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Scooters 50cc


mogsy
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Can an adult drive a 50 cc scooter in France when under a 6 month driving ban in UK ?

I understand you have to take a short course?

Do you need insurance and again is that obtainable without a current Driving Licence?
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I believe that the holder of a valid UK licence can drive in another EU country; the fact that you have been banned in the UK means that this is no longer applicable.

In France it is the vehicle that is insured, but there would be exclusions for drivers who are banned, and details of driving history will be demanded.

The solution here is to buy a "sans permis", one of those little single cyclinder diesel cars for which, as the name implies, no licence is required.

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You don't need any licence or short course (BSR) to ride a 50cc scooter if you were born before 1987 so if that is the case you don't need to produce anything other than proof of your age and the scooter registration documents to your insurance broker.

[quote]

Personnes nés avant le 31 décembre 1987

Elles peuvent conduire un cyclomoteur de 50 cm3 ou 4 kw ou une

voiturette sans formalité particulière qu'elles soient ou non titulaires

du permis de conduire.[/quote]

See here

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Good point Debra! I had forgotten this condition.

I wouldn't mind betting that the insurance is expensive. I just tried to do a quote online (Assurland.com) for a Peugeot scooter (just under 50cc), no licence, d.o.b. 1965, third party risks only, and the reply was that none of their insurers could offer cover. A visit to an agent would be required where I'm sure the full facts would have to be disclosed.

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We have 3 insured with AXA - €12 each per month.  (Two 5/6 year old Chinese models and an old Yamaha DT automatic).  That covers my husband and I and also any of our children who are old enough and have a BSR (presently only one of them).  We have to send a copy of the BSR as and when they pass it to ensure that they are covered.

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That sounds very reasonable for what is a high risk (for the younger riders); presuambly it's third party risks? Any questions about disqualifications when you took out the cover, or are there any conditions imposed on the drivers?

 I pay exactly twice that premium (EDIT ie 24€ pm) but mine is fully comp for an 800cc "sports tourer" motorcycle, but I've been riding since 1964! [;-)]

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If you want to get cover and ensure it's reasonably cheap, the trick is to insure with the same people who insure the majority of your other stuff. Originally, my scooter was insured with CA, but only after I'd tried a few others and they'd all said no, unless I moved my other insurance (house) to them.

So I phoned CA. "I'd like to insure a scooter" I said. "Sorry, we can't help" they replied. "What a pity" I said, "because a few other companies have said they CAN help, but that they would like all my other policies to move to them as well. I guess I'll just have to move from CA". "No need" they replied "Hold the line and we'll see what we can do".

It was still bloo** expensive, though!

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I wonder if they are accurately calculating the risks of the machines and also the riders?

There is no doubt in my mind that when I was 16 with a sports moped a suicide bomber would have been a better risk yet back then I paid £8 per year for fully comp cover [:-))]

The reason being before the advent of FS1E's and all the other sports mopeds what was available was intrinsically safe and very uncool, I profitted from the rates that were set according to the risk and also the means of those that had no other choice but to ride mopeds, motorcycles were pretty much the same story back then until the first sporty hondas.

Now I have friends that drive Jaguar XK8's (if thats the V6 one) that only pay £228 pa for their insurance but are forking out £3K a year for each their childrens first cars just for 3rd party cover.

Whilst I realise that myself and all my petrolhead friends were bad risks when we were young and had lots of accidents usually whilst racing on the highway one of my cronies recently asked me while discussing insurance "how much did we cost our insurance companies"? and the answer was zero, we were usually TPFT covered and usually hit the scenery, the loss of NCB was so severe to us that we allways repaired our own cars and in my case a couple of vehicles that I hit and also paid out to have a brick wall rebuilt. But of course back then whiplash compensation hadnt been heard of, I suffered a broken collarbone in one of my potes crashes and concussion in another rollover and never dreamed of claiming against them or their insurers although I guess it would have been possible.

I think that to a great degree these days insurers measure risk but also the depths of the pockets or the level of addiction of the customer, no-one needs to ride a mobylette or motorbike as a cheap means of transport these days, my 110bhp estate car has better fuel economy than my moped had or any current motorcycle and runs on much cheaper fuel, those that have motorbikes do it through choice as a leasure activity and are exploited as a consequence, those who can only afford a moped are penalised as a consequence, the same exploitation goes on with young drivers, no way could the insurers get their parents to pay £3K to insure their vehicles but they know that most cannot refuse their children.

Most of the above relates to UK insurers, in France they I believe that they have a law that says they cannot penalise a driver more than 100% of the basic premium because of their age or accident history, hence why the young and old pay around  €12 per month for mobylette cover which overall probably reflects the total risk of the 2 extremes.

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I agree with all that Chancer.

One of the things that contributes to "road sense" is riding a bike from an early age. This was the norm when I was a kid, I'd been out on the road on my pedal cycle from around 9 or 10 years of age. Of course the traffic was nothing like today, but by the time I reached 16 I was pretty streetwise as far as other raod users were concerned, but then I had to get used to the speed capability that a powered bike has, and all the new risks associated. Needless to say I had several spills, but survived! The road sense stood me in good stead for driving a car a little later. 

These days hardly anyone rides a bike on the road (in UK) so the basic learning element is missing. They go straight into driving a car.

This is one thing that's different here in France, nearly everyone seems to ride, or has ridden, a bike. I think it helps enormously.

 

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[quote user="sid"]

That sounds very reasonable for what is a high risk (for the younger riders); presuambly it's third party risks? Any questions about disqualifications when you took out the cover, or are there any conditions imposed on the drivers?

 I pay exactly twice that premium (EDIT ie 24€ pm) but mine is fully comp for an 800cc "sports tourer" motorcycle, but I've been riding since 1964! [;-)]

[/quote]It wasn't much more for fully comp and even a policy on the health and life of the rider but we kept it to a minimum of third party fire and theft (the latter two being a euro extra per month on top of the basic third party premium) as the premiums are stacking up what with 3 mopeds, a 125cc bike and three cars.  No questions at all just BSR for the youngsters as applicable.  As far as the kids go, I think the trick is to insure it in an adults name and then after that, say the kids will be riding it too.  If I insured a moped just for my 15 year old from the start I think it might be higher as I've heard some of his friends pay large premiums. 

The last time we went in to get the 125cc insured they recalculated the premiums for the mopeds because the cost for mopeds had gone down.  Pretty good of them, I thought.

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I was told by several different insurers that the primary reason for the high cost of scooter insurance in France is the high incidence of theft. Nowt to do with the rider. I'm well into my twilight years and it still cost a lot. The theft element, I suspect, is (as in the UK and as with motor insurance) something of a postcode lottery. Clearly, where I live, scooter theft is rife. [:D]

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[quote user="sid"]

That sounds very reasonable for what is a high risk (for the younger riders); presuambly it's third party risks? Any questions about disqualifications when you took out the cover, or are there any conditions imposed on the drivers?

 I pay exactly twice that premium (EDIT ie 24€ pm) but mine is fully comp for an 800cc "sports tourer" motorcycle, but I've been riding since 1964! [;-)]

[/quote]

With AXA I pay €209 PA "Tous risques" for a BMW R1200RT, it is going up to €220 this year; however my insurance office is looking at that (I reduced my €540 quote for a diesel Mini Clubman to €330 after showing quote from Mutuelle Poitiers). I have been riding continuously since 1975.

Vern
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Our son, who was 15 (now 16), was charged €30.80 PCM for his new Yamaha scooter. This is "tous risqué". AXA wanted over €1000 - a bit of a faff looking around but well worth it. We have 2 cars, a R1200RT & scooter - chasing decent affordable cover is a must, especially since No2 son will be taking over the scooter soon & No1 son progresses to a 125.
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Debra said: The last time we went in to get the 125cc insured

Re the 125cc's is this to ride with a UK car driving licence??? Or have you passed the 125cc test???? 

I ask, as my husband doesn't want to change his french licence to a UK one as his french licence says he can ride a 125cc bike. However, he cannot ride one in the UK..... as he hasn't passed a test for one, but if he changed over, it would not be shown on his new UK licence and he wouldn't be able to ride one if in France either.  Hope I have explained that clearly.

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We changed our UK licences and got the A1 stamped on our French licences.  It doesn't say via equivalence from the B1 but shows the A1 category, just as if we'd passed a test.  It depends upon when you got your licence, I believe.  If you have the right to drive a 125cc by equivalence by passing your car licence after a certain date you're supposed to do a 7 hour formation if you haven't ridden a bike in the last 5 years, but as our licences show the actual A1 permis stamped, we don't need to.

How would the DVLA know he hadn't passed the test if your husband exchanged it?  Answering my own question, maybe because there is a code that shows that the category was given in exchange for a UK licence?

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How would they know, because they would check up with the french authorities, as it is a separate test in the UK.

The DVLA seemed to believe that UK licence holders switching to french licences would have not have the 'right' to drive a 125cc motor bike automatically. And that is why I am curious as to how all this works.

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[quote user="Chezstevens"]

 With AXA I pay €209 PA "Tous risques" for a BMW R1200RT, it is going up to €220 this year; however my insurance office is looking at that (I reduced my €540 quote for a diesel Mini Clubman to €330 after showing quote from Mutuelle Poitiers). I have been riding continuously since 1975. Vern[/quote]

Vern, I thought I had done well, reducing my motorcycle policy from 32€ pm to 24€pm!  I can see that I'll have to try harder! [Www]

 

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Reverting the the question of road sense, which must affect the overall insurance premiums, my daughter has just emailed me a photo of our grandson aged 10½ with his bike just setting off for school. He has a small trailer on the back as he takes a trombone to school several times a week (school orchestra). Where is he?  In Germany where cycle paths are many and have traffic lights. The children have to pass a cycling proficiency test (done at school when aged 8 to 9) which is very formal and involves the police and only then are they allowed on cycle paths rather than the pavement.  He will progress to a Vespa scooter when old enough.

What a pity the UK, and France, cannot put the same effort in with cycle paths; good exercise for the children (my grandson does 8 to 10 km a day) and non-polluting.

Mrs H

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  • 5 months later...
Hi Debra,

I've just found this forum whilst researching driving in France, perhaps you can help me with a few questions..

I'm moving to france for few months and need some transportation. I did hear a rumor that you can ride a 50cc scooter there without a license, but is this the case for an English national in France? You mentioned just proving your age and scooter registration documents in a previous post....

One other thing, I can't yet drive a scooter, or a car for that matter. I do have a provisional drivers license though. So I guess what my real question is, is can a get hold of a scooter there and learn how to drive it there, or do I need to do a cbt test in England first?

Haha, would really appreciate your feed back - I don't have much clue on the matter..

Thanks allot!

Marlowe
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Yes, you can ride a 50cc scooter in France without any licence or requirement to do a course as long as you were born before 21 December 1987.   However, if you would like to do a course you can do the same BSR course that people born after that date have to do.  My stepdaughter just did it and it cost €190 and is now a seven hour course rather than a five hour course.  It's much like the CBT in England but on a scooter rather than a 125cc bike.  Now the new 'AM' category is out, rather than just getting a little photo card to show she did her BSR, my stepdaughter got a licence the same as my driving licence with the category AM on it. 

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