Motor bike noise and pollution

[Patmobile]

There were two motor bike events near us on two consecutive  weekends last month.  These brought lots of bikers to the area - and lots of noise pollution.

Why are motor bikes so noisy?

 I was surprised to find out that bikes are permitted by law to be more noisy than cars.  The motors are small and could easily be made to be quiet.  Very brief research also revealed that motor bikes are among most dangerous and least environmentally sound vehicles you can legally use on the road.  I've heard about people campaigning against 4X4 vehicles, but why are they not concentrating more effort on pointing out how noisy, polluting, dangerous and fuel inefficient most bikes are?

If anyone knows of a genuinely valid reason why bikes should not conform to noise and pollution standards that every car in Europe has to, please enlighten me.     

  

 

[Bob T]

This must be a wind up! The reason that cars make less noise is that the engine is enclosed inside the car. Bike engines, on the other hand are exposed. A six to ten foot exhaust on a car will be quieter than a 3 foot one on a bike. The noise figures for all vehicles are for when they are new and most bikes, when new, are very quiet.

When you talk about pollution, how can one person in a 2 litre Ford Mondeo, doing 30 mpg be polluting less than two people on a bike that does around 50 mpg?

If there had been a custom car event near you would you be saying the same?

[Sunday Driver]

"If anyone knows of a genuinely valid reason why bikes should not conform to noise and pollution standards that every car in Europe has to, please enlighten me."

 

Noise levels for motorcycles are regulated in the EU in the same way as they are for cars.

Directive 78/1015/EEC gives the following statutory limits for motorcycles:

up to 80cc - 75dB(A)

80-175cc - 77dB(A)

over 175cc - 80 dB(A)

 

Directive 70/157/EEC gives the following limits for other vehicles:

Cars - 74dB(A)

Cars (direct injection diesels) - 75dB(A)

Minibuses - 78dB(A)

Buses and HGVs - 80dB(A)

 

"Very brief research also revealed that motor bikes are among most dangerous and least environmentally sound vehicles you can legally use on the road."

Until you provide a link to this brief research, then I can't really comment......

 

 

 

[Chancer]

So mobylettes are 75dba then[8-)]

Maybe when they leave the showroom or run out of fuel!

Rumour has it that one around here actually still has the standard exhaust but this cannot be verified, as clearly the owner would be too embarrassed to actually want to ride such a quiet unobtrusive machine.

[Patmobile]

[quote user="Bob T"]This must be a wind up! The reason that cars make less noise is that the engine is enclosed inside the car. Bike engines, on the other hand are exposed. A six to ten foot exhaust on a car will be quieter than a 3 foot one on a bike. The noise figures for all vehicles are for when they are new and most bikes, when new, are very quiet.
When you talk about pollution, how can one person in a 2 litre Ford Mondeo, doing 30 mpg be polluting less than two people on a bike that does around 50 mpg?
If there had been a custom car event near you would you be saying the same?
[/quote]

1)  The bike noise I hear, at a range of half a mile or more with some bikes, can only be exhaust noise.  the mechanical noise of the engine could not possibly reach so far.

2)  A 700cc Smart FourTwo has an engine similar in size to many motor bikes and an exhaust system of similar length.  It easily complies with the noise limits laid down for cars, so please explain why a bike with a similar size engine can't.

3)  Old cars are still quiter than old bikes

4)  I rarely see 2 people on a bike but I often see 4 in a Mondeo or similar car.  The car will typically also carry shopping, furniture, business samples, building materials, gardening supplies, etc. during its lifetime, so it's real life fuel burnt/payload ratio is likely to be far better than the bike's. 

5)  To take a typical example, a Kawasaki bike of 700 cc will do about 45 mpg (Motorcycle News).  A 5 door, 5 seat, petrol-engined, 2 litre, versatile multiple-use hatchback such as a Renault Clio, will easily average 45 mpg.  Many similar size diesel engined cars will manage 50 or more mpg.

6)  If the people who turned up to spectate at a custom car event, or even a motor racing event, drove cars that made as much noise as the hundreds of spectator bikes at our local events, I would certainly say the same.  I'm sure a lot of the spectators for these bike events came by car, but I didn't hear a single outrageously noisy car on either weekend. 

I haven't found out yet if most bikes have catalysts in the exhaust to clean up the emissions.  I suspect they don't.  Can someone answer this question?  

       

 

[Chancer]

Yes!

The answer is no!

[Bob T]

All BMW bikes have catalysts from new. I removed them from both our bikes to make them more economical.

If people are so anti bikes then why do they bother reading this part of the forum.

I have seen loads of bikes two up and loads of cars with a single occupant and no luggage.

There are NIMBYs everywhere!

[yello]

Well, I guess you've posted on the right forum to get your answers! Credit it to you for that!

Others are more knowledgeable on these matters and have given answers so I'll not pretend to know regulations chapter and verse. All I can say is that motorbikes do have to conform to noise and (now) emissions regulations. That some motorcyclists choose to ignore either or both is probably about as obvious as some motorists ignore regulations pertaining to the safety of their vehicles. And neither is the fault of either body as a whole nor of the regulating bodies.

I'm sorry you had your weekends ruined by noise. Sadly, it can happen when people participate in their chosen leisure/hobby activity. Same would be true if it were a classic car convention I expect, or a dog meet, or paint ball, any number of other activities that occur from time to time. I think we all have to tolerate the enjoyment of others on occasions, knowing that that tolerance is to be reciprocated at some stage.

[Alan Zoff]

I'm not a biker and am not particularly for or against. I would avoid buying a house too close to any sports venue that was likely to have regular events, because of potential traffic and noise problems. On the occasions that they have bike events at Magny-Cours, about 20 miles away, I actually enjoy the procession of bikes through our village. OK, a bit noisy perhaps, but for the few times it happens - all within daylight hours - I can live with it. And quieter than the tractors which are much more in evidence throughout the year!

[Sunday Driver]

Here's my Cat.....

[IMG]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w4/r850r/R850R-1Cat.jpg[/IMG]

Meiow......[;-)]

 

[raindog]

The average bike is far, far noisier than the average car. But I think it may be because most bikers are "enthusiasts" and will probably want more performance from their machine so will run a modified exhaust system which will be more "open" and therefore make more noise. When their bike was new, i'm sure it would have been less noisy.

I owned and rode many bikes in my youth and can't remember a single one that was quiet [:)]

nice machine sunday driver!

[cooperlola]

It always seems to me to be those horrible little bikes that make the most - and the most unpleasant - noise.

[Chancer]

Isn't your p u s s y in danger of getting singed?

[cooperlola]

Now, you leave my p**** out of this!

[Lizfjr]

You have to look really hard to see my husband's cat. Can't imagine it's very effective there though and might just stuff it up the exhaust to quiten things down a bit.

[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2081/1636350975_374688a21a.jpg[/IMG]

[Patmobile]

I don't live near any sort of sports venue.  I just happen to live a few hundred yards from an ordinary road that leads to Berck & Le Touquet.  The offensive noise comes from the spectators' bikes as they ride noisily to and from the events that are held on the beaches there.  Cars pass by with the faintest swishing noise, tractors with an almost imperceptible low growl.  Occasionally the sound of a large lorry can break through the birdsong and the rustle of the wind in the pines.  These noises are of short duration because the vehicles pass out of earshot within seconds. 

You can hear the shrieking motor bikes approaching half a minute before they get here - and for half a minute afterwards. 

Interestingly, no-one on this forum has yet been able to give any valid reason why bikes should not be made as quiet, or even quieter than cars.  That is because there is no logical reason.  No doubt biking is fun, but would it not be as much fun if the bikes were quiet? 

Bikers may be the nicest people, but they are selfish and self-deluding in their inability to recognise the damage their noise pollution does to the quality of life of the rest of the world. 

 

 

 

[Suze01]

[quote user="Lizfjr"]

You have to look really hard to see my husband's cat. Can't imagine it's very effective there though and might just stuff it up the exhaust to quiten things down a bit.

[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2081/1636350975_374688a21a.jpg[/IMG]

[/quote]

Lovely looking bikes.  Several friends of ours are bikers and they have bikes of this sort and yes they are quite quiet and don't appear to produce much pollution .  BUT, when I'm in my garden and a few lads from the village go up the lane on their 125cc motos I am nearly suffocated by the fumes and I'm sitting a good 75m away with the house and a big wall in between them and me and, they are very noisy too.

[pimpernel]

[quote user="Patmobile"]

 

Bikers may be the nicest people, but they are selfish and self-deluding in their inability to recognise the damage their noise pollution does to the quality of life of the rest of the world. 

[/quote]

 

Bikers are nowhere near as annoying as microlight aircraft.

[Bob T]

[quote user="pimpernel"][quote user="Patmobile"]

 

Bikers may be the nicest people, but they are selfish and self-deluding in their inability to recognise the damage their noise pollution does to the quality of life of the rest of the world. 

[/quote]

 

Bikers are nowhere near as annoying as microlight aircraft.

[/quote]

Being a biker and a microlight pilot, I find that peoples barking dogs, noisy children and hunters are intrusive. But I live and let live.

On a side note microlights are like anything else, they are only noisy when near the ground and that is near an airfield, so why buy a house near an airfield? I have a modern 4 stroke engine in mine, with water cooling and a 3 blade prop - I doubt if you would hear it if it were 1500 foot overhead.

A famous US singer bought a house near an airfield on the south coast of the UK. She tried to lobby the council to get flying from there banned, but failed. She then tried to buy the airfield, but the owners were wise and would not sell. They now have a fly in every year and call it the Madonna fly in. It may cause a bit of noise which annoys one person, but hundreds of people get enjoyment from it.

[pimpernel]

As far as I know, I live nowhere near an airfield. Yet I regularly have microlights flying over. They are not nice quiet 4 strokes but horrible buzzy two strokes. They take twenty minutes to arrive and twenty minutes to depart at an estimated 1000 to 1500 feet. I'll warrant, with the noise pollution they upset far more people than they give pleasure to. As for Madonna's neighbours, I think that if the fly ins were intentionally started to annoy her then the ignorance and total selfishness of the microlight community is self evident.

[raindog]

[quote user="Patmobile"]

Interestingly, no-one on this forum has yet been able to give any valid reason why bikes should not be made as quiet, or even quieter than cars.  That is because there is no logical reason.  No doubt biking is fun, but would it not be as much fun if the bikes were quiet? 

 

[/quote]

I tried to explain above that bikes are quiet when bought new but most bikers, with the exception of serious tourers, will modify the exhaust system to obtain more performance and, yes, more noise.

You seem to be describing an off road event, where some, if not all, the bikes will have competition exhausts with minimal silencing.

It's true, there's a certain ammount of selfishness riding noisy motorbikes. I did alot of off road riding when I first came to France and packed it in when I realized what a pain in the a**e I was being to walkers ejoying the countryside.

[Chancer]

[quote user="Bob T"][quote user="pimpernel"][quote user="Patmobile"]

[/quote]

[/quote]

Being a biker and a microlight pilot, I find that peoples barking dogs, noisy children and hunters are intrusive. But I live and let live.
[/quote]

Each to his own I guess, my bête noir is also "expressive" children, it usually starts on the ferry and doesnt cease until I return home.

I live next to an airdrome and opposite an aircraft factory, I am regularly overflown by microlights which I love to hear and am very jealous of, French military jets love to do low passes over the factory at sub-supesonic speeds, motorbikes love opening up as they pass to hear the echo off the factory then echo off of my property, all of these sounds I love, they usually are over in an instant.

I was woken on my first ever Sunday morning here by what sounded like a formula one race but was in fact highly tuned 2 stroke RC cars racing on the terrain de tennis behind me, again I loved it but sadly others didnt and lobbied the mayor to put a stop to it.

In this instance I think that it was a sensible decision as I was in the minority, and it was controllable ie someone was able to do something about it.

If the authorities do start controlling noise emissions with roadside tests on motorbikes I hope that they allow the mobylettes to continue with their open aftermarket pipes or removed baffles, to me it is an intrinsic part of both French and youth culture and more importantly a very good audible safety measure for these inexperienced riders.

[Patmobile]

[quote user="raindog"][quote user="Patmobile"]

Interestingly, no-one on this forum has yet been able to give any valid reason why bikes should not be made as quiet, or even quieter than cars.  That is because there is no logical reason.  No doubt biking is fun, but would it not be as much fun if the bikes were quiet? 

[/quote]

You seem to be describing an off road event, where some, if not all, the bikes will have competition exhausts with minimal silencing.

It's true, there's a certain ammount of selfishness riding noisy motorbikes. I did alot of off road riding when I first came to France and packed it in when I realized what a pain in the a**e I was being to walkers ejoying the countryside.

[/quote]

No, I can't hear the event, it's too far away, and anyway, I've nothing against people taking part in motor racing, flying, or biking events at the proper venues.

I'm complaining about the outrageous noise they make on the road, where they are noisier than any other type of vehicle that passes.  Why?

[raindog]

[quote user="Patmobile"][quote user="raindog"][quote user="Patmobile"]

Interestingly, no-one on this forum has yet been able to give any valid reason why bikes should not be made as quiet, or even quieter than cars.  That is because there is no logical reason.  No doubt biking is fun, but would it not be as much fun if the bikes were quiet? 

[/quote]

You seem to be describing an off road event, where some, if not all, the bikes will have competition exhausts with minimal silencing.

It's true, there's a certain ammount of selfishness riding noisy motorbikes. I did alot of off road riding when I first came to France and packed it in when I realized what a pain in the a**e I was being to walkers ejoying the countryside.

[/quote]

No, I can't hear the event, it's too far away, and anyway, I've nothing against people taking part in motor racing, flying, or biking events at the proper venues.

I'm complaining about the outrageous noise they make on the road, where they are noisier than any other type of vehicle that passes.  Why?

[/quote]

One more time:

I tried to explain above that bikes are quiet when bought new but most

bikers, with the exception of serious tourers, will modify the exhaust

system to obtain more performance and, yes, more noise.

[DerekJ]

In addition to raindog's reply I would also add that the noise you will hear will be different as the typical rev range of a motorbike engine is a lot higher. Whereas the typical red line rev range of a car is around 6000 rpm, many motobikes are redlined at 10,000rpm or even higher.