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Limit of CG de Collection


CharlesMeechan
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I've now gained the Carte Gris de Collection I've been gunning for on another post. Also the book of 'permissions' to move outside adjoining departments.

Just wondering if anyone knows the rules (can't see it on FFVE site) for taking the bike from France to another COUNTRY. Amusing really since I'm in department 74 and taking the Mont-Blanc tunnel leads me to... department Italy. I'm about to invent a rally meeting to take the bike to Breganze. But hey, there's a mechanic there I want to visit, so 2 blokes and a dozen bikes in his workshop should constitute a rally.

Also just about to get insurance for the bike - trying to make sure this covers more than one country despite the FFVE's restrictions. We'll see. Anyway I'm told rules change Jan 1 hopefully.

Thanks for any advice.
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You may travel outside France under a carte grise de collection, provided that you are attending an official rally/event to which you have been specifically invited. 

The 'restrictions' you mention are not those of the FFVE - they are imposed by the code de la route and the penalty for non compliance is a 135€ fine and immobilisation of the vehicle. 

Not only that - remember that false declaration that you will have lodged with the prefecture......

Article 441 – 6 du Code Pénal.

Le fait de se faire délivrer indûment par une administration publique ou par un organisme chargé d’une mission de service publique, par quelque moyen frauduleux que ce soit, un document destiné àconstater un droit, une identité ou une qualité ou à accorder une autorisation est puni de deux ans d’emprisonnement et de 30 000 euros d’amende. Est puni des mêmes peines le fait de fournir une déclaration mensongère en vue d’obtenir d’une administration publique ou d’un organisme chargé d’une mission de service public une allocation, un paiement ou un avantage individuel.

The FFVE are fiercely protective of their rights to issue official documentation for old vehicles allowing them to be used on the roads without having to meet current technical and safety standards, so they normally regard any abuse of the 'vehicle de collection' system with concern.

 

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The CGdC is an administrative concession for older vehicles which do not have type approval for normal road use in France.  It was originally designed to cater for vehicles manufactured prior to 1952 (or thereabouts IIRC) but without the necessary legal documentation, and as a result, the FFVE were authorised by the Ministry of Transport to issue type approval waivers for these old vehicles so that they could be registered.

Now that cars like 1970's VW Golfs are qualifying for these exemptions, there are supposed to be new rules in the pipeline pushing the age limit back to 30 years and in exchange for lifting the departmental driving restrictions, they are planning to reintroduce periodic CTs for all voitures de collection.

 

 

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Thanks for the comments. I've pleased to have at least a licence for the bike, a non collection Carte Gris ended up an impossibility. However, I think the collection rules are clearly bonkers and perhaps that's why they're being changed. First, the circulation tickets I have are not a REQUEST for permission to travel, they are simply paperwork stating an intention (albeit I can see your point Sunday Driver it should be a real one). Second, the opinion of French bikers and others here is that very very few policemen know of or enforce the regulations anyway. Thirdly now that I've got insurance, it covers other countries including Italy. So I take my bike out of one department (74) into Italy where no French police can possibly stop me anyway and no Italian plice will care. Perhaps my insurance - if they were to get VERY picky - would object to the lack of a declaration in the event I have an accident.

Given I'm a biker not a convicted criminal (yet) I'm sending nothing to FFVE and going on my way to Italy. By the time I get round to another long trip next year I hope the rules will have disappeared.

Key question:in whose interests is it to restrict where you drive a classic car or bike (ie you can't drive it freely, only to a rally)?. To prevent traffic congestion? To ensure your safety because the FFVE think the wheels might fall off? Given I can get Assistance for the bike, I can't see any sensisble reason in the restrictions.

Er, rant ends.

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I know what the legal position is but I still would not want to own a car I could not drive anywhere on a whim. I would not want to drive a car that could not pass a CT tomorrow let alone every two years.  The large increase in the number of roads with speed limits and regular decrease in the limits on roads plus the increase in the frequency and ferocity with which speed limits are enforced mean that vehicles which I would once have dismissed as too slow for touring in Europe now seem attractive. The advertisement in Gazoline and Retroviseur show a clear discount for cars with CGdC rather than CGN.

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[quote user="CharlesMeechan"]Key question:in whose interests is it to restrict where you drive a classic car or bike (ie you can't drive it freely, only to a rally)?. To prevent traffic congestion? To ensure your safety because the FFVE think the wheels might fall off? Given I can get Assistance for the bike, I can't see any sensisble reason in the restrictions. Er, rant ends.[/quote]

As mentioned earlier, the 'collection' scheme is administered by the FFVE, but the rules are fixed by the Ministry of Transport and set out in the code de la route. 

Remember, it was originally designed to allow old cars to be put back on the road - mostly wrecks without any paperwork - and the scheme meant that restoration of these motoring 'gems' became a viable possibility.  The scheme exempted them from regular safety tests, but on condition that they were restricted to local driving only.

That's the rationale behind the scheme and if owners of 'modern' high powered car/bikes wish to register them this way, then they have to accept the current restrictions.

 

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