Why did he put lime on?

[Pads]

The  man who looks after my field has just ploughed and reseeded it as it was getting a bit weedy, He came this evening with the receipts and i have been charged for Lime being put on the field. Why would he do this was it to kill the weeds? Also I have been trying to keep the field chemical free, as i have a lot of wildlife in the hedgrows(headgehogs & badgers ect. He knows that I didnt want chemicals , as another reason is that my run off goes into 2 large ponds on my neighbours land full of fish . Will this lime be harmful to anything?

[chris pp]

Lime is used to reduce acidity, unless you have been heaping large quantities of manure, and I mean large, there shouldn't be any need for it on a field, the farmers round here do it and the PH is around 6.9, so I think it must be some kind of compulsive behaviour, anyway it won't affect the wildlife, but probably not required.

Chris

[Pads]

No Chris no manure has been put on recently(6years) before i had it it was a sheep field, They kept a lot of sheep there all year round so the grass was quite worn away, for the last 6 years i have just let it grow and has been cut for hay. But as it was very weedy we decided to have it reseeded this year. So If the lime hasnt killed the weeds I wonder what else he has used, as there is not a weed to be seen in the new growth. Many thanks for your reply.  

[andyh4]

Hi Pads

as well as reducing acidity as Chris rightly says, lime is also used to help break down heavy clay.  It causes the very fine silt particles to agglomerate into somewhat coarser ones - think of it like making concrete blocks on a micro scale.  This gives a much more workable tilth that is better draining and will not set solid in the heat of summer.  Used alternately (but never together) in conjuction with manure this is the best way to improve a soil.

Lime is one of the few chemicals that is totally accepted by the ecological groups and allows your land/produce still to be called bio- whatever.

 

Only downside is that potatoes are not so good in freshly limed land (best wait a season), and it is the death of ericacous plants (heathers. azeleas and rhodadendrons) which need an acid soil. 

[Pads]

Ah Andyh4 you may have hit the nail on the head there, It is very heavy clay soil and was solid as i found out when i tryed to spade in some trees last year. But it still dosnt answer what killed the weeds ? He said he wouldnt use weed killer. so would just ploughing and lime of done this ? Many Thanks  

[cooperlola]

I had a small (1.5 acre) paddock on heavy Wealden clay back in the UK which I grazed my ponies on.  I certainly used lime and a good deal of harrowing once they had been taken off (the ponies) and it did have a positive effect on the number of weeds around - I think it's just a question of the soil getting healthier as a result.  Ploughing or severe harrowing just before a frost seems to mean that the roots of the weeds get exposed to the extreme cold and die as a result.  It works - can't exactly explain why.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Ploughing weeds in and then reseeding - the idea is that the new grass

mixure will get away before the weeds regenerate and smoother them.

Aside from the effects already mentioned, lime also improves the

mobility in the soil of certain key nutrients - phosphorus and

potassium for example - making these more available to new growth.

[hoverfrog]

traditionally the application of lime redresses the ph of the soil if it is acid. This is necesssary if you want to grow brassiccas in acid soil.

As far as grass goes, I have no idea if it 'does' better in an acid/alkali soil - although the ph will undoubtedly have an effect on the broadleaved weeds.

Why not ask if the lime was applied as-is or as a compound?

[Llwyncelyn]

Just as an aside every year with the only treatment being manure from our neighbour I have our land tested for the PH value by some nice people in York.  Indeed they are on the site that the presenter of the BBC2 programme was injured on.

It costs about £20 and takes about a week and they then give me the background and in Normandie and at least here it is very acid and I need for veg purposes to bring the PH level down to around is it 6.5?

Then I treat with bio fertiizers nothing else to bring it to that level but over a period of years.  Lime is loved I think by the onion family and the brasicca family but I may be wrong.  But not pots as has been outlined you will get scab.

Our neighbour can and does grow everything on her veg plot and the secret just twelve years of manure from the farm.  The quality of the soil is superb and what she grows equally superb.  I gave her some squash and pumpkin plants this year she had to cut them to stop them leaving the garden and running over the main road.  I swear one of her pumpkins is over 60 kilos.   Its heavier than her

rdgs

 

[WJT]

Gosh, we were told to tell the farmer he is not to do anything to the fields because this would set some sort of precedent. I know that there have been many threads on this but we have left it at that. The farmer now does not fertilise or add anything to the fields other than cut for hay. We were also told by the agent that if the hay was being grown to feed cattle etc.. there is no need to fertilise and in fact better if not done. [8-)]

[chris pp]

If it's a hay meadow, I think I would agree with your agent, just cut and not add anything.

Chris

[andyh4]

Sorry LLwyncelyn

but I think you are getting very poor value for your 20 pounds.

1.  Lime increases pH (small p large H) and does not bring it down - although 6.5 is pretty ideal in most circumstances.  So if your lab told you that then they don't know their A from their E.

2.  You can buy a complete soil testing kit for around the same price and do it yourself - plus Potassium, Nitrate and Phosphorous if you so wish.  The kits are good for quite a number of tests.

3.  The kit gives full results in around 20 minutes, the pH test is virtually instantaneous - just as long as it takes the soil to settle through water after being shaken up.

 

 

[Llwyncelyn]

Dear AndyH4, I am sorry but I have re-read my posting and without wishing to be pedantic I do not think I suggested lime brings down the PH?  Ok might not have been totally specific but I did not repeat did not say that lime brings down acid soil.  However are you sure?

Whatever Andy one spends ones money as one thinks fit?

Forgive me but Heath Robinson as against Hogg Robinson is not for me.

[Deimos]

Pads, if it's not a rude question, how much were you charged for re-seeding the field (and for what sized field). One of mine is getting quite weedy (plus some of the brambles and wild roses are spreading into the middle of the field a bit) and I'm wondering what sort of bill I might face for ploughing, etc. through to re-seeding.

Many thanks

Ian

[andyh4]

[quote user="Llwyncelyn"]

 and in Normandie and at least here it is very acid and I need for veg purposes to bring the PH level down to around is it 6.5?

[/quote]

 

Not wanting to pick a fight but this was the bit I understood as lime decreasing pH - which it does not

[Pads]

[quote user="Deimos"]Pads, if it's not a rude question, how much were you charged for re-seeding the field (and for what sized field). One of mine is getting quite weedy (plus some of the brambles and wild roses are spreading into the middle of the field a bit) and I'm wondering what sort of bill I might face for ploughing, etc. through to re-seeding. Many thanks Ian[/quote]

Hi Deimos I have a ten acre field and I was charged 500pounds for the lime and seed , that was for 14ton of lime and 7 sacks of grass seed . He didnt charge me for the work as he cuts my grass for hay which he then buys off me, so he said he would do as long as I gaunteed that he could have it for the next 5 years . But now the quality of the hay will be better he has put up the price that he will pay me for it .So Im happy with the deal. Sorry if this isnt much help to you but if you intend to sell yours as hay you should be able to find a local farmer to give you the same kind of deal. 

[Llwyncelyn]

Hi but that by definition that does not mean Lime per se.  And which I do not use.  However whatever your views are your views and in this world we at least have the opportunity of saying what we think that is of course until Blair gets to grips with us and before he leaves office.

However I do not use lime in any format whatsoever and as you obviously know it is available in a number of formats.

In any event does it truly matter and I now wish I had not become involved for it is tiresome and I mean tiresome.

[Llwyncelyn]

Andy I will not wish to pick a fight over something so mundane and simple as lime.  However my career has been in the law and words can be utilised in a number of ways and essentially sometimes can confuse.

However you have read my comments in relation to the PH level and the need to bring it down to 6.5 as indicating that I would use lime to do so.  How you arrive at that understanding is truly beyond me.  Not guilty M'Lud.

Naturally I am now going to get onto our good friends in York and have the definitive decision.  No doubt and being an honourable man if lime does help in the treatment of acid soil and reducing the PH level then you will of course make a donation to the Cat refuge at Cherbourg.  If I am wrong I will of course do the honourable thing.

That I think is a compromise and one thing I have promised myself today is that I will and from immediate effect just read the forum but not comment.  That way I cannot get myself into all sorts of trouble and especially over lime.  Be it Dolomite or otherwise.

[Llwyncelyn]

AndyH4 the good guys at Phosyn at Pocklington say absolutely that you are correct lime does not reduce PH levels it according to them increases it.  Thus I am wrong and say so openly and very openly.

Accordingly the Cat refuge guys at Montebourg will benefit by this week end with a donation.

Again for the avoidance of all doubt you are right and I am very much wrong.

I think I should stick to what I know and hopefully after 40 years in the law business that is what I will stick to.  But of course Andy if you want a small argument on a point of law...........!  Only kidding.

Well done

[Cassis]

A lot of people think low pH means alkaline, high pH acid, whereas as it's the other way around.  Hence lime reduces acidity but raises pH.  I wouldn't beat myself up over it!

[andyh4]

A very magnanimous gesture, but as Cassis says it's not worth beating yourself up over it.

 

PS remind me not to have any legal arguements with you - the cats' home will benefit enormously at the expense of my wallet.

[Llwyncelyn]

Andy seriously I was wrong but as you say its not important but the good folk at Montebourg will benefit.

take care and best wishes