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Well done France


Bugsy
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Paris is a pretty unforgiving place to go to but for balance the Irish made so many (many) mistakes and Bugbear if you watch the tape once more you will agree. It would not happen again and there well be a backlash in a couple of weeks at of course the home of English rugby 'Twickers.'

One thing stood out from French teams of years ago discipline. But leopards never ever change their spots and if the French this year are on the back foot (difficult to envisage) save of course for Cardiff in a fortnight then it might be different.

Now to Cardiff and we the Welsh were lucky (very very) even to get a draw and that would indeed have been robbery with violence let alone a win. One only has to feel sorry for the Scots. We welcome them every other two years to the home of Welsh rugby and where of course the stadium is right in the middle of the city and it is sad that such a performance did not result in a win. Again it just proves (as between England and Wales) that you cannot play the game with 14 let alone 13 players.

In fairness to both sides and as better described by the outside half of Scotland (what a wonderful Scots accent) the referee seemed to make up the rules as he went along.

However in all of this nothing bar nothing is important as the well-being and health of the Scottish player now at the University Hospital of Wales Cardiff with his parents being with him. May God protect him and let us all wish him well and our thoughts are with him and his family
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You wouldn't believe what happened here yesterday when my neighbour knocked on the door to ask for help with his car and I missed the last five minutes of the Wales - Scotland game. [:(] I thought the result was sealed so It took a while for the final result to sink in as the score had changed beyond belief. Nothing on the news this morning about Evans or Paterson so lets hope that they are both OK.

As to France, I thought they were brilliant, tight and strong. Can they go all the way, well, I think so.

.

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Yes, best wishes for a full and speedy recovery to both players.

In the Wales v Scotland match the point I really don't understand is why (when the referee had somewhat suprising called for a kickoff after Wales equalised) didn't Scotland kick the dropout restart straight into touch. There was no way they were going to make another score (they were down to 13 men and in their own half). Surely they should have gone for a draw.

Back to the France v Ireland match. Always a joy to watch the French when they are "on song". A great performance.  How was Jerry Flannery allowed to stay on the pitch. I would have thought a Red card was a certainty, but he never even got the Yellow.  I noticed that even Keith Wood said he should have got a Red during the halftime discussion. 
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If Scotland had kicked straight into touch that wouldn't have stopped the game because the Referee would have awarded a scrum to Wales back on the centre kick off point. They should have kicked "long". Hey it's always easy after the event. Great game for the spectators though
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[quote user="NickP"]If Scotland had kicked straight into touch that wouldn't have stopped the game because the Referee would have awarded a scrum to Wales back on the centre kick off point. They should have kicked "long". Hey it's always easy after the event. Great game for the spectators though[/quote]

Nick, not sure if that is right or not. I've seen a few reports suggesting Scotland should have kicked into touch.

"Reduced to 13 men, and with seconds to play, the Scots had to restart

for a final time. Robinson tried to tell his players to kick the

restart into touch and settle for the draw. To his evident regret, the

message did not get through.

His captain, Chris Cusiter, said that

his team were so caught up in the heat of the moment they still felt

they could win. As it was, Wales recaptured possession, and Shane

Williams was able to score a decisive try."   
The Guardian.

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Well Derek I could  be proved wrong, but I offer in my defence the following from the IRB rules, maybe of course they are  they are open to interpretation, I would welcome advice on that point.

The referee has the power to end the match at any time, if the referee believes that play

should not continue because it would be dangerous.

(e) If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been

completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes

dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an

option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick

at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a

mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.

(f) If time expires after a try has been scored the referee allows time for the conversion kick to

be taken.

IRB rules, courtesy of IRB

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[quote user="NickP"]

Well Derek I could  be proved wrong, but I offer in my defence the following from the IRB rules, maybe of course they are  they are open to interpretation, I would welcome advice on that point.

[/quote]

Tbh Nick I don't know the definitive answer. My first reaction was... if play was going to continue after the penalty conversion... boot the kickoff out of the park.

When Scotland never did that I sort of presumed the interpretation that you posted.  Subsequent to that I read several articles that suggest that Scotland should have done that and settled for the draw. Having read the Andy Robinson's quote I took that as being fairly definitive and  thought that if he doesn't know how the laws of the game would be applied, who would?

But at the end of the day I'm still left wondering.

Having read your posting of the rules it would seem that it wouldn't have ruled time on the game... I'd like to understand that more.

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Derek,

My first reaction was the same as yours, but after what happened I thought lets have a look? and thats when I found the IRB rules. The rule on the ball going straight out is that the restart becomes   the choice of the receiving team, a scrum back or a line out. Now, as to end of play maybe it is interpretation. After all. players are supposed to stay on their feet, scrum halves must not feed the scrum, and it happens all the time and sometimes they get away with it sometimes they don't. An Irish forward got away with a terrible trip on a French player yesterday and stayed on the pitch, Welsh player against England gets sin binned, different referee different interpretation. Still it gives us something to talk about on a bitterly cold day while we are waiting for todays game. Got to go as I have to tell the wife to get some more wood in for the fire [Www]  cheers mate. 

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Nick.   Just watching the autopsy of the Italy v England match on the BBC HD Channel and they just discussed the Wales v Scotland match and that restart. They all agreed that all Scotland had to do was to drop out on the full to touch. Apparently the match would have finished there as the result of the kick on the full would have been a scrum not a penalty.

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  • 2 weeks later...

[quote user="DerekJ"]Nick.   Just watching the autopsy of the Italy v England match on the BBC HD Channel and they just discussed the Wales v Scotland match and that restart. They all agreed that all Scotland had to do was to drop out on the full to touch. Apparently the match would have finished there as the result of the kick on the full would have been a scrum not a penalty. 
[/quote]

Your reckoning was dead right Derek as proved yesterday by the French. Kick straight out, game over!

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[quote user="NickP"]

[quote user="DerekJ"]Nick.   Just watching the autopsy of the Italy v England match on the BBC HD Channel and they just discussed the Wales v Scotland match and that restart. They all agreed that all Scotland had to do was to drop out on the full to touch. Apparently the match would have finished there as the result of the kick on the full would have been a scrum not a penalty. 

[/quote]

Your reckoning was dead right Derek as proved yesterday by the French. Kick straight out, game over!

[/quote]

Hi Nick.  Yes, I was waiting to see what they would do on that final kickoff.  The Scots amazed me. They are professionals and should know the rules backwards.

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This season is simply as ever about points on the board and France would seem now to walk the Grand Slam. However on the last count us Welsh have given away and indeed Friday some 12 points so you can never win on that basis. Then the English game some seven points without the points when quite rightly our second row was sent off for the trip.

Could have been so different

rdgs
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General game plan for winning teams: Defend; don't give away silly penalties; seize on the other team's mistakes. May not produce the most attactive rugby but gets results.

I thought Gatland's assessment was right. There was in fact little to choose between France and Wales in the first half, but Wales paid with 20 points for mistakes, the ball falling just right for France. On another day, they would have gone into the second half honours even which would have produced a very different result.

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Dear Sweet 17 please believe me its points on the board that count and indeed England and France on the day were the better sides. Indeed there is an opposite argument that the Scots were as well but then points on the board.

I played cricket years back and on a league basis (not in Wales) and when you were out and sometimes disputed the decision of the umpires one was always directed to the score book and asked 'what does it say in the book? out'

However that still does not limit you having a viewpoint and wondering what if?

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