.  He was also an admirer of Hazlitt and that influence also shows in his work.  The stories always have some sort of a twist and sometimes leave one infuriated at the injustice of how things end![:D]

Norman, I don't think that one should be too affected by the lifestyle and choices of "geniuses".  I think of the story of "Amadeus" and how Mozart, this brat who is irreverent and leads a life of dissipation, is the genius and the hero, and not poor old God-fearing, law-abiding Salieri who is shown as the plebeian  who, try as he might, cannot produce masterpieces with the ease of Mozart.

As for Mozart, don't forget he was also a freemason (cue Quillan!) and goodness knows what else but, on my death bed, I reckon I'll be playing Mozart.

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Norman, I don't think that one should be too affected by the lifestyle

and choices of "geniuses".  I think of the story of "Amadeus" and how

Mozart, this brat who is irreverent and leads a life of dissipation, is

the genius and the hero, and not poor old God-fearing, law-abiding

Salieri who is shown as the plebeian  who, try as he might, cannot

produce masterpieces with the ease of Mozart.

Amadeus is pure Hollywood riddled with historical inaccuracies for the sake of making simplistic points.

However I feel that there is a difference between musicians who are not making moral points by their music, and authors who are portraying a saccharine world with implied moral absolutes which they did not live by in their own lives.

The latter could be accused of hypocrisy.

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Ah, hypocrisy..........there is a lot of that about!

Now, I'm going to broaden the argument more, a lot more.

An imperfect "vehicle" can nevertheless produce great art ("art" also used in its broadest sense).

I suggest that you just pause for a few seconds to ponder on what the papacy did for the renaissance!

And I know that you, more than most, would really understand that?

 

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[8-)8-)]I agree S that there is a lot of hypocrisy in abundance. But isn't a bit of hypo just a bit more preferable to the dreaded

"p" word-----pretention ( which seems to me to be wholly more yukky [:D] ). And, no---I am not referring to you or any of your posts, just in case you infer that and turn into one of the "crusties" [:D][:D]

We both seem to have a penchant ( pretentious? Moi ? [:P] ) for the short story writers. Yes, I love Somerset Maugham----I think he is surely THE best short-story writer of them all ( with due deference to that bloke what writ Sherlock Holmes ). Tho a novel, rather than a novella, I love "The Razor's Edge" .........and that leads on in a way to your other provocative teaser about whether imperfect vehicles can produce great art.

Tho far from your example of Papacy and Renaissance, I often muse as to whether a great book can ever be improved upon ( I think I mean------made more enjoyable for more people). And that ties in with "The Razor's Edge" because, as much as I love the book, I am totally enamoured of the 1940s film starring Tyrone Power ( and a marvellous performances from Anne Baxter, Clifton Webb and---as S Maugham----Herbert Marshall ). So I think a great book was actually bettered by a great film ------which does not IMHO happen too often.

I'm sure our next short-story writer chat will be about Poe. I am not keen on American literature except Boy's Own (not for mere girls [:P] ) stuff such as Fennimore Cooper. But I've read all Poe's works and am ready to delve into the Pendulum with you if you have views on his work.

Seriously, does the point about films being an imperfect vehicle for great written art fit into your new debating issue ?

 

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"Razor's Edge", yes, pure quintessential Maugham.  However, I have never seen the film.

Also, "Rain" always seems to pop into my mind when I think of Maugham.  Guess I'm not too keen on missionaries [:-))]

The film that comes to mind when I have to come up with a film that improves on the book is "The English Patient".  It is a book telling a story on so mnay levels that I went to see the film, just to see how they had dealt with the material and, happily, I was not disappointed.

Actually, I do like American literature though I'd be hard pushed to name one book that I love above all others.  As for Poe, I have but a mere nodding acquaintance with him though now that you have mentioned him, I shall definitely look forward to reading some Poe.

The Great American Novel?  "To kill a mocking bird" has just got to be in contention, don't you think?

Finally, just to make Norman jealous, my Proms Guide has arrived in the post this morning [:D]  Shall be reading that for weeks to come....[:D]

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Would you prefer the film or novel version of 'Le Silence de la Mer'?

And which film version? this one  or the famous b/w version of Jean-Pierre Melville

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/le-silence-de-la-mer-1949/

Extract here:

http://www.imineo.com/films/drame/silence-mer-video-12386.htm

Do you think that the words put into the German officer's mouth about French culture were just put there by the French auteur as post-war propaganda after the trauma of Occupation?...

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Le Silence de la Mer was one of our set books for A level french, and I did think it was exceptional, very moving. I don't think a film could do it justice. But haven't yet seen the video, so can't answer your question Norman.

I've since read another book by Vercors Les Armes de la Nuit et la Puissance du Jour - about men returning from forced labour camps. Not quite so readable, but tragic.

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What a fascinating choice to decide on, Norman.

I first of all saw the Melville film; later I read the book ( and have re-read it some years later); I have also seen the Melville film several times; finally I saw the TV version of 2000ish.

I mention this because I find we ( perhaps just me ?) have our objectivity tampered with sometimes by the order in which we see/read.........OK, so I am a shallow person [:$]

I REALLY enjoyed the 1940s film a lot. I looked on it as a minor artistic "great" of cinema. It has stayed nostalgically so ever since in my own mind.

I have to admit finding the book a bit "hard-going"----perhaps my French was not good enough then, but I think it was that I found it did not "come to life" on the pages. I DO recall thinking that it could have been written successfully as a play. When I found no difficulty with the French language, I have to admit that , upon re-reading, I felt the same as originally about the book.

Then I saw the TV ffilm , expecting to dislike it intensely ( as it was trying to remake the "perfect " 1940's film )------and I was wrong : the 2000 version was excellent and, if I had never seen the Melville version I would have considered it a personal favourite. But, though it makes a very valiant attempt ( with major shifts of emphasis from the 1940s film ), it fails to match the original IMHO. But I praise it as a very good "remake", instead of the travesty I was expecting.

So, another example of what I regard generally as an exception : a film which is better than the book (IMO).

I will not bore you Norman, or other viewers, by going into more detail but my summary is that this has all the hallmarks, at face value, of being a story best told in written form, and very difficult to make a successful film.And yet I feel the opposite.I still treasure the 1940s film.....and I particularly enjoyed the fact that it was made at roughly the time which it portrayed---hence the "authentic" scenery, costumes, settings, etc. I am sorry to be a Philistine about what is considered a great novel, but it's just my personal opinion ( and I still think it should have been written as a play originally).

As for your final intriguing question, Norman......I find it difficult to answer. But, as I rarely believe in "fence-sitting",I think the answer to your question is "Yes, it is propaganda-based " ( after all, I think it was written DURING the Occupation but not published till after the War----forgive me if I am wrong). It was written at a time when the German occupation and the language used in the book had to be influenced by what was happening at the time , particularly if I am right about the actual date of writing being as in my pareentheses above.

Finally, a very petty point, I am sure, but I DO wish that the setting could have been in a similar small town in East, South-East France ( which is not possible in view of the terms of the capitulation, Vichy, etc ).

I very much look forward to you shooting me down in flames, Norman----I will take it like a man ---eek-eek

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My favourite is still the Count of Monte Cristo.

How do I decide on how much I like a book, it is when the scenes replay in my head long after I have read it and make me want to read again. And very few books have drawn me back to them.

I'm off reading at the moment. Cannot settle into a book and I have tried. I go from reading three at the same time, to a sort of restlessness that seems to thwart my efforts to settle down to read, it has happened before and daresay it will happen again.

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