Jump to content

Mechanics of new inheritance laws


Daft Doctor
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well is it fair that someone is forced to be a parent? Okay.. I know that for the most part no one is forced..but for example, a friend of my sister was told by one of his girlfriend 's that she was on the pill, she wasn't and he was stitched up for child support for 16 years. Technically if he lived in France he wouldn't be able to disinherit the child he never wanted and apart from shelling out money for, has had no involvement with whatsoever. On the whole many of these complications arise because people are reluctant to make a will and sort things out when they are alive. I still don't see why an adult child should have the right to be supported by their family. What if they chose to spend all their inheritance fuelling their substance abuse problem? I speak as someone who did inherit money from my mother and I would have given up every penny to have had her with me for longer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="idun"]

We too, are children Lindal. A very good friend of mine found themselves in a terrible situation. And this because UK law does not cover children. Their mother, a widow, remarried. Their mother owned their own home, and  simply dropped down dead within weeks of the wedding. All went to the new spouse, who owned nothing prior to this marriage. Who duly dropped down dead within a very short space of time. No wills so the step family got the lot. My friend found family things, thing that were actually precious to them in  their local town, from antique shops to junk shops. The lot had gone, including family photos, sometimes it isn't just the money. And I believe that even if a will has been made, it needs re-doing if there is a new marriage and in this case the newly widowed husband would have had to make yet another will, maybe he would have, but these things do get left and I doubt that he expected to pop his clogs so quickly after his new bride.

[/quote]

All very interesting and really quite sad. It does show the benefit of the French system when there is no will. However, since this topic is about how to invoke the use of a non-French will in France, it actually has limited relevance.

[quote user="idun"]

I know someone really well who is married to someone I do not like at all, and I don't think that they do either, they both have kids by previous marriages and have made wills. I know darned well that as soon as their spouse is gone, that they will change their will and leave the rest to their own kids, because they can in the UK.

[/quote]

That depends very much on how the wills have been drawn up. It is possible to protect the children of one parent on their death while at the same time allowing full use of assets to the surviving spouse. The only thing the surviving spouse can then do to prevent the step children from inheriting is to liquidate everything and spend the lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="idun"]

So I have a question for you, is it right that 'some' parents will now be able to disinherit their children and yet the children, will not be able to wash their hands of said parents and say that they do not wish to care for their parents in their old age? The french will still expect that of the children, even if they have been disinherited........ so is that right? 

[/quote]

Let me pose your question the other way around Idun. Do you think it is likely that a parent that has been cared for by their children, would then disinherit them?

It can always happen of course, but most people who make wills are invested with some common sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Firstly, I echo what parnips has said in his last post, no need to add to that really. idun, in the words of Norman H, if you don't like the UK inheritance laws, move back to France. Yes, that is a ridiculous notion, isn't it! In fact, I really don't understand you at all. Your first contribution to this post in response to Norman's 'judgemental' comments was: ".......... and that is why I wanted to leave France when we retired", implying that you too disliked the French inheritance rules. Now you are saying that the French have got it right and that it is the UK who has got it wrong, make your bl**dy mind up! Maybe you should be more consistent in your posts, as to me (not for the first time) it just looks like you are being confrontational for effect.

Regarding the UK situation, having had experience of this in the past, I would argue that no matter how complex your personal situation, with proper expert legal help (which of course costs money), anyone drawing up a UK will can within reason act to protect those they wish and can exclude or disinherit those that they do not. They key is, always expect you might die unexpectedly and always have a current will in place. My thread was not about the rules of intestancy in France or the UK, it is about rules around the enforcement of wills. idun's friend didn't have a will drawn up in preparation for her remarriage, end of story.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="idun"]Parsnips, it is a discussion board, and we all have views. You obviously don't think along the same lines as I do about this.

So I have a question for you, is it right that 'some' parents will now be able to disinherit their children and yet the children, will not be able to wash their hands of said parents and say that they do not wish to care for their parents in their old age? The french will still expect that of the children, even if they have been disinherited........ so is that right?  Do you believe the very 'bright' folks at the EU discussed that too?

You know those highly paid folks who gave us the wine lake, and butter mountains and straight bananas and the worst making fisherman throwing perfectly good fish that are not the right ones back into the sea......those people, who are good at taking absolutely everything into account and being wise?

[/quote]

Hi,

      I have not expressed any view about whether things are "right" or "wrong"  - the heading of this thread is " Mechanics of new inheritance laws" .

That is what I have tried to address.   Any law affects individuals in various ways , sometimes" good", sometimes "bad".  

      I also never called the "folks at the EU" bright.   My views on the freeloading , overpaid , complacent parasites of Brussels are a matter for another thread , possibly entitled "Kick the Bureaucrats".   However satisfying (and futile) it is to decry these people , we have to deal with the legal framework they are creating for us.  In a thread entitled "Mechanics......", I suggest we confine debate to the mechanics of the laws;  if people wish to bemoan the moral and emotional  effects which might be caused by some hypothetical parents' use of the laws of succession  , I suggest they start another thread with a suitable title . 

     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I doubt I shall be moving back to France, but I could throw that back and say if you are so unhappy about french inheritance, because you and I do not know exactly how this will all play out, would that make you move back to the UK, where you obviously think it so good.

As this board always seems to have so many people who are great francophiles, or give that impression, I don't get why hardly anyone else gets that this is part of a whole package concerning 'la famille', it is just the french way and protecting the blood line is very important. Tant pis, I get it, and maybe that helps with the good relationships I have with french friends,  understanding and having empathy for their culture.

andy, many many people don't make wills, even those with common sense, or appear to be logical decent people. They mean to........ when they get round to it. They think they will die if they do. They do and then the circumstances change and they don't do them again. OR they do not. I have discussed this with a solicitor recently. All of it, especially the pitfalls of modern living and wills in the UK.

ps Parsnips, threads do wander off topic, has this one? Seems that the EU and it is they that brought out this blinkered new rule, which IMO should be questioned as there is something off with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In this modern world when many marriages are not for life it seems to me that perhaps the inheritance laws of France, Scotland and many other European countries are perhaps out of date. It may be that for once English inheritance laws which give freedom to individuals to decide who they wish to inherit their belongings are actually more in tune with reality.

I for one would not want my wife to loose her property on my death if my daughter was really needed her share. I have always felt that inheriting from ones parents is not a right but a bonus  and in any case should not apply until both parent and step parent have passed on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally agree with Rabbie's post.

A couple of friends here have four children between them but all from previous marriages. The man has a one child whom he hasn't spoken to for 15 years because said child doesn't want anything to do with his father. Why should this child (aged 35) have any claim on the couple's jointly owned French home?

So this new EU legislation has come along at the right time for our friends as they are both getting on a bit and can now plan sensibly should the worst happen.

Now if only France had better inheritance tax rules then I'd be even happier.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I really don't understand is why this has become a "your not really French if you don't love everything French " discussion. There are plenty of French people who hate the French inheritance rules. Sarkozy was one of them. I don't think the younger French are any more or less family orientated than in the UK, especially in the cities. Second and third marriages are just as common as anywhere else and families fall out and don't speak. This is one reason why there are so many empty old houses that can't be sold, as the family wait for the errant son or daughter to be traced and agree to the sale. I think it will only be a matter of time before the law is changed in France as well but that doesn't help daft doctor at this moment

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a couple who don't have any children or parents I hope that our UK will stands as everything on the death of the last one of us goes to some charities that are very close to our hearts one in particular RNLI who do a fabulous job and although fortunately we have never needed to be rescued when we used to sail around Portsmouth harbour, we saw many stupidities by those who shouldn't be on the water let alone with children and who had to be brought back to shore. The RNLI crew are volunteers and do a fabulous job. We have lived most of our life in the UK and therefore want to support UK charities and of course they will get the monies tax free (yes, we have set up covenants etc).

Chris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My father decided he no longer wanted to be responsable for me when I was 15 after the death of my mother, I just got on with things and made my own life including choosing to provide for him during his retirement, arguably at 15 I should have been the responsability of and Under the care of my remaining parent but at the time he was not up to it, I am talking upbringing not money.

My two sisters who were around 10 years older than me, were married and had children of their own were Queuing up for money when my mother died, the same story when my father died 10 years ago and there were huge rows when they realised that quite rightly he had left his house and money to his widow, my stepmother who had cared for him for 25 years, the same thing happened when my gradfather died in the 80's, he had in fact gifted us all a sum of money a year or so before yet I was the only one to write back and thank him and put it to good use, towards the deposit on my first flat.

We came into this world with nothing and  thankfully most of us make our own way in life, there are others who want to Hitch a ride and some who may recieve unexpected inheritances that may not actually do them any good. Would society be a better or worse place if inheritance was not allowed whatsover? If when we died our property and assets reverted to the state? A good proportion of it does anyway.

Clearly not as simple as that, where there are surviving partners, children, perhaps businesses employing people for générations but it would make the economy boom, people spending in retirement not wanting the state to benefit, houses would regularly come on the market at reasonable prices not an artificial bubble value.

I guess what I am asking is, dispassionately, what is the advantage to society of inheritance?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...