Jungle

[Just Katie]

Right, my garden to the front of my house is now looking really nice.  I have worked hard on this over the last two years and have now achieved the look I was seeking.  Hunkey Dory!!

[:D]

Now I need to start on the back garden.  It is quite a large area in UK standards of approx 250 m2.  The one half of it is covered in bramble, the remainder is covered in long feathery, meadowy sort of grass which is about 4ft tall.

I do not have any solid plans for this garden and, infact, I would consider hard surfacing the part where most of the brambles are rooted in decking, chippings or anything else which you may suggest.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

Oh and by the way, I have a mini digger and live in Wales

 

[tracteurtom]

Decking is so 90s and titmarsh / changing gardens inspired.  Forget it not unless it solves - ecomonically - a  level problem.  But you have a digger and only 250m2 - wow -  I think ponds and serious landscaping is a goer here.

Brambles are a real pain.  Weed kill first, leave for a couple of weeks and then brush cut the tops (they are even worse when dead and insist on attacking you whenever you go near them !!)  then burn the waste.  Do NOT let them set seed anymore.

Why do you  live in Wales - thats not very French ???????????

[Just Katie]

[quote user="pcwhizz"]Decking is so 90s and titmarsh / changing gardens inspired.  Forget it not unless it solves - ecomonically - a  level problem.  But you have a digger and only 250m2 - wow -  I think ponds and serious landscaping is a goer here.

Brambles are a real pain.  Weed kill first, leave for a couple of weeks and then brush cut the tops (they are even worse when dead and insist on attacking you whenever you go near them !!)  then burn the waste.  Do NOT let them set seed anymore.

Why do you  live in Wales - thats not very French ???????????
[/quote]

Thank you pcwhizz.  Yes I agree, I really dont like decking but if it is the only solution then I will go with it.  It is in my backyard so I really dont mind.  Ponds and landscaping, yes I could certainly plant that idea in hubbys head and let him think it was his idea!![6][:D].  Or even a fire pit!!!!

BRAMBLES:  What weed killer is the most effective?

                        What does brushtop mean??

                        When you say not to let them seed do you mean that I should not allow them to fruit???

The part of Wales where I live is very French!!  And, purely because of that, I am allowed on this forum.

[tracteurtom]

Weedkiller, Round up seems to be used alot around here, there are others, maybe speak with the sales person in your local suppliers and tell them what you need it for. I know that some weed killers have a anti germination chemical in them  and are used by the councils etc in communial parks and gardens.  So if your planning on plants in the cleared area then its best to stay away from these types; again, speak with the person selling you the stuff, if you dont like the answer, go elsewhere.  Good weed killer is expensive, so don't be shocked  at the price.  It may (probably will) take a couple of applications to kill the weeds, particularly with the likes of bramble.

Brushtop - umm Brush cut - is simply a blade on a strimmer, or more accurately a  Brush Cutter.  Nylon line is no good for brambles as it  just snags and  breaks, use a blade, or if not such a large area, simply use scatateurs (how do you spell that ???).

The fruit is next year's new plants  and spread - I think ? by birds etc, so just keep them under control, no flowers, no fruit, no seeds, no new plants, remember you're the chef  !!

I didnt know there was a French area of Wales, or a Wales in France ??  Please explain, and no sheep and wellies jokes !

[Russethouse]

 OK - Decking apart from it being a bit Alan Titmarsh it is a serious hazard when wet, very slippy. I wouldn't do it.

The best thing we ever did was put a pond in our garden and the worst thing was not make it big enough. Ours is a wildlife only pond - no fish. We have frogs and newts, damsel flies, dragon flies,snails, water boatmen etc - all just arrived, birds love the pond. If possible make a 'beach' area so that you can grow marginal plants too

We covered most of our garden (except the lawn)with a weed proof membrane and graveled on top, I plant through this and the paths are just the bits that are not planted but it has the advantage that I can walk round it on a wet day and not get muddy

[Chris Head]

Hey there JK,

You gotta start from the bottom and work up from there, first thing is the brambles...find a local tree surgeon or someone who has a powerful brushcutter and get them to mash the brambles down to ground level...rake it all up and burn off. Wait until there is strong new growth then zap it with some chemicals... SBK brushkiller is effective (apologies to the econerds) , it's a systemic chemical and has 24d amongst other nasties that work well but take time to be effective.

Spend a load of time looking at the garden, choose a starting point and build from there. Don't try and plan the whole thing in advance 'cos  stuff changes...it'll take on it's own character.

I know you have the art to make something really great! Go with the flow.

edit...what's wrong with decking and sheepshagging jokes?

[Gemini_man]

i havent seen SBK on sale here but anything marked "debroussailant" will do the job - they're specifically for woody stemmed plants like brambles.

[Just Katie]

Thank you all for your replies.  Bad news.  Got a close look right up the end of the garden and found tumps of bindweed[:'(].  Any suggestions?

[Russethouse]

Use a systemic and prepare for battle ![6]

[Just Katie]

But the bind weed and the brambles are together.  Do I brushcut it all and treat is as suggested or do I do something else?

[Unknown]

Hello JK

I have many areas which sound just like yours, I am getting rid of them slowly by spending lots of long hot days, cutting and strimming, then using the type of weed killer RH mentions.  Its taken me two years to get 11000 m2 under control and its bloomin hard work.

Just do a bit at a time, mentally sectioning off areas and you will soon get there.

Good luck

[Just Katie]

Thank you Dotty.  I did not want to hear that though.  I think I am looking for a miracle  solution that will kill it all in a fortnight.

BTW havent seen you around for a while.  Hope you are well. 

Have you got bindweed mixed with bramble too?

[Just Katie]

Wait a minute [I][:D].....  If I  take the top of with my digger, then got some topsoil, could I not zap new shoots with weedkiller when they start to pop through this?

[Nicos]

I like your method of attack!!!

Not a cheap way, but yes- you could even choose the topsoil to suit your needs.

Glyphosate is the best weedkiller we have come across which is the most nature- friendly, but there are 2 types to be aware of....

general garden centres in the UK are only allowed to sell a certain concentration, but farm suppliers have some which is much more concentrated and will cetainly do the trick- I suggest you hunt out your local farm supplies merchant ( will be cheaper than B&Q too!!!)[:)]

[Chris Head]

So if the word decking was changed to 'exterior flooring' would that make it sound less 90's Titchmarsh? And what if it were a solid Oak deck?  

RH, is your pond stillwater or flowing? Any problems with greening up? Have you effectively hid the liner?

JK, there aren't any magic quick fixes...luckily the area is relatively small...Nicos' idea is a good one, there'll be plenty of agricultural suppliers in your neck of the woods, they'll advise on chemicals.

[Russethouse]

Pond is still and has been quite clear until the last week, now its just beginning to look murky in the middle and is due for a treatment. I think the main problem is not enough 'cover' and our pygmy water lilies really haven't thrived enough to do the job.  We have a wonderful plant we call 'water soldier' which is great for keeping the water clean, most of the time.

You can still see our liner but thats because its our first pond, it's live and learn. ( its not too bad as we use plants to disguise it) My sister had quite a shallow sloping 'beach' area and used cobbles, which looked good. We did consider a pump with just a gentle 'bubble' to keep the water air-rated but haven't gone down that path yet. I might try bigger water lilies first !

JK - I think what you are going to put on top will dictate how you treat the weeds to some extent. The weed proof membrane is worthwhile ( I did a deal for whole rolls rather than buying by the metre ) but you really need to over lap the joins well. The brambles will get through but are manageable. If you are digging out remember that many bits of chopped up weed will just root, so be careful ! Also if you are keeping anything, mind the roots. We lost a mature hawthorn tree because the guy who rotovated chopped through a root, (unknown to us) come the gales and the tree just fell down!

 

[Just Katie]

OK.  I have taken what Nicos has said on board.  But if I use Gays suggestion of membrane, how deep would my topsoil need to be to accommodate plants?

[Russethouse]

 I suppose it depends what you want to plant to some degree, if you are on heavy soil then try to loosen the soil in the bottom of each hole otherwise it can 'crust' in dry weather.

These are before and up to date pics of our garden, (much smaller than yours) not sure I would do the same again, but it suits us.......there is no 'end' or 'after' in my garden it sort of just continuously evolves !!!

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/russethouse/07.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/russethouse/07-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/russethouse/Acer16-3.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/russethouse/Acer16-1.jpg[/IMG]

Still haven't weeded around the birch but will do very soon !

[Just Katie]

It is lovely Gay.  A real haven!! 

All in all my land is about 1/3 acre which is very difficult to maintain.  The front is lawned with cottage style beds.  Lots of shrubs with lupins and foxgloves popping through at the moment and, apart from the lawn it is very low maintenance as the shrubs are now merging and weeding is minimal.  But.... the lawn gets me down.  A few of us neighbours are going in shares for a ride on mower.  However, I will not be able to access the rear garden with this and, I really think the way you have your beds with chippings etc would really suit my needs.  I would also like some "external flooring" of some sort as my daughter would like a hot tub.  Perhaps this could be raised on an area which would minimise my lawn even further.

Isnt this exciting?

[Russethouse]

This link should take you to an 'album' of my last trip to Malvern. If I was you I would think seriously about going to the Autumn show (if you are feeling like spending a night there I recommend The Cottage in the Wood Hotel, (http://www.cottageinthewood.co.uk/) but book early, its popular !

http://www.kodakgallery.co.uk/Slideshow.jsp?mode=fromshare&Uc=c39c0iil.9kdbhppx&Uy=-98s60m&Ux=1&localeid=en_GB

 

 

You just might see something to inspire you - I rather liked the sleepers used vertically at different levels....

 

(My husband likes Bonsai - hence the other pics - they won Gold at Chelsea !)

 

[Loiseau]

To return to the "prickly" question - as I am undisputed queen of brambles in the Vendee....  [:)]

They spread by "leapfrogging" - i.e. sending out long shoots that bend down till they brush the ground and then take root. So they advance by leaps and bounds. When newly rooted like this, they are quite easy to pull out if the ground is soft.

I have always tackled vast swathes of brambles by secateurs.  It's much quicker than weedkiller!  It is essential to wear tough clothing though.  Waxed thornproof  jacket, jeans, wellies, good leather gardening gloves.  Maybe even a hat (it's painful when a particularly vicious bramble gets you in the head!).  So you may not want to tackle this job in hot weather.

 If you snip a stem as low down as you can reach, and then haul that stem away from the mass, you often find a rewardingly large amount of side shoots will follow it. Go on and on doing this and you will be surprised how quickly you clear the area.  (Cut the remaining stems down to ground-level once they are accessible.)  It would them be easy to treat tender new shoots as they emerge. I recommend concentrating your gaze on a manageable-sized patch rather than looking at the depressing size of the whole!   I drag the cuttings to a suitable place for a bonfire (but in France cannot actually set fire to it till about November).  Once you get a bonfire going, they stems burn like crazy.  I snip them up a bit, as I use an incinerator; it consumes a mountain of them really quickly if I stand over it and keep feeding it.

Good luck with the task!

Angela

[Just Katie]

Cheers for that Angela.  I really like the sound of it.  It seems quite theraputic.  I will certainly give it a go.  Then I will use the digger on the bindweed.  Then I will get my digger out.  Then I will put a membrane down.  Then I will put topsoil on top.  Then I will zap the shoots as they pop out.  

Does that make sense.

By the way, where is Tresco Titmarsh on this one?

[Framboise]

So you have a digger huh?   My husband has bought "me" one - allegedly - although it has yet to be transferred out to our house AND I have not done His Driving Test on it yet which I guess means that he will be driving it about like Lewis Hamilton in the interim.   We have a Kubota thingy.  Its a sort of digger / mini-dozer with a lawn attachment which means far too many handles, buttons & knobs for me to contend with, so maybe I will let him get on with it whilst I pretend to be a bimbo! 

As to the brambles and stuff, I am afraid you have a lot of hands-on digging to get rid of them, likewise the bindweed as I found the wretched stuff clogging up my one solitary flower bed when I visited the house last week and that took a whole day to rip out.  I expect more of the same when I next visit.

One thing to bear in mind with weeds, especially when you inherit an expanse of neglected or uncultivated land or garden: -

                                    "One years seeds equals seven years weeds"

due of course to certain weeds being annual, some biannual and others perennial.   Unfortunately that means if you start now, by 2014 you might have won the battle for supremacy in the flower beds.   Doesn't bear thinking about does it?

[Dave&Olive]

  " Quote "

              

The part of Wales where I live is very French!!  And, purely because of that, I am allowed on this forum.

                    are you sure you donot mean Polish ???           S4C  now transmit with Polish sub titles !!!

                              Dave      Welsh with a mini digger but lives in France [:)]

[tracteurtom]

JK, Bindweed needs to be dug out by hand.  If you use your digger then all you will do is spread it around and what was maybe 100 roots will be 1000 roots next  year !  Cut the tops off the bind weed, and then trace them back to the roots,  its surprising  just how much top one root can feed.  When you have the root, just fork it up, but be very careful to get ALL the root.  Just keep at it, as a previous poster said, and you will win in the end.  Easy said, I know, but a lot of hard work. 

BTW, Decking is decking, call it want you want, make it out of what you want, but it is still decking and will be referred to by others as decking, is that OK ?  To me, it just smacks of suburbia UK, people trying to make something out out a tiny space.  Gardening on a large scale is relatively easy, getting it right in a small patch is very difficult.   I just worked out that if your patch is 250m2 and assuming a spade depth (say 250mm) of top soil you  have a gross total of over 60 m3 of top soil - thats alot of digging even for a mechanical digger, keep the top soil where it is and work around it.  Spend this year, sorting out  the weeds and finalising the plans.  Its not a race and time spent thinking about the area, where you want to sit, sunny spots, shady areas, ugly bits etc is time well spent.