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Titre de sejour (Yes, again)


CeeJay
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[quote user="idun"]
For most of our time in France we were not in the situation of other than 'having' to have proper paperwork. So we did.

Debra, especially with the health care problems you did exactly the right thing. And the details you have given are great!

I would always have one, but I learned a long time ago in France that being 'in' their system is very comforting for fonctionnaires.

For those who don't think they should get a CdS and have been in France

for quite a  while and are what appears to me to be rather complacent or

should that be compliant, with what french fonctionnaires are telling

you, well don't bother.

What I don't 'get' about some of the questions from some of you who have been in France for quite some time, is how you haven't assimilated 'rale'ing'.  Especially when you have the written proof on here and are being told nonsense by your prefecture. The french do it all the time, it is the only way to deal with the authorities.

ps, It has been said on here over many many years, but keep all your paper work. Amazing how it comes in when needed.

[/quote]

I agree Idun but when you have a house fire and lose absolutely everything, as we did, no one really can foresee these circumstances.

We obtained copies of passports, driving licences, birth certificates, marriage certificates, carte vitales but not in a million years did we ever think we would need to replace divorce documents.

My advice would be to keep all important documents in a safe place where you can grab easily should the need ever arise.

Hopefully you will never need to ?

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The most sensible post so far, Mogs, it is something that occurred to me, recently ... I really should have these documents (which of course I have just had out for our CdS application) in a safer and grabbable place.  But where??

Another alternative is to scan them and keep them electronically onto a stick, and keep it, in, say a handbag, which surely you would grab if the house was on fire?

We suffered a bad flood last year, fortunately, those docs were not affected, but some of the necessary files were.  It was not a nice time, and we did loose quite a few things and papers, but it was not, thankfully, quite so destructive as fire, which I have always thought would be much worse!

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Thanks Judith for your earlier post it helps knowing that one is not alone in these matters. I think I should really post this on a separate thread but in reply to you, re keeping all docs on a stick that is exactly what I am doing. Two years ago my pc was hacked and I lost everything including photos which sent me into tears in the store when I was told they were gone for good. (I had the firevault on for security - not any more). So from that experience I went out and purchased 4 USB keys two with 32 storage for photos and the other two 16 for documents which I’ve been copying onto since acquiring my new pc - I’m at some point going to scan old photos over as well although I can use icloud storage for that. However, I didn’t think to dig out all the old french docs for the previous years and copy them over which I am doing now whilst gathering the docs for the TdS job. So I would say do it or as in my case lose it! The keys are so small now and I store mine in an old fireproof cash box in a very accessible place if needed to get at it quickly! Being risk averse 4 keys = 2 for back up just in case!!
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[quote user="BritinBretagne"]Wherever you keep the copies you have to ensure that they are safe. When I applied to exchange my driving licence I took photos of all the pages in the dossier with my iPad. Shortly after that I drowned my iPad and all those photos are no more.[/quote]

How did you drown your ipad ? LOL.

Did you give it a bath or something ?

All the photos should have been backed up on the cloud.
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Mrs KG, back up, and more back up, as the drowned ipad above should have been.  I have several large back up disks, which reminds me, time to do it again, now I can think again.  Yes, copying all those docs I just scanned in, plus photos etc is so sensible ... matters not how you do it, just do. Courage ... I thought I'd never finish either, but hope it is all but playing the waiting game now.

Next job - driving licence. ... and no, I do NOT want to hear from any clever clogs on here who said I should have done it when I arrived ... still legal, and still got time ... but hey, this French paperasse is something chronic, n'est-ce pas?

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I have used this backup program since around 2000 [url]www.handybackup.net[/url] .Usual disclaimers. It has been excellent value for me, as I have used it a few times to transfer files to new computers or HDDs.

The Standard version is $39.

This is not from the same source as the program from the handybackup.com site; the two entities split some years ago, and may still have copyright issues.

EDIT: See [url]https://cloudstoragereviewed.com/handy-backup-review/[/url]

It is set to back up automatically every day. It is set to make incremental backups to a separate HDD in my computer, so it simply updates the previous backup, which usually only takes a few seconds, and runs in the background. It is also set not to delete any files from the backup, even if they have been deleted from the system in use, which guards against losing files accidentally deleted.

I also make additional back ups of photos and files to separate memory sticks occasionally.

Since I first purchased it I have been offered updates from time to time, free, or at a nominal cost. My last update, in August 2017, cost 12€.

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If you are. British there is no need to exchange your licence until it is about to expire. You may of course exchange it at any time. The regulations may vary for non EU residents. The backlog at the moment is a result of the system moving online and will hopefully speed up before long. This is hardly a French problem; when the DVLA closed their local Vehicle Licencing Offices and moved the process online they too experienced huge delays and teething problems.
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You have just reminded me that I used to have a grab bag with all our essential paperwork in, in France. IF anything happened I would grab that and at least one of my husband's musical instruments........ and the kids ofcourse[:-))]

IF I hadn't been there, and it had burnt down or flooded, then I would have been snookered.... and do you know, I had never thought of that at the time!

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Keep them on "the Cloud" e.g. Dropbox* (especially useful and free for what should be enough space to store the essentials) plus A.N.other such site ('belt & braces').

*I find this especially useful because it 'synchs' with all my devices.
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You would think so Judith you would grab your bag. Unfortunately our fire happened so quickly at the time all I could think of was trying to get my daughter out (She took her mobile phone), and our 2 dogs and 3 cats. The cats were sleeping peacefully on a bed so I had to run back into the house filling up with smoke to get them out. Sadly one cat died as he wouldn't let me save him.

Passports, birth certificates and important documents were the last thing on my mind. If I'd had time I would have grabbed my jewellery case which had irreplaceable pieces of jewellery. I just didn't think!
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Yes, Mogs, I suppose it depends where you are in the house and where the bag is in the house if something happens.  Panic takes over, so whatever we say, we can never know.

My MAC comes with its own backup system, onto an external disk in my case, I also back up changes every day to another disk.  I don't entirely trust the cloud!  I clear my photos off my phone regularly, they are stored on the MAC, which as I explained is backup up regularly.  The docs I just produced for the CdS are now backed up likewise.

All I now have to do is remember to collect the disks in an emergency!

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For anyone who may be applying at the Laval prefecture I have just had confirmed the rdv for myself and the OH for 1st October. In the time it took me to book a slot I hoped at 9am and 9:30am someone snook in there and grabbed the 9:30 so we now have a 9am and 11am but at least we can pass some of the originals to each other inbetween time! Oh roll on winter or brexit! Mrs KG
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Eurotrash - you wrote - 'Because it seems odd that the British Embassy says that, when the French

government websites have been recently updated to stress that at

present UK citizens do not need a cds. Now, if France really wanted us

to apply for one, why would it have done that?'

Isn't there a very subtle, nuanced difference between what's on the British Embassy website and a French one.

My interpretation, and only mine, is look at the wording again; 

isn't the phrase - 'at present' UK citizens etc ....the words to consider -

ie no-one knows how Brexit is going to happen;  and if the conversations that May held with Merkel and Macron are true then there's a huge question mark about democracy in the UK, and the behaviour of the UK's PM (but that's for another thread guys !).

It's the 'at present'  - ie it's a get-out clause because, right now, this week, this month, this year - no any UK citizen does not - at present - need a CdS.  BUT - we might well do some time next year, in 2 years - or maybe never.

As an aside (I've not followed every page so apologies) - as an Irish citizen, with a UK married partner - anyone know if UK partner can acquire eu residence rights through Irish partner ?  

Oh what a tangled, messy web; could have been avoided if the megalomaniacs hadn't taken over - loved the idea of a Common Market....it's the future direction of the eu that really worries me.

Enjoy your night markets, and all the other wonderful Frenchie things - we've another few weeks of good weather still ahead of us.

Chessie

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Chessie: 'As an aside (I've not followed every page so apologies) - as an Irish citizen, with a UK married partner - anyone know if UK partner can acquire eu residence rights through Irish partner ? '

Yes. If the Irish Citizen is exercising treaty rights in France then their spouse can get a carte de sejour permanent UE/EEE/SUISSE as their family member, whether that spouse is an EU Citizen or a third country national. So if they get one now it will endure after brexit even if they suddenly decide to cancel all British people's EU cards (which I personally don't think they can do).
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"It's the 'at present' - ie it's a get-out clause because, right now, this week, this month, this year - no any UK citizen does not - at present - need a CdS. BUT - we might well do some time next year, in 2 years - or maybe never."

Yes that is my interpretation exactly, Chessie.
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My father has become very confused about all this. He thought that by getting a CdS it would also include EU travel rights and it doesn't.

He wrote a letter, got it professionally translated and sent it to the Ministry of Interior and actually got a reply which seems like a stock letter he thinks.

A CdS does not give you EU residence nor travel rights, only French residence. There are different requirements for different groups of nationalities gaining A CdS. There is one which is for EU citizens living in France who need or would like one. At the end of the day what you get is a standard type CdS as say a Moroccan or American wanting French residence.

If you want to be EU residence you need to apply for one of two things, French (or any other EU country) citizenship or an EU Blue Card. The latter is basically an EU work permit and gives you the full rights same as any EU citizen without having to gain citizenship of a EU country.

He has a permanent CdS which as pointed out by others has to be renewed every ten years like a passport. It has no function outside of France so to travel around the EU, like to visit me for instance after Brexit he will need his UK passport. If he goes to the UK the same would apply after Brexit.

It is a bit strange really because if he was younger he might decide to drive to me in which case there is no border control so really nobody would know unless he was stopped for any reason and then, well who knows. The only benefit it has is that you won't require a visitors or travel permit as the CdS proves he is resident inside the EU.

So the conclusion he and I have come to is that the benefit of getting a CdS now is purely financial in that's it's free. When the UK leaves the EU you will have to pay like every other non EU person wanting one. When you come to renew it after ten years, if your still alive, your have to pay.

That's how it stands at the moment, in the future who knows. I do know that in Germany they are going to make it a lot easier for UK citizens to gain German nationality and they have committed to that already but you will have to have lived and worked in Germany for five years.

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As a long term resident in an EU member state he would be free to travel to other member states for up to 90 days visa free even as a third country national. A cds isn't even official ID, never mind the equivalent of a passport, but it does prove his long term residence rights.

See here for movement within the EU allowed by third country nationals https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=LEGISSUM%3Al23034

and the directive https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32003L0109

Even as an EU Citizen, permanent residence is only in the member state you are resident in and doesn't transfer. You have the same movement rights to move on to another member state (with only a passport for up to 90 days) but you still have to comply with local conditions after that and start your residence rights from scratch in the new member state.
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I am rather surprised about any confusion about the cds. Brits in France always had to have a valid UK passport and to use it to travel. Always been like that, well since the early 80's.

Just because any of us imagine that something should be, will never make it so.

And this getting another nationality thing. Unless someone feels that they are assimilated enough to feel like say a german or francais, why would they?

Expediency?

Even now, I have still spent the majority of my adult life in France, and yet I shall never be french, and I know that I understand an awful lot of how the french view the world, I even embrace some of it, but I know I am not french and never will be and frankly could never have held my head up and said to french friends that I was now 'french'.

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Debra - It still does not give you the same rights as an EU citizen which is my fathers point. It's like being a half (or less) EU citizen in that restrictions apply.

Idun - Personally I don't care what "nationality" I am as long as I am European i.e. part of the EU. As much as some don't like it I love it. I'm European first and foremost whose country of birth is the UK. If the UK leaves the EU I shall take the nationality of any country that allows me to stay a European. The why and wherefores are a different subject for a different day but it is something I feel very strongly about.
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