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Henry the cheater


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[quote user="Richard"][quote user="UlsterRugby1999"][quote user="Northender"][quote user="Chancer"]

It is only another game, albeit mediatised and commercialised, why do people get so worked up about it?

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1 "Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that." Bill Shankly

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I remember that. Shanks was a great man and a great leader. I was a boys pen lad in those days. God he walked on water. [:D]

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And the only manager both Evertonians and Liverpuddlians both respect together. Think he ended up being more Evertonian in the end after the way Liverpool treated him.
[/quote]

When Shanks died, I went to the gathering in St Johns Square (I think it was - so long ago now) and I saw a sea of red and white and blue and white scarves all standing together and grown men crying. I was only a wean/wayin (child) at the time but it was one of the most amazing sights I've ever seen. Dont see things like that in football these days. More's the pity.

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Bonjour, je suis français.

Honte à la France, Henry a triché en faisant une main. Vous, les Irlandais, vous ne devez pas vous laisser faire, vous devez agir et demander une disqualification de la France. LA FRANCE DOIT SE RETIRER DU MONDIAL, elle vous a volé vos chances et tous vos espoirs.

SORTEZ LA FRANCE, HONTE A LA FRANCE, HONTE A LA TRICHERIE. REAGISSEZ PEUPLE D'IRLANDE, ne vous laissez pas voler la victoire par cette tricherie odieuse !!

Beaucoup de Français sont contre cette équipe dont le capitaine à triché, beaucoup de français ont honte et sont avec vous, alors agissez sur les médias, remuez ciel et terre, mais la France ne doit pas VOLER VOTRE MATCH, il s'agit d'une coupe du monde !! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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[quote user="Richard"]Agreed Ulster. Even with Hillsborough 20 years ago, there was a togetherness. Don't think it's there anymore unfortunately.

I take it you're a red? I'm a blue.[/quote]

I used to be a passionate Red Richard but I've lost 99% interest in soccer these days. Just, as the name suggests its rugby. Strangely I was a much better footballer than I ever was a rugby player but I am so passionate about my rugby (its an age thing maybe [;-)]). I loved standing in the boys pen and watching my, then, heros. Ray Clemence (I was a keeper) Keegan, Toshack, Heighway - ah man. The derby matches were the best ever although I was never at Goodison despite the fact that we could see it from the pen. Strange eh?

Some of the best humour and banter came from those matches. If only I'd written it all down I could be a ............................. [:D][:D]

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[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]

[quote user="Richard"]Agreed Ulster. Even with Hillsborough 20 years ago, there was a togetherness. Don't think it's there anymore unfortunately.

I take it you're a red? I'm a blue.[/quote]

I used to be a passionate Red Richard but I've lost 99% interest in soccer these days. Just, as the name suggests its rugby. Strangely I was a much better footballer than I ever was a rugby player but I am so passionate about my rugby (its an age thing maybe [;-)]). I loved standing in the boys pen and watching my, then, heros. Ray Clemence (I was a keeper) Keegan, Toshack, Heighway - ah man. The derby matches were the best ever although I was never at Goodison despite the fact that we could see it from the pen. Strange eh?

Some of the best humour and banter came from those matches. If only I'd written it all down I could be a ............................. [:D][:D]

[/quote]

I've yet to get to GP myself to watch a match there despite being a toffee for over 25 years! One day I'll get up there. Love to see a merseyside derby, but tickets will be nigh impossible to get hold of I guess.

I was rubbish at football myself. Rugby too for that matter.

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I am struggling to see the difference between the game (I wish I could find a better word) of football where the millionaire players, managers and clubs cant actually lose financially, and from where I am sitting that is what they are in it for, and say Pop Idol.

Now if the players were amateurs and had saved up and raised money from family and friends to go to the Olympic games for example I could understand the furore. .

The actors in this drama are laughing (at the mugs who pay to view, go to matches or buy the strip) all the way to the bank.

Honestly I cannot see what the fuss is about.

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Well, talk about whingeing, the game is over, France are through and like all football results, you cannot change anything about it.

Eye in the Sky someone said, the football moguls will not allow this, irrespective of how good and sensible it is.

There will always be controversy about ' that penalty, he was offside, it was a goal and he did dive the cheating b"*^+rd, but at the end of the day nothing will change. And perhaps that is the best way forward, leave it well alone and give the guys on tv and down in the pub something to argue about....................hang on a minute, that makes me a hypocrite according to my opening statement..... Aah guys i guess that's just football eh, win lose or draw we can't help but moan about it [:'(]

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Well sharkhunter, this is exactly why I don't want video replays in football. It would remove too much controversy and there would be far less debates.

Sure, maybe have another couple of officials like they're trying in the Europa Cup, but it's controversy like this that makes footy all the more enjoyable.

Better to have a moan about something that doesn't really matter that much and to get on with stuff that does.

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[quote user="Richard"]Well sharkhunter, this is exactly why I don't want video replays in football. It would remove too much controversy and there would be far less debates.

Sure, maybe have another couple of officials like they're trying in the Europa Cup, but it's controversy like this that makes footy all the more enjoyable.

Better to have a moan about something that doesn't really matter that much and to get on with stuff that does.[/quote]

Poetry - pure poetry Richard. Love it [;-)][:D][;-)]

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[quote user="hontalafrance"]Bonjour, je suis français. Honte à la France, Henry a triché en faisant une main. Vous, les Irlandais, vous ne devez pas vous laisser faire, vous devez agir et demander une disqualification de la France. LA FRANCE DOIT SE RETIRER DU MONDIAL, elle vous a volé vos chances et tous vos espoirs. SORTEZ LA FRANCE, HONTE A LA FRANCE, HONTE A LA TRICHERIE. REAGISSEZ PEUPLE D'IRLANDE, ne vous laissez pas voler la victoire par cette tricherie odieuse !! Beaucoup de Français sont contre cette équipe dont le capitaine à triché, beaucoup de français ont honte et sont avec vous, alors agissez sur les médias, remuez ciel et terre, mais la France ne doit pas VOLER VOTRE MATCH, il s'agit d'une coupe du monde !! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[/quote]

 A bit over the top. What did you do? Cut and paste from another forum and join up here just to say that? Time waster as proved by your username!

The French people I have talked to are disappointed in Henry and disappointed with qualifying in this way but replay the game ? No way! They are already buying the new shirt!

Why should France pull out as you suggest or be disqualified? No-one has suggested that in the media, only another game at SDF,

Allez les bleus!

 

 

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Agreed, it would be silly to replay the game again. Many games have ended unjustly like Wednesay night's did. It's part and parcel of the game. Most of the top players cheat consistently - Drogba, Ronaldo, Gerrard to name a few high profile names.

And let's face it, didn't England not win the 1966 World Cup final in highly dubious circumstances? That 3rd goal did not cross the line. Had it not been given, who knows what the final outcome would have been?

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I have been following this in the French papers and in particular La Figaro. The French run true to form in that nobody wants to take responsibility or make a decision, they wait for somebody else to do it. By this I mean that since the match many have said its a disgrace for France, the government should get involved (why?) etc, etc. They all wait for Fifa to make a decision and then the mood changes. First they say it was allowed because the ref allowed the foul by Shay Given on Nicolas Anelka (didn't watch the game so I don't know if this is true). Then they go further to comment on games where other countries have been knocked out due to bad referees decisions (or lack of them). Some go on and pick on fouls Ireland have committed in the past that allowed them to win a game. It seems strange that now Fifa have made their decision the French have changed their attitude.

I don't think we were ever going to get a replay for more obvious reasons. Fifa is the head of one of the largest and richest global industries in the world, football. Games are arranged so far in advance both nationally and internationally that you can't just call the players back which is why they have a penalty shootout to get a result. This to my mind is more to do with money than anything else. Personally it seems to me that if you want to sort it out (I am a rugby man and don't watch football) the obvious decision is to cancel the goal then do what would happen next as it was at the end of extra time, have a penalty shootout. This would be quick, can be done any time anywhere.

Anyway judging by the amount of comments about which teams have won by 'cheating' (there words not mine) I think there should be three major changes to international football. The first (and I know you will see this coming) is video refs. This works well in rugby, we are all used to it by now and would stop people digging up the past about who cheated in which game etc. Don't forget that ref on the pitch still has the final decision regardless of what video ref says. The second, just like rugby have a 10M rule for dissent towards the ref. The ref only talks to the captains and if other players ignore him telling them to go away he simply moves the free kick 10M forward and keeps doing so till, in the case of football, he gets to the penalty box. Thirdly I think that with the aid of the video ref those caught taking a dive should get an immediate red card.

Did Henry deliberately handball, well for me the first touch was an accident the second a definite redirection of the ball and whilst it was not him that scored the player who did would not have done so if Henry had not deflected the ball deliberately. I can understand the temptation for Henry to do what he did, it was a gift and will probably never happen to him again. What he forgot about was the TV cameras else he would probably have gotten away with it. His shame is that he has only half come clean by, to my mind, only admitting the accidental first touch and not the deliberate second one. One thing we can do in rugby is penalise a player after the match if a complaint has been made like a match ban for one or more matches. Not knowing football rules I don't know if you can do this.

So I am sorry for Ireland to have been knocked out in such a fashion. Could they have won the game, I don't know. Could they have won the World Cup, again I don't know but I think I know what an Irishman would say. [;-)]

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[quote user="Quillan"]

 This to my mind is more to do with money than anything else.

[/quote]

Well it aint about sport, or even fair play which we learn as youngsters through sport.

I really dont get what all the fuss is about, I see on the French news that areas of Britain have suffered the worst flooding in a thousand years (I didnt know records went back that far), bridges swept away, a policeman killed and more heavy rain on the way and no mention of it at all on this forum.

But when a playboy millionaire touches a ball........................

I assume that he has French nationality but does he even play for a French team?

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[quote user="Chancer"][quote user="Quillan"]

 This to my mind is more to do with money than anything else.

[/quote]

Well it aint about sport, or even fair play which we learn as youngsters through sport.

I really dont get what all the fuss is about, I see on the French news that areas of Britain have suffered the worst flooding in a thousand years (I didnt know records went back that far), bridges swept away, a policeman killed and more heavy rain on the way and no mention of it at all on this forum.

But when a playboy millionaire touches a ball........................

I assume that he has French nationality but does he even play for a French team?

[/quote]

It's a French forum [;-)]

And I don't think whether or not Henry plays for a French team has anything to do with it to be honest. He certainly used to at one point, but moved on to superior leagues as his career progressed.

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We arrived back in France last night. On my visit to the market this morning several locals (all French) demanded to know if I'd watched 'the match'. Assuming, rightly, what they were talking about, I said no. They were all vehement about it being terrible and bad for France's reputation - and hoped that they would have won anyway. It seemed that they all wanted to get their apologies in before anything was said about it. And I've never discussed football with any of them before!
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[quote user="Quillan"]

I have been following this in the French papers and in particular La Figaro. The French run true to form in that nobody wants to take responsibility or make a decision, they wait for somebody else to do it. By this I mean that since the match many have said its a disgrace for France, the government should get involved (why?) etc, etc. They all wait for Fifa to make a decision and then the mood changes. First they say it was allowed because the ref allowed the foul by Shay Given on Nicolas Anelka (didn't watch the game so I don't know if this is true). Then they go further to comment on games where other countries have been knocked out due to bad referees decisions (or lack of them). Some go on and pick on fouls Ireland have committed in the past that allowed them to win a game. It seems strange that now Fifa have made their decision the French have changed their attitude.

I don't think we were ever going to get a replay for more obvious reasons. Fifa is the head of one of the largest and richest global industries in the world, football. Games are arranged so far in advance both nationally and internationally that you can't just call the players back which is why they have a penalty shootout to get a result. This to my mind is more to do with money than anything else. Personally it seems to me that if you want to sort it out (I am a rugby man and don't watch football) the obvious decision is to cancel the goal then do what would happen next as it was at the end of extra time, have a penalty shootout. This would be quick, can be done any time anywhere.

Anyway judging by the amount of comments about which teams have won by 'cheating' (there words not mine) I think there should be three major changes to international football. The first (and I know you will see this coming) is video refs. This works well in rugby, we are all used to it by now and would stop people digging up the past about who cheated in which game etc. Don't forget that ref on the pitch still has the final decision regardless of what video ref says. The second, just like rugby have a 10M rule for dissent towards the ref. The ref only talks to the captains and if other players ignore him telling them to go away he simply moves the free kick 10M forward and keeps doing so till, in the case of football, he gets to the penalty box. Thirdly I think that with the aid of the video ref those caught taking a dive should get an immediate red card.

Did Henry deliberately handball, well for me the first touch was an accident the second a definite redirection of the ball and whilst it was not him that scored the player who did would not have done so if Henry had not deflected the ball deliberately. I can understand the temptation for Henry to do what he did, it was a gift and will probably never happen to him again. What he forgot about was the TV cameras else he would probably have gotten away with it. His shame is that he has only half come clean by, to my mind, only admitting the accidental first touch and not the deliberate second one. One thing we can do in rugby is penalise a player after the match if a complaint has been made like a match ban for one or more matches. Not knowing football rules I don't know if you can do this.

So I am sorry for Ireland to have been knocked out in such a fashion. Could they have won the game, I don't know. Could they have won the World Cup, again I don't know but I think I know what an Irishman would say. [;-)][/quote]

Aye - its all a pretty sad affair and it shows football in a very poor light. Worse still is it shows FiFa in an even poorer light. Their aim is clearly monetary and given the uproar both here in France and world wide to this fiasco, their actions, or rather lack of, has clearly shown them for what they are. When the player himself does the decent thing you'd think that the governing body would follow suit. Obviously the FFF wont rock the boat as they have too much to lose.

Would Ireland win a replay? Who knows? Would they win the world cup? Not in a month of Sundays. I feel sorry for Henry. He is a great player who acted instinctively and did what many other players would have done. Not that this is right but we can all understand how and why. What is wrong is the system that doesnt offer any instant recourse to a grossly wrong decision. It was a wrong decision and if the ref didnt see it, he has 3 other match officials who should have seen it and if this fails then there should be the equivalent of rugby's TMO.

Anyway, its done and wont be undone so we've just got to move on. Sure its hard on those Irish players who wont be around for the next world cup but there is nothing that can be done now.

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[quote user="Chancer"][quote user="Quillan"]

 This to my mind is more to do with money than anything else.

[/quote]

Well it aint about sport, or even fair play which we learn as youngsters through sport.

[/quote]

Sadly I find your comment to be true.

As a schoolboy I represented the UK internationally (rowing) and can remember the talk given before we went about being 'ambassadors' for our country. I, like the rest or my team, was over the moon to be selected and of course extremely proud (I still have my cap and badge somewhere in a box). We didn't win but we came in 4th out of about 20 countries. Our parents had to pay for us to go.

When I have ever watched international football I don't see the proudness that I felt. What I see is a group of men who are told not to get hurt under any circumstances because they are worth so much to their club and thats what its about, the money. Likewise I often get the impression they don't really want to be there. They earn such huge amounts that I find it ludicrous and of course somebody has to pay and its the supporters and it ain't cheap. I know rugby league is going this way but on the whole rugby union has not been effected too much and I hope and pray it stays that way. Season ticket for USAP (champions of France) 140 Euros which gives you 22 games and excludes Heineken Cup games. Season ticket for ManU averages at about £750 with a shed load of restrictions.

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[quote user="Quillan"]

As a schoolboy I represented the UK internationally (rowing) and can remember the talk given before we went about being 'ambassadors' for our country. I, like the rest or my team, was over the moon to be selected and of course extremely proud (I still have my cap and badge somewhere in a box). We didn't win but we came in 4th out of about 20 countries. Our parents had to pay for us to go.[/quote]

Sadly, how times have changed in such a short time. IN any sport it was always viewed as the ultimate.

[quoteuser="Quillan"]When I have ever watched international football I don't see the proudness that I felt. What I see is a group of men who are told not to get hurt under any circumstances because they are worth so much to their club and thats what its about, the money. Likewise I often get the impression they don't really want to be there.[/quote]

How true is that - sadly.

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I do understand that from the clubs point of view.

Holland played in a pointless friendly last week, and theirs and Arsenal's striker Robin Van Persie got badly injured in that match and is potentially out for the season. Who has to pick up the bill? His country? No. His club? Yes. Ok, his wages are probably covered largely by insurance, but Arsenal have now lost an extremely integral player from their team for much of the season, all for what? A pointless friendly. Yeah, of course money is a big part, but the importance to the clubs far outweighs their importance to the country.

Arsenal were my favourites for the prem this season, they play by far the best football, and I think this may hinder their progress up the table.

Also in football, the highest level is no longer international level in my opinion. I would say the European Champions League is of a higher standard now than the World Cup.

As for them not really wanting to be there, on the whole, I don't

really by that. If they didn't want to play for their countries, they'd

simply state their retirement from international football. Easily done.

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