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Consumer rights in France...are there any?????


chilly
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[quote user="J.R."]Has anyone ever received a soothing, calming, sincere or bridge-building apology? By that I mean one without the helpless shrug gesture.

To put things in perspective they are few and far between in England these days, more often an "am I bothered?" or "do I look like someone that gives a 4X?"  expression.

[/quote]

The first paragraph describes a French Masterclass in 'Customer Service', without the apology part., but I've always got there in the end.[;-)]

The second paints a picture of an England I was in 6 months ago (and will return to next week) that I don't recognise.

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I do not recognise that picture of customer service in England either. 

Going back to an earlier post, when I have picked a "special offer" in Tesco which the till does not recognise because the offer is now over, but the staff forgot to change the "offer tags" on the shelf, I have always been refunded the cost and given the goods free as well as an apology.  This has happened to me three times in recent years. 

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 The Géant  in Aurillac is terrible at matching shelf price and till price and I used to resent being treated like a liar when, sometimes, an item

price does not match the till price...

They do have a manned (womanned!) service desk though, so I sometimes get my won back by deliberately picking up incorrectly priced (in my favour!) items  and then wasting their time when they have to call someone over, sending him/her to the shelf, only to have to refund the difference!

The best bargain I had that way was some lasure, which was priced at over €50 but had been offered on promo €28 the week before... One promotional poster was left on the shelf at the end of the promo and I managed to get several tins at the reduced price once I showed them where I'd picked them up from... big grin on my face!

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Oh dear, I had not intended for this to get 'personal' so perhaps I'd better explain myself a little better!!! I thought I had done in both my posts in that I simply wanted to encourage a decent debate about customer service as I was interested in others experiences and certainly do not expect people to always agree; I feel saddened that some people have taken it that way. Goodness knows why. I was frustrated at comments (and I wont quote as dont want to make this personal!), Like 'Chill out',  'expect too much' etc....having been invloved with customer service in the UK for many years I do have a little knowledge as to the difference between expecting too much and what I see as a 'lack' over here of much at all....hope this is a little clearer now and we can continue with what should be an interesting thread.

C

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The "Chill-0ut" was a joke - see what I wrote immediately afterwards and given the name and text colour you are/were using it was a blindingly obvious one. Nothing rude. I am sometimes accused of being too sensitive but good grief.

Customer service relates directly to expectations. If somebody expect a massive amount and only gets a lot they feel it is "poor". If somebody expects nothing and gets very little then they are over the moon. Thus how you rate customer service related directly to the level of service you expect.

As an example, either poor or good depending on what you expect; a few years ago I purchased a new modem and despite being from a major manufacturer it was not good at keeping a connection. After a month I got completely fed-up with it and returned it to the shop (in France). They gave me a credit note but I did not want to buy anything else so had a big argument about it and eventually got a cash refund. Given I had used it for a month maybe it was good customer service getting anything. However, maybe as I had to argue for cash rather than credit note it was poor - all depends on my expectations. Personally I think it was good given I had used it for a month but others may think differently.

A comment about expectations was a serious comment and NOT A PERSON AL INSULT !!

Ian

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[quote user="chilly"]...having been involved with customer service in the UK for many years I do have a little knowledge as to the difference between expecting too much and what I see as a 'lack' over here of much at all....[/quote]

I too have worked in the customer service industry for many years and I can see that, generally speaking, shops in France do not seem to grasp that their staff are seen as their representatives. If a shop assistant is sullen and uncooperative, the shop in general is viewed in the same way and the shopping experience is negative.

I have been told many times during training that old maxim that "an unhappy customer will tell 10 or more people but a customer whose problem has been happily resolved will tell 5 or 6 people"

Part of our training was to 'under-promise and over-deliver', lowering the expectations, thus appearing to over-deliver on the redress.

Managers/owners will eventually realise they have to pay as much attention to the "shop front" (staff and customer relations) as they do to their prices in order to retain their customers' goodwill.

Having said that, if they're in the wrong, legally they have to rectify it, but they do not have to apologise...although some do!
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A traditional mantra of retail staff in the UK was 'the customer is always right' sadly this seems slightly less popular now, but I was happy to hear that Waitrose and John Lewis were voted the best UK retailers http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6429627.stm both stores that give a good level of customer service.

(How Ikea got to the third slot is a mystery to me as frankly I think their system is very user unfriendly despite a good range of goods and if you do have a problem, from experience, they are not very helpful either)

I suspect that French customer service looks at things the opposite way to the UK, the retailer is right. It also seems that the retailer takes more responsibility in the UK while the problem is often shifted on to the manufacturer very early in the process in France, with goods being sent back, involving time delays etc.

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Some interesting comments, I think that Claire hit the nail on the head when saying "unhelpful staff reflect on the shop" and something about they do not have to give an apology.

Perhaps it is a management thing and that they do not feel part of the shop/team?

The treatment that I have received made me feel like the cashiers (and even the persons responsible for the price labelling) felt, its not my problem, I didn't cause it so no need to apologise?

The "shrug" seems to come after they have exhausted all other avenues of  blaming others, and is in lieu of  "yes I agree with you" or "I/We are sorry for your inconvenience"

My earlier comments about the "do I care?" attitude in the UK I should have clarified referred to (probably untrained and badly managed) teenagers doing Saturday and Sunday jobs. A typical conversation would be -

Customer "Excuse me, can you help me? I am looking for....."

Assistant "If you cant see it we aint got it!"

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[quote user="J.R."]

My earlier comments about the "do I care?" attitude in the UK I should have clarified referred to (probably untrained and badly managed) teenagers doing Saturday and Sunday jobs. A typical conversation would be -

Customer "Excuse me, can you help me? I am looking for....."

Assistant "If you cant see it we aint got it!"

[/quote]

Uncanny.  I was at Castorama at Le Mans last weekend looking for a roof ladder hook and wheel attachment, as I had seen one on their website.  Unable to find what I wanted, I went to the reception desk.

Customer "Excuse me, can you help me? I am looking for a roof ladder hook."

Assistant "If you can't see it we aint got it!"

Only difference being she was a lady of about 40 years of age rather than a teenager. [:D]

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[quote user="J.R."]My earlier comments about the "do I care?" attitude in the UK I should have clarified referred to (probably untrained and badly managed) teenagers doing Saturday and Sunday jobs. A typical conversation would be -

Customer "Excuse me, can you help me? I am looking for....."

Assistant "If you cant see it we aint got it!"

[/quote]

Are you talking about small shops in the UK?  The staff in big supermarkets seem to be trained to not leave your side until you have the desired item in your sweaty paw. Gone are the days when someone would point across 15 aisles and say 'it's down there next to the bleach'.  They escort you there, and unless you are very assertive, it's quite hard to shake them off.[;-)]

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[quote user="Cassis"]Customer "Excuse me, can you help me? I am looking for a roof ladder hook."

Assistant "If you can't see it we aint got it!"[/quote]

The roof ladder hooks were charmingly situated between the canary food and fishing tackle, last time I looked.[:P]

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And speaking of ladders................

I went to Gifi today, I wanted some hair accessories for the girls. Once I had located the stand i realised that the viewing area was rather compact as there was a high stepladder behind me. A quick weigh up of the situation and knowing thare wasn't anyone up the ladders I carried on looking at the hair stuff. I then heard Mr O say "look out " to me and he moved away.  There was a woman half way up the ladder with a HUGE storrage box , trying to put it on a shelf about 8 feet from the ground, she knocked some stuff off the shelf, which just missed me. When i exclaimed out loud about what had happened ...........she looked at me as though I should have appologised that I was in the shop!

does anyone remember my last shopping trip there for a wooden chopping board?

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[quote user="Tresco"][quote user="J.R."]My earlier comments about the "do I care?" attitude in the UK I should have clarified referred to (probably untrained and badly managed) teenagers doing Saturday and Sunday jobs. A typical conversation would be -

Customer "Excuse me, can you help me? I am looking for....."

Assistant "If you cant see it we aint got it!"

[/quote]

Are you talking about small shops in the UK?  The staff in big supermarkets seem to be trained to not leave your side until you have the desired item in your sweaty paw. Gone are the days when someone would point across 15 aisles and say 'it's down there next to the bleach'.  They escort you there, and unless you are very assertive, it's quite hard to shake them off.[;-)]

[/quote]

Tresco.

To be fair I have only spent short periods in the UK since 2004 so things may have changed but I have the same perceptions, the stores that I am talking about were the ones large or small (usually specialist or DIY) where the only staff that you can find are the teenagers manning the tills.

I do agree with you re looking for food items in supermarkets nowadays, soemthing that I have yet to experience in France.

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[quote user="Cassis"][quote user="J.R."][/quote]

Uncanny.  I was at Castorama at Le Mans last weekend looking for a roof ladder hook and wheel attachment, as I had seen one on their website.  Unable to find what I wanted, I went to the reception desk.

Customer "Excuse me, can you help me? I am looking for a roof ladder hook."

Assistant "If you can't see it we aint got it!"


Only difference being she was a lady of about 40 years of age rather than a teenager. [:D]

[/quote]

One other difference, my teenager did not know to use the apostrophe in "can't" like your lady did!

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[quote user="Tresco"]

[quote user="sweet 17"] am i the only person who sees signs like "potatoe's"?[/quote]

No. Lynn Truss made a fortune by writing a book about grocers apostrophes etc.[:)]

[/quote]

 

Is that grocers, apostrophes, etc.. grocers' apostrophes, etc., grocer's apostrophes, etc., or one of the other ones we don't talk about???[:D][:D] (Did SB run away to England with all your apostrophe supplies, BTW??)

 

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In our experience, the notion of goodwill in France is less common than in the UK:

Castorama shelf prices not always the same as at the till, and after buying a faulty tile cutter, we were told that we should have returned it within 4 days to have a replacement, instead of bringing it back within the first month to be told it would take weeks for repairs to be done! 

Also, we have had massive problems with Wanadoo - I had to feel sorry for the people working there last week, and at lunchtime I was sure there would be a fight in there, as 2 big blokes had the rep cornered in his office.  Many promises from them that someone will call back, but it never happens: result more 0.34 per minute calls to sort out the problems! 

Recently hubby ordered a new mobile online and waited for a week for it to arrive - eventually he gave up and phoned them, to be told that the model was out of stock and no idea when it would arrive.  Shortly after, the company emailed him asking for bank details (he had already given CC details online), photocopy of passport, loads of other stuff.... he wrote back saying he thought he ordered a phone, not an aeroplane!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

To update my earlier comments, yesterday I had yet another discussion in a shop regarding misrepresentation this time rather than pricing.

I have to say the lady concerned was excellent, very understanding and not a gallic shrug in sight, I don't actually think that she apologised for the problem but with her understanding and communication skills (and coping with my limited vocabulary) she didn't need to.

The shop was Geant, I had seen a Rowenta vaccum cleaner on promo, the photo showed the triangular suction head that I wanted, I had previously brrowed one and found it excellent for carrelage.

I couldn't find any in the shop and had to order it, I got a "bon de commande" and they phoned to say it was now available, when I got it I found that it had the standard suction head, she explained that it was a printing error, non contractual, that they had posted an erratum and I could purchase the head but for 35 euros more.

When we looked at the display shelf (now with the cleaner body only on it) the erratum was not there, she said that the promotion was no longer current even though it was still at the (alleged) reduced price.

She was actually much more reasonable than my description suggests, I did in fact buy the extra part and am hapy with the machine, I did however get the impression that she often has to deal with similar complaints regarding misleading publicity.

So far I have ben mislead by either the retailers or the manufacturers twice on Senseo machines when the exact model and colour in the photo was not available at the promo price but at 10 euros more and now on the Rowenta vacuum which not was not as illustrated but continues to be at the allgedly discounetd by 50 euro price after the promotion.

I had compared it to other models and did not think that it was 50 euros cheaper but was worth the money with the triangular suction head.

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One source of customer service problems in France in hypermarkets is that many chains operate their stores as franchises (Leclerc and Geant, for example). This means that the brand owners may not be able to influence staff behaviour in individual stores as much as, say, Tesco or ASDA. It also means that there are greater differences between stores in the same group than you would find in Britain.
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[quote user="Russethouse"]

A traditional mantra of retail staff in the UK was 'the customer is always right' sadly this seems slightly less popular now, but I was happy to hear that Waitrose and John Lewis were voted the best UK retailers http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6429627.stm both stores that give a good level of customer service.

(How Ikea got to the third slot is a mystery to me as frankly I think their system is very user unfriendly despite a good range of goods and if you do have a problem, from experience, they are not very helpful either)

[/quote]

Whenver I go into IKEA - both in th UK and France there always seems to me a large number of starry eyed customers for whom IKEA is a religion and the store their church.

Do not get me wrong I find the IKEA items that I have bought have assembled easily - the only thing make sure all the items of a paticular unit etc are in stock.

Therefore, I presume that the 'disciples' put them into 3rd place.

Paul

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I dont think UK customer service is "all that".

Asda/Tesco offer instant refunds etc because your repeat custom for £100 or so a week family food shopping is worth way more than a few quid loss due to a price error, but the danger is being too soft leads to abuse. I used to manage a car parts shop in the UK and people regularly took the proverbial by returning well worn items a few weeks short of their 1 year guarantee expiry. My response initially would be "wear and tear isnt covered" but they would just take matters to the company head office, who would invariably and unquestioningly refund or replace the parts in the name of "customer goodwill". Eventually I had to give up refusing them as the number of complaints to head office was reflecting badly on my store. I soon learned this was pretty much the norm for all our branches. Head office being over-eager to please was allowing many people to run their cars for nothing! I cant see that sort of thing beng tolerated in a French store, and quite rightly so.

Amusingly (well, it wasnt at the time) I once bought somethng from Argos. When I got home I opened the box to find the actual product a shoddy old piece of junk that was obviously a few years old. I imagine someone bought the item, put their old piece of junk in the box and returned it to store under their 14-day no quibble refund. The store obviously never checked the item properly before re-selling it. I returned to store to complain, and was taken aside by the manager. I was directly accused of doing this myself and they called the police. "Obtaining goods by deception" was talked about loudly untill finally common sense overcame the store manages shitty attitude and I was allowed to "go free", taking the old product with me. It took action by a solicitor to get my refund. I dont shop at Argos anymore - not that it was ever particularly enjoyable, who ever thought queueing twice for 1 purchase would be a good idea? I have since learned that its a pretty common occurance to buy things from stores, especially argos, who offer no quibble returns that are blatently second-hand. I heard about a Watchdog program on this, including delights such as second-hand electric toothbrushes.[+o(]

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Dave

That made me really laugh!

Why? Because about 20 years ago I bought a roll flat hose from argos, after about two weeks it ruptured (it was a piece of @@@ like your furniture) I had lost the receipt but had the credit card slip and my statement.

The manager might have been the same one given his attitude, I also was much younger, prone to get angry and less persuasive.

I left fuming and determined to get even, guess what I did?

You've got it! I bought a second hose, swapped the burst one and took it back for a money back refund as not wanted!

 

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