Have you been affected by les blocages where you live?

[alittlebitfrench]

So basically what you are saying Mr Brit is that those Gillet Jaunes protesting over the cost of living are talking nonsense and everything is fine in France because you know someone who drives a BMW and has a nice garden and buys lots of stuff.

I guess you also think that the recent report in La Figaro that said 74 % of French people have lost their purchasing power is a complete load of rubbish.

If you believe the stats 50 % of the population are living below or on the edge of the poverty line. We fall into the next 24 % of the population and your friends fall into the last 26 %.

Not really representative are they your friends ?

Told you before Mr Brit I lived 8 years rural. I would still be there had SNCF not closed our local railway line.

If we lived in Brittany on our income we could afford a big house and drive BMW's. Lovely. Here, we survive....just even though (according to the taxation system) we are in the top (ish) income bracket.

Put us into Paris (family of 5) and we would be in poverty. We would never survive. We tried for two years. That means my OH has to commute. Which is the like commuting from Newcastle to London.

There are a lot of middle class people who have been forced into poverty because of taxation and the cost of living. That bracket is getting bigger and bigger every year. That is the problem. That is why people are protesting from all walks of life.

Then we have the retirees who have become a massive target for Mr Macron !!! There taxation is changing as well.

Then next year people will be taxed directly from their salaries and already economists are predicting an even more loss of purchasing power.

But I am happy to learn about your friends.

[nomoss]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"] ..............

I guess you also think that the recent report in La Figaro that said 74 % of French people have lost their purchasing power is a complete load of rubbish.

If you believe the stats 50 % of the population are living below or on the edge of the poverty line. ...................................[/quote]

Hmm. The percentage seems to have increased a lot since September!

[url]http://www.lefigaro.fr/economie/le-scan-eco/dessous-chiffres/2018/09/13/29006-20180913ARTFIG00001-pauvrete-en-france-les-chiffres-a-connaitre.php[/url]

[alittlebitfrench]

Well lets try BFM then...

https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/pour-74percent-des-francais-leur-pouvoir-d-achat-a-baisse-ces-derniers-mois-1556807.html

Or here...

https://www.ouest-france.fr/economie/impots-fiscalite/le-pouvoir-d-achat-en-baisse-selon-74-des-francais-6045877

[nomoss]

I was referring to your figures for poverty, which are ridiculous.

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]...........

If you believe the stats 50 % of the population are living below or on the edge of the poverty line............[/quote]

But according to the publication you referred to, which I linked to above, the level was 14% in 2016, and I do not believe your statement that it is 50% now.

From Le Figaro (13/09/2018) :-

• Un taux de pauvreté à 14%

En 2016, le taux de pauvreté était de 14%, en baisse de 0,2 point par rapport à 2015.

[EuroTrash]

EU poverty stats here

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Income_poverty_statistics

No state is anywhere near 50%. France looks better than average.

Yes spending power is on a downward trend at the moment but spending power always fluctuates short term, every month when they work it out they find it has gone either up or down. It's only when the downward trend doesn't show any signs of reversing that it becomes a cause for concern. But it hasn't actually been going down for 10 years or so as ALBF seems to think.

[alittlebitfrench]

Mint said earlier in the thread:

"I heard a tv comentator recently saying that the MEAN income for working people in France is just a bit over 20 thousand a year (about 1 700 euros a month). So, if you have 20 grand a year, you are amongst the TOP 50% of people in France! I found that a bit hard to believe but, listening to ALBF, I reckon that that commentator has indeed checked his figures"

I also said that my Sister in Law's family earns about 2500 euros per month and they have to dig into their savings each month to survive.

That is before what happens next year which I have already described earlier.

I think an average family needs a good 2800-3000 euros per month in France to 'survive'. Blow that you are scraping.

Throw into the equation a financial problem with your car, house etc etc and you are in shît.

There is a big disparity on what is measured as being poor by the govt and what life is like in reality.

[Lehaut]

Lived here for 22 years, brought up two children and have never had the income you think an "average family" need. Never had to scrape to get by either.

A packet of cigarettes a day will buy you a good meal for a family of 4/5. Some people make their own poverty.

Retires quickly.

[alittlebitfrench]

Im guessing you arrived in France with no Mortgage or having to pay rent. I am just guessing here.

So if that is the case wack on another 800 (if you rent) or 1300 euros for a mortgage.

Also, 10-20 years ago is irrelevant. Life was cheap then.

[EuroTrash]

Here are the latest figures on average income, so we don't have to rely on what Mint heard someone say on TV, and historic figures going back to 1995.

https://www.journaldunet.fr/patrimoine/guide-des-finances-personnelles/1166094-salaire-moyen/

Nice steady year on year rise. If you look further down, it also show cost of living v. salaries. 1995 and 2012 were the only two years when inflation increased more than salaries.

But ALBF lives in a different France to the rest of us and I guess it's all different there.

[alittlebitfrench]

Those salaries do not exist in rural France and I am sure those salaries are distorted by Paris and other very large cities.

Secondly, not everyone is employed. A lot of people are self employed.

My sister (again) is a professional liberale and probably earns the average salary but she is massively hit on tax because of her business regime.

It is not so simple ET.

[EuroTrash]

Here's the budget for a family with one child living contentedly on less than 2k a month and managing to save as well.

https://www.parents.fr/etre-parent/psycho-parents/laure-et-julien-1-enfant-1900-eu-par-mois-79226

[BritinBretagne]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]So basically what you are saying Mr Brit is that those Gillet Jaunes protesting over the cost of living are talking nonsense and everything is fine in France because you know someone who drives a BMW and has a nice garden and buys lots of stuff.

I guess you also think that the recent report in La Figaro that said 74 % of French people have lost their purchasing power is a complete load of rubbish.

If you believe the stats 50 % of the population are living below or on the edge of the poverty line. We fall into the next 24 % of the population and your friends fall into the last 26 %.

Not really representative are they your friends ?

Told you before Mr Brit I lived 8 years rural. I would still be there had SNCF not closed our local railway line.

If we lived in Brittany on our income we could afford a big house and drive BMW's. Lovely. Here, we survive....just even though (according to the taxation system) we are in the top (ish) income bracket.

Put us into Paris (family of 5) and we would be in poverty. We would never survive. We tried for two years. That means my OH has to commute. Which is the like commuting from Newcastle to London.

There are a lot of middle class people who have been forced into poverty because of taxation and the cost of living. That bracket is getting bigger and bigger every year. That is the problem. That is why people are protesting from all walks of life.

Then we have the retirees who have become a massive target for Mr Macron !!! There taxation is changing as well.

Then next year people will be taxed directly from their salaries and already economists are predicting an even more loss of purchasing power.

But I am happy to learn about your friends.[/quote]

Friends? I was talking about family. I was answering one bizarre argument you made, you have replied talking about something else all together. Talking about together, that’s what you need to do with your thoughts.

My family do not live in a rural situation, they live in a town with a 30 minute commute to Paris. Property prices are higher than in my rural area but so are wages. That’s the way it works. Some people in rural areas have good salaries, my doctor has just bought an €80,000 car and the young family that live opposite my house seem to have a pretty good lifestyle. They do both work and she commutes to our nearest large town daily but they so obviously have a decent disposable income. You talk about digging into savings, have a look at the UK figures for savings and debt, savings are worrying low (from a government perspective) and household debt not including mortgages is in the region of £30000.

As I pointed out before, it’s you who lives in a bubble protected from the outside world.

[Judith]

You peeps need to go live in a suburb of Paris or Lyon for a while.

Try the centre of London for 20 years.  We survived. Went back last week, gues what, prices have gone up there too.  You cut your coat according to your cloth, if you still can't manage, you cut again ... no surprise there.  And yes, we had a mortgage then as well, on only average or less salaries, and yet, surprise, surprise, we survived.  People do, except it seems, for ALBF.

[EuroTrash]

"My sister (again) is a professional liberale and probably earns the average salary but she is massively hit on tax because of her business regime."

She must be in your world not mine then.

I am also self employed profession libérale as you know very well. I earn around the average salary and I don't consider myself massively hit on tax because of my business regime. I'm a member of a professional syndicat so I meet lots of colleagues at meetings, some earn more than me and some earn less, but none of them seem to consider themselves massively hit by taxes. Saying that, of course everyone takes taxes seriously and at every syndicat function there is usually some detailed discussion of what business regimes we use and what works best in what circumstances. As said before, it's important to understand the system in detail and make the right choices, because if you make a bad choice of regime you will be putting yourself at a disadvantage and paying more tax than you need. But I have never heard anyone in the syndicat wingeing about the level of taxation being unfair. You have to face it ALBF, we all pay taxes and the more you earn the more taxes you pay, so you have to cut your cloth according to what you have left. If you honestly think you'd have more money if you earned less, why not suggest to your wife that she gets a lower paid job or works fewer hours. We all have choices.

[BritinBretagne]

If he believes what he writes I do not understand why he is bringing up his children in France. He has every opportunity to move to his land of easy riches, higher living standards and Tescos. The fact that he remains in France suggests to me that his wife is better informed.

[EuroTrash]

I've just had a brilliant idea for a plot for a novel.

Pretty foreign girl comes to UK, marries British student and takes him back to her country. He becomes a house husband and she gives him a tiny housekeeping allowance and no personal spending money. Taking advantage of the fact that he's not totally fluent in the langage, she and her family and friends form a conspiracy to make him believe that taxation in that country is so high that she simply can't afford to give him any more.

I haven't worked out yet what the motive behind it might be, but I think the storyline has potential.

[alittlebitfrench]

Oooh ! lol

So basically the advice from the 'complete france forum' guru to the gillet jaunes is...

"If you 'google it' you will realise that you have never had life so good. These increases in living costs and taxes are imaginary. So now get back to work...if you have one.

If you are not convinced go and see how much sandwiches cost in Tescos in London.

Stop complaining"

Yours Brit and ET

It does amuse me to see how little expats know about the day to day living in France. You make life seem so simple.

Shall we talk about what is happening with pensions now ?

Or do you not watch/read the news ?

[BritinBretagne]

Oh dear another change of track. If you want to understand our posts read what we have written.

[EuroTrash]

"It does amuse me to see how little expats know about the day to day living in France."

You are right of course. Apart from living in France day to day for the last 10 years, I know nothing at all about it.

Actually my advice to the gilets jaunes is: It's autumn and that's demo season in France, so by all means go for it and try to get a better deal for The People. Have a jolly time setting up tents and barbecues by the roundabouts and holding all the cars up. No skin off our noses to put our gilets on the dashboard and we don't mind stopping for two minutes to support you and have a laugh and a joke with you. You have hit on an winner with the gilets jaunes idea, well done. Big up the problems to make your point, you have to do that, but don't get carried away with your success to date and lose your sense of proportion. Life for ordinary people isn't so bad that we need another revolution just yet.

ALBF, have you actually chatted to the gilets jaunes when you get held up? They're not desperate, starving people. They're obviously having great fun. Yes they have a Cause, but basically they're demonstrating because it's what you do, and it's fun.

[alittlebitfrench]

Brit told me to read the posts...so I picked up on this:

ET said ''If you honestly think you'd have more money if you earned less'..

That is a strange one coming from you.

Yes, there is a situation within a self employed business structure whereby if you worked more hours you go into another tax branding so in effect you earn less for working more hours.

Next question.

[EuroTrash]

I don't understand your question because how many hours you work is nothing to do with anything if you're self employed, but I think maybe you need to study how tax works.

When your earnings go into a higher tax band, you only pay higher tax on earnings IN THAT TAX BAND. You don't pay higher tax on earnings in the lower tax band.

I don't remember what the bands are but say 30k puts you into the next tax band. So you pay higher tax on anything you earn over 30k. But anything you earn up to 30k is still taxed at the lower rate. If you earn 32k you pay lower rate tax on 30k and higher rate tax on 2k. So yes, as I think I've said previously, you don't get proportionally more in your pocket. But you get slightly more, and you certainly don't get less.

I'm out of it for the day now because I have a deadline to meet.

[alittlebitfrench]

You charge per customer (like a medical professional lets say) working independently.

There is point when having one extra customers costs you more in tax than you would get back in the revenue they pay.

If that makes sense. There is an equilibrium. Working harder and having more customers will cost you more.

Another one.

If ALBF (househusband) went to work (not that I don't) it would cost us more financially. Work that one out.

P.S we don't claim or entitled to any benefits.

[woolybanana]

Albf, you mean you dont claim your child allowances or the children’s part of your tax bill, or those quite generous allowances for school equipment at the beginning of the school year?

And with another baby in tow, there must be a ton of birth allowances, plus more tax advantages, allowances etc.

I think you really mean that you do not have enugh money to do everything you want to, all the time. Well, noe of us does, except perhaps Norman. We all have to save for things etc.

[nomoss]

I think you are wasting your time arguing with ALBF.

He doesn't seem to understand statistics, basic accounting principles, nor how the taxation system works, and he can't stick to his lines of argument.

Maybe that's why he stays at home[:D]

[alittlebitfrench]

I will have to check Wolly but I don't think we are entitled to child allowance... that changed. We are out of that bracket...or it is very minimal.

Yes you claim off your tax bill the 'parts' of your family. A 3rd child is worth two parts...I think.

No school book/pencil allowance.

Talking of 'parts' I learnt that if your partner dies when you are retired then you become a single person again and then taxed higher accordingly. That is a bit unfair ???

Also, they want to change the pension rules so that the partner of the deceased will be taxed on the pension of the deceased.

Double whammy.

It is not just the middle aged that are getting hammered.

P.S I am not talking about our situation. We are fine.

But I have complete empathy with France and people on lower incomes. How they managed, I don't know.