friend of stouby Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 We complete on our new French home in a week or so and are still at the stage of dreaming before the reality hits. Our first major outdoor project is to dig a pond, about 15 x 10m x 1m max deep. The soil type is unknown at the moment but have seen some mole hills in the field and it looks like they are pushing up seed compost!Also there is some form of limestone? rock not too far under the surface in at least one position as we have a large dip in the ground which one side has a rock face about 3 meters high. Whether this is a single piece of rock or not isn't known.Nearly there....Assuming that there is no clay at about 60 - 100cm down, what is the best material for making a pond relatively watertight but not using a butyl liner? Importing clay??I will post this in 'renovations' also as not too sure where this question belongs.Thanks in advance for any tips, as in this we are not sure where to begin.Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Sorry, why not use butyl?You could always get a pre formed pond liner, hard plastic with all the ledges etc for the plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 And of course you will need some ***** navvies to puddle the bottom. [B]Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friend of stouby Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 well...2 reasons for not wanting butyl.We had a smaller pond at our last home in the UK which was clay lined, as it was in Essex that comes for free!Our intention was to create a natural pond where plants and other such things would grow into the bottom, also the water level would alter a little due to seasons etc. The result for us was wonderful in particular what grew around the edge of the pond.The second reason is, my brother bought the house from us and decided he wanted to see the fish he was going to introduce and fitted (properly) a butyl liner. He is afraid to walk in it (to clean leaves out etc) for fear of piercing the liner, and the pond now has crystal clear water which in my view it now looks sterile...but it is possible to see the fish that the Herons haven't yet taken.So, I guess it's down to preference really and don't feel that we can achieve what we want with any form of man-made material......now I do have some Irish relatives though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 No reason why you cannot backfill a butyl liner with some soil (not stones though) and then walk on it - if it is properly installed (ie sand sub base).If you do truely have limestone bedrock then you could be in for all sorts of problems with clay should the water find even a small path through your "puddled" barrier.Whereabouts are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 We dug a pond last year, the guy who did it was keen to make a beach area or bog garden around the edges which would have hidden the liner. As it happened it didn't fit our scheme. We have gravel on the shelves (the plants grow into it) and base, paddle stones for wildlife ect and we are happy with it, puddling clay is great IF the soil is right, but if not a search on the internet at pond schemes may help with ideas etc.Happy digging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friend of stouby Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 andyh4...we will be in the Bourbonais Bocage, about 25k SSW of Moulins, 03160 code postalThanks to every one for comments so far, we do need some thought provoking ideas and are getting them too. Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Jamie, are there any / many farm ponds or shallow lakes in fairly close proximity?Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friend of stouby Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 Hello Chris, we are on a gentle hillside sloping back and side ways away from us. On the far side of the 2nd field behind us (about 200m away) we have seen on a large scale map that there is a small stream which ends up at a very large lake 2 km away. In the field behind us the same map shows what may be a large pond, but although having seen a clump of some form of wild willow and that the ground is damp (seen from a distance) haven't seen any pond. To the side on our last visit in early February the field had a small pond formed, but it did look as though it would dry quickly. Do to the nature of the bocage with hedges, it isn't always possible to see what is around a farm or in a field, but having spent a bit of time in the Bresse, north of Lyon, there it was always obvious that almost every small holding had a good sized pond, but I don't get that feeleing for where we will live.I remembered today that in the neighbouring village, about 1.5km away, there is a small holding with a good sized 'duck pond' ....for their ducks and geese! This has been built into the hilside as it is a raised bank on one side so must have been man made, when we move in I'll go and say hello and ask what they did to create it, as on the handful of times I've driven by it was always full of water.Thanks for your interest, hope the annswer wasn't too long.Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 The point is that most older houses in the majority of France, whether in hamlets or as farms had a pond for animals and they where nearly all man made, the same applies for largish ponds in fields and from what I know that was the situation in the Allier, lots of pasture and grazing animals. Most of these ponds have disappeared, either by being filled in or growing over from lack of management, which may be the case with what you have seen nearby, it is also normal for this type of pond to become very low or even dry up in summer, as they are not fish ponds this is perfectly OK as they regenerate.I would start by asking a few questions locally, if it is the case someone will soon say "Oh yes, there used to be a pond here when I was young" or something similar and can often point out where it was, which gives you a starting point. Needless to say, I like the idea of natural / clay!!Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Monier Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 HelloI don`t know if this helps but we have a 'natural' pond, close to the house, that will have to be drained and stone edged. The ragodins have got in. There are threads on the subject, so I won`t go on about them now but you should be aware that even a bank of about a foot is enough for them to start a burrow but if you edge the pond at this stage you could save yourself a lot of work later on.Glynis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friend of stouby Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 thanks Glynis....it may help if I knew what 'the ragodins' were. May I guess......moles or rabbits??searched the forum for ragodins and only came up with one thread, this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 If you are in the UK for any of the big garden shows, its worth paying a visit. Last year I saw some lovely water features (large ponds and smaller stuff) at Birmingham and Hampton Court, esp Hampton Court, not a liner in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 As far as I know 03 Allier is not a limestone region - but then someone may correct me. So in that case puddling with clay should be quite OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james419 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 We have created a kidney shaped pond 12 x 9metres on a sloping garden part of the hole was turned into a bank to get a level and most of the stones were re-cycled round the edge to hold the liner in place - even after 3 weeks of completing the job it looks pretty good - we put alot of larger rocks on part of the shelf to make an eco - ladder/step for the wildlife to be able to escape.The liner we got from Fawcetts Liners in UK it is commercial thickness and v strong.If you want more info please askJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friend of stouby Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 thanks James, what does a liner of that size weigh and how did you move it at each end?and Glynis...are they Coypu ? Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Here are a couple of pics of Hamprton Court - by the way in my limited experience liners can be heavy and its worth using sand or old carpet underneath.[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/russethouse/672005.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/russethouse/HC6705.jpg[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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