Titre de sejour (Yes, again)

[Cathar Tours]

You still here.

Check the link given by Norman. Seems I was right yet again fool.

[ebaynut]

So you are right ? is that far right??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcWk640Rjq0

[nomoss]

[quote user="Cathar Tours"]But you don't need to show anything to go to either of those places or any other Schengen country if you drive or catch a train. It's all this anti terrorist stuff about flying that requires either a passport or national ID card (EU area only for the latter).[/quote]

You may or may not be asked to show proof of identity on entry, especially by road, as this is permitted under Schengen rules.

However, once you are in any Schengen country, as in any country, under some circumstances, such as a traffic offence, you may be asked for identification, as may any Schengen citizen (all of whom, unlike Brits, have ID cards).

I don't know about all the Schengen countries, but those I have visited require a Schengen country ID card or a valid passport as identification for non-residents.

"The Essential Features of The Schengen Area

Despite the extent of the freedom guaranteed by the Schengen Area, the

police enjoys the authority to carry out checks at internal borders and

in border areas, in specific circumstances, but this is not considered a

border check. The police can require information from people at

internal borders about the stay in Schenghen Zone and additional

associated questions"

See [url]https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-countries-list/[/url]

[NormanH]

" any Schengen citizen (all of whom, unlike Brits, have ID cards)." which is exactly my point in reply to the question about the need for a carte de séjour.

[Debra]

I was told by the prefecture that my carte de sejour was proof of my rights and not official ID.  My bank and La Poste accept it as ID.  I didn't realise that it could be accepted as ID for travel but I suppose that does make sense since even third country nationals are allowed to travel within the Schengen area without the need for a visa for up to 3 months if they have a long term resident card from an EU member state.

[alittlebitfrench]

Ummm....a CDS cannot be accepted for travel !!

It is just a worthless proof of identity that will become irrelevant very soon.

[Debra]

It's not often the service public site has it wrong?

Why would it become worthless?  Especially a permanent residence card - that right is unconditional.  Although I wouldn't have just taken the word from the British Embassy as they're always a bit behind in figuring things out, I'm happy to take the word of the Ministry of the Interior that the card isn't worthless after brexit and in fact is more valuable than waiting until after it to get one.

[alittlebitfrench]

Debra.....it is worthless because it is an 'EU' card !!

The card will be replaced with 'something'. The only benefit of getting one is getting you into the system.

I have had two in the past and never used either. Pointless things that don't fit in your wallet or your back pocket. They do nothing that your DL or passport does not do.

PS...Should you not be on moderating duties !!

[idun]

I have had carte de sejours, and titre de sejours and one cannot travel with them. The french can travel with their ID card, but not british nationals with a 'carte'.

[alittlebitfrench]

I thank you Idun.

Listen, if you have lived here 2 years and can back that up with tax bills etc...I would not worry. Just wait for what ever card they want.

If you have arrived before that then......I have no idea what you should do.

Those arriving this year......well you could be jumping through hoops. I have seen literally hundreds of removal vans this year heading SW (yawn) France. I fear for them !!! I don't think they will have much legal status.

I think these types are in trouble....but....would you move under theses circumstances ?? No.

[nomoss]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Debra.....it is worthless because it is an 'EU' card !!

The card will be replaced with 'something'. The only benefit of getting one is getting you into the system.

I have had two in the past and never used either. Pointless things that don't fit in your wallet or your back pocket. They do nothing that your DL or passport does not do.

PS...Should you not be on moderating duties !![/quote]

You occasionally make sense - when you comment on a subject you know something about.

Should you not be doing that?[:D]

[alittlebitfrench]

Go on Nomoss....tell me where I have not made sense...

[nomoss]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Go on Nomoss....tell me where I have not made sense...[/quote]

Just two examples. I have neither the time nor patience to list any more.

1) "The only benefit of getting one is getting you into the system"

That seems a worthwhile benefit to me. How many other, and what sort of  benefits do you expect?

2) "I have had two in the past and never used either"

Does that make sense? If you never used the first one, why on earth did you get another?

[alittlebitfrench]

Well regarding your second question.......they were actually once required in order to work here..Doooh !

Regarding your first question, it could be pointless because the French authorities probably will require you to apply for something completely different that requires a whole different set of paperwork.

Me, not bothered about a CDS. Will wait. Be there done that...waited in the queue.

So Nomoss, what do you actually do with your CDS ? Do you wave it around when you walk down the street ?

[nomoss]

Please make sure brain is engaged before operating mouth (or fingres)[:D]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Well regarding your second question.......they were actually once required in order to work here..Doooh ![/quote]

So, in spite of your saying you never used it, in fact, you did [:D]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"] Regarding your first question, it could be pointless because the French authorities probably will require you to apply for something completely different that requires a whole different set of paperwork.

Me, not bothered about a CDS. Will wait. Be there done that...waited in the queue.[/quote]

The bits of that which don't really make sense are the words "could be", "probably", and "different set of paperwork"

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]So Nomoss, what do you actually do with your CDS ? Do you wave it around when you walk down the street ?[/quote]

No. I carry it around in my wallet instead of getting my passport scrunched up and bent in my pocket. It has been accepted as ID in government offices and a few dozen hotels in France.

In Spain I carry my Spanish targeta de residencia, which is accepted as ID in gov't offices and hotels, etc.

Even though it has expired for the purpose of being a resident, it is still valid as ID because the number is valid forever, can be checked on the database, and never changes (unlike UK passports).

You come up with similar questions to those of our 50-odd-years-old kids, but they take notice of what is actually happening around them[:D]

I'm pleased to be able to help you.

[Cathar Tours]

I think the point is people are worried that they might be made to leave France which may or may not be correct, who knows and that's the point, nobody knows for sure.

The CDS my father got says resident permanent and the procedure was exactly the same as for any "third country" person. This can be verified on the French website for foreigners. The only difference is that as an EU national there is no charge where as, according to that website, the cost for "third Country" people is about 350 Euros. The logic seems to be there is no harm in getting one now for free and you may well need the translated documents another day anyway (like if your partner dies etc.) so the small amount you pay for official translations is not totally lost.

For Expats working in France they will be paying into the system, just like they do here in Germany. They will of course be covered by the French system anyway. The problem comes if you are retired and your healthcare is covered by an S1 form.

This was dealt with very early on and won't be a problem unless the UK crashes out of the EU i.e. a no deal situation in which case Barnier has said that because it is all or nothing then they may lose their S1 cover. If that were to happen then my father may well find that he has to return to the UK as may others that rely on their S1 cover. The same of course would happen to retired French citizens in the UK but seeing as many are there to work and few have moved there to retire it won't affect so many French.

I don't see any problem in either getting a CDS or waiting to see what happens. Basically it's a gamble and could go either way although unless you do something terribly wrong I can't see the French removing your residency status while you still hold a valid CDH. On the other hand who knows with the French?

[NormanH]

"Pointless things that don't fit in your wallet or your back pocket. They do nothing that your DL or passport does not do."

I have mine in my wallet since it is the same size as a credit card; it acts as ID in most situations (such as if I need it in the bank or in hospital) and, unlike a UK passport also has my address on it so it acts as a useful proof of where I live as well as my identity. It also has my fingerprints in the chip  on the card.

I used it 3 times last week.

[EuroTrash]

It's been said so many times - a carte or titre de séjour does not give you any new rights, it simply acts as proof of the rights that you have already acquired. Exactly like, it's not acquiring a bank card that gives you a bank account, you have to open the bank account before you can get a bank card. And yet people are still saying that a carte de séjour "gets you into the system". No it doesn't. It confirms that you are in the system. If you're not in the system, you won't get a carte de séjour.

[mogs]

Well I thought I'd better get the ball rolling, so emailed via the gouv website to ask for a RDV just to be told what documents are needed etc etc. Our prefecture, Perigueux don't give any info on their website.

Here is the email I received in reply:

Bonjour,

vous devez prendre rendez-vous sur le site Internet de la préfecture : www.dordogne.gouv.fr

Onglet : prendre un rendez-vous

Si vous êtes de nationalité britanniques, nous n'avons actuellement aucune place de disponible,

des plages de rendez-vous s'ouvriront prochainement.

dans l'attente, je vous rappelle que vous n'avez pas besoin de titre de séjour

cordialement

If I've understood that correctly they're saying as British we don't need one? Oh, while we wait for a RDV.

Why can't all depts do the same or is that just too easy.

Haven't these people heard about Brexit? ?

[idun]

Yes, that is right, they say that you don't need one, but you are, never the less, entitled to apply for one.

Incidentally, french friends are having to wait an age to get appointments to get passports and ID cards ordered. Sometimes having to drive a LONG way to get their passports sorted out and consequently pick them up.

[EuroTrash]

"Si vous êtes de nationalité britanniques, nous n'avons actuellement aucune place de disponible,

des plages de rendez-vous s'ouvriront prochainement."

If you're British there are currently no appointment slots available for you, but slots will become available in due course.

Actually that's quite a clever way of sort-of complying with the law that obliges them to issue CdS to all EU citizens who request them, but at the same time protecting themselves from the onslaught of panicking Brits - putting them off but not exactly turning them away.

[Laurier]

I wrote to the Prefecture at Alencon last year and was told that I did not need one, and one would be of no use anyway after Brexit. As I had read that we were entitled to one anyway, I did follow up asking them what I would need to do if I did want to apply for one. They sent the same reply back. After a third email to them, they just did not reply.

I did go in personally and asked the lady on reception if she could tell me who I should see or speak to in order to get information, and was blanked again. In the end, I decided to just wait and see what they ask for if and when everything is sorted.

As you say, it would be good if the Prefectures were consistent.

[andyh4]

Eurotrash wrote

"Si vous êtes de nationalité britanniques, nous n'avons actuellement aucune place de disponible,

des plages de rendez-vous s'ouvriront prochainement."

If you're British there are currently no appointment slots available for you, but slots will become available in due course.

Actually that's quite a clever way of sort-of complying with the law that obliges them to issue CdS to all EU citizens who request them, but at the same time protecting themselves from the onslaught of panicking Brits - putting them off but not exactly turning them away.

That would appear to be contrary to EU law by essentially discriminating against the British.

Which department is it?

[Cathar Tours]

I found the following for you.

http://accueil-etrangers.gouv.fr/demande-de-titre-de-sejour/vous-etes-ressortissant-e-de-l-ue/vous-etes-ressortissant-e-de-l-ue/

So a CDS is not obligatory for EU nationals but you can apply for one if you wish.

I personally would print the page off, highlight your option and then take it with you. If they still refuse ask for the persons name (politely of course) then inform them you intend to make a formal complaint to the Ministry of The Interior.

Also mention that you believe they are being racist and that you will be reporting that as well. My father found the latter worked well and got results although after using it he couldn't go back again (wink).

[nomoss]

If you have problems with officials, there is a procedure for making a complaint on line.

[url]https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/R20689[/url]

The most suitable procedure seems to be "Quels recours si le dossier de carte d'identité ou passeport est refusé ?"

If you "unfold" the information (tout déplier), you can see the steps to progress up the food chain, and can choose the appropriate level to begin your complaint.

The final link is for the Defenseur des droits", to be used if the Prefecture does not provide a satisfactory response.

This will require some documentary evidence, which you may already have in the form of the written/email responses from your Prefecture..