Parents Will

[John Brown]

My dilemma is my father has asked in his Will that my sister be allowed to live in his house in the UK and pay rent to me and my two other sisters

The cash is to be split four ways

Do I trust my sister to carry on paying rent ? ( she's single and on benefit ) No

Whats the best way forward

[idun]

I think that you would have to take her to court if she doesn't pay. Surely paying rent is part of the deal which she has to fulfill.

Speak to a UK solicitor, not your fathers and see what they say.

[KathyF]

The big obstacle here, John, is that if your sister is on LHA (what used to be called housing benefit) there are very strict rules about whether you can rent from a family member and receive LHA. Normally the property in question has to have been the subject of a regular commercial tenancy in the past before the family member would be permitted to rent it and receive the benefit/

I'm assuming that the house will be jointly owned by the 4 of you? Even if the authorities permitted your sister to rent from you while in receipt of LHA, the amount she is allowed as a single person is only meant to cover the average cost of renting one-bedroomed accommodation, so the rent received wouldn't be very high.

The reason I know about this is because of all the hoops we had to jump through before one of my siblings was allowed to rent what had been a holiday cottage we owned and receive LHA for it. In our case the property had had 2 lots of commercial tenants after we stopped using it for holiday rentals.

Other queries spring to mind such as who will be responsible for the upkeep of the property, including insurance, etc?  It can all be a minefield and lead to very bad family feeling, so I do urge you to take authoritative advice about this.  In your shoes I would so much rather sell the house and split the cash between you.

[Gardian]

Wills are a dilemma. Without wishing to tread on any toes, surely the issue is where the ownership of the property rests on your father's death? 

One can only presume split equally between the 4 siblings. Then it becomes complicated: what happens when one of you passes on? Does that 'share' pass to that individual's dependents? And so on, and so on ........

And then back to the level of rent. Is it fixed at £x / month? Is there an annual % increase and if so, linked to what? In a way, whether your sister actually pays when that time comes, is almost an irrelevence (when the rental is split three ways).

It's a minefield and needs professional advice. It just seems to me that your father needs to be told that his Will, however well-intentioned, has to be quite explicit over the myriad of 'what-ifs' that could occur. Otherwise, his good intentions will undoubtedly cause more pain than he intended.

[Gardian]

Sorry Kathy - simultaneous postings, but "minefield" came up in both our posts!!

Great minds and all that.

[Pommier]

Is your father still alive (ie can the will be re-written)?

Is the size/rental value of the house appropriate for your sister and her family?

[KathyF]

As an addendum to what I wrote above, it's just occurred to me to wonder whether your sister would be eligible to receive housing benefit for a house of which she owns a quarter share.  I very much doubt it. If she relies on LHA to pay her rent, then no LHA = no rent for you.

[John Brown]

Thanks for all the comments. All very helpful.

Yes, Pommier, my father is still alive but at 86 he has reached a point where he feels the need to put his affairs in order.

His intentions are well meaning because he sees my youngest sister ( 52 ) as needing some security. The other 3 of us have houses.

She is bone idle, wastefull with money and deserves her lot. She has a son, long term sick, who is following in her footsteps, who will live there too

The house has 3 bedrooms.

[Polremy]

If I were in your father's position I think I would give a quarter share to each of my children.

Either the house would be sold or one of the children could buy the others out.

However, knowing that my 52-year old daughter was not good with money, I might take some precautions to provide her with some sort of security but not with cash which she would (presumably) squander.

[Pommier]

If there's any way to persuade your father to change his will, I think it'd be best for all of you. I think that owning a quarter share of a house could cause problems to your sister as she's on benefits, and it'll just give the rest of you grief as you'll end up paying all the maintenance, insurance etc.

[John Brown]

I'm going to try and convince my Dad that each of us owning a quarter share in a house will cause more problems than it solves and that it could effectively cost my sister her benefits.

Lets hope he doesn't then decide to leave the whole lot to her.

Thanks for all the advice

 

[Gardian]

You have my sympathy in a not uncommon family situation. You've had a number of suggestions as to how to proceed and each has it's merits.

I would just urge you to:

• With the leads that you've got (particularly from Kathy), consult all the involved parties upfront (even your 52yo sister, who has after all, a say). At least then, nobody can accuse you of acting behind their back.
• Then .............. take that professional advice. Any halfway decent solicitor will have 'seen it all before' and can advise accordingly.
• Then talk to your father about the best way forward, once (hopefully) all the beneficiaries are agreed.

Best of luck.

 

 

 

[John Brown]

Thanks Gardian

This issue came about after a phone conversation with my Dad when he asked me about giving someone " no prizes for guessing who" Power of Attorney. This was "To aid smooth things over after the Will". I looked into it and told him that Power of Attorney and Enduring Power of Attorney both stop immediatley on death, so it would aid nothing.

He agreed to give that a miss.

There's a considerable amount of cash involved as well. So call me cynical if I'm a bit hard on my "vulture" sister

[Russethouse]

If your sister inherits a lot of cash wont she stop being eligible for benefit anyway ?

[NickP]

Might even be worth considering that what your father wants should be number one priority, rather than thinking what you want. I would imagine the lawyers are already queueing up to get their hands on the issuing of this will and the consequent in fighting. The way this is shaping up I can only see everybody losing out financially, except of course the legal vultures.  

[cooperlola]

Oh, Nick that's just what I was thinking!

Having had a "wayward" sister myself I get John's position but no child can run the life of his/her parents or siblings.  Practically, I think it might work out best if the whole  "estate" were just split four ways then the house could be sold and everybody left to spend their portion on what they want and not pass judgement on what the others do with theirs or how they live.  I guess it's virtually impossible for a father not to want to protect the most vulnerable of his children but I reckon it's quite tough to do from beyond the grave.  If your sister had a bit of capital of her own, John, with no family strings attached then you never know - she might surprise you all.

[Mr Ice-ni]

[quote user="John Brown"]My dilemma is my father has asked in his Will that my sister be allowed to live in his house in the UK and pay rent to me and my two other sisters
The cash is to be split four ways
Do I trust my sister to carry on paying rent ? ( she's single and on benefit ) No

Whats the best way forward


[/quote]

Typical, a sniff of a wallet and it's me, me, me. If I were your father my response would be "FOAD, it's my money I will do with it as I wish - if you don't like it I can always split it 3 ways instead of 4".

John

[cooperlola]

Deleted

[John Brown]

Mr Ice-ni,

Sounds like you would make a good partner for my sister. I'll put you in touch if you want [:P]

You can visit her in jail when she gets done for benefit fraud.

I do hope you still pay UK Income Tax

I will take comfort in knowing you are paying towards her 2 horses, 3 dogs, a new Jeep to suppliment her mobility car and a brand new horsebox not to meantion her many overseas holidays. Not bad for someone that can't walk without sticks !

[Russethouse]

Doe your father own another property as well as the one he wants your sister to inherit ?

[cooperlola]

I have just got back from a trip to the UK, ostensibly to sort out and take on power of attourney for my nearly-90-year-old mother.  After a lot of thought and soul-searching, I backed out of it in the end. I really didn't want to take responsibility for any of her financial decisions because I don't want to be blamed for doing anything in the least bit self-serving nor, quite honestly, do I want or need any of her property (with the exception of some photos of my late sister and father.)  Is it really wise for you, JB, to get involved in this process, apart from putting your father in touch with a good solicitor? 

[John Brown]

I've told my father that I would not want to get involved in being Power of Attourney for him for the same reasons you state. ( I didn't ask , my sister did ) Its bad enough being named as Executor in the will.

I don't want or need his money but if he chooses to leave it to her, so be it. My other sisters will probably never speak to me again for not warning them but that would cause murder now!

Only the one house, why ?

I've edited my comments above to Mr Ice so you can see where I stand on this

[Mr Ice-ni]

[quote user="John Brown"]

I've edited my comments above to Mr Ice so you can see where I stand on this

[/quote]

You mis-understand me, I do not know so do not support your sister in all this. My comments came from reading your various posts as implying  that you are missing out on something that is your father's to do with as he wishes.

I just wish I had the imagination and stones to rob the system in the way that you say your sister does.

John

[NickP]

Would be rather good to hear the other side of this storey from Mr Brown's sister. I would also suggest that you stop mud slinging,  for you to talk about your sister like you have on a French forum is in my opinion out of order. To me; I think your rant borders on slander but then maybe thats the idea and she wont read it. I'm very impressed that you are not at all concerned with getting anything out of your Fathers will, [Www] but as I said earlier this is your fathers business, although you seem hell bent on stopping your sister getting what your father wants. Sorry, but the more you contribute to this "thread", to me the worse you appear.

[KathyF]

[quote user="Mr Ice-ni"]

Typical, a sniff of a wallet and it's me, me, me. If I were your father my response would be "FOAD, it's my money I will do with it as I wish - if you don't like it I can always split it 3 ways instead of 4".

John

[/quote]

I didn't read John's original post that way at all. As executor he will be responsible for carrying out his father's wishes as expressed in his will. The problem is that what his father has in mind may not work out as he intends, for all the reasons already given. One of his father's wishes is that rent should be paid to the siblings not living in the house. I don't really see that as me, me, me....