Documents for CdS Permanante

[Daft Doctor]

Sorry if I am going over old ground, but I'm pulling a dossier together for Mrs DD and I to get our CdS Perm and I had a couple of questions based on people's previous experiences:

1. Proving current domicile is easy, but we have to go back 5 years and prove continuous legal residence. There are gaps in the 5 years when either Mrs DD or I hasn't a utility bill in our own name. I wondered therefore if joint bank account statements are usually deemed acceptable for the purpose?

2. We also have a full history of RSI health reimbursement statements in Mrs DD's name, are those generally accepted as part of proof of continouous residence?

3. Is it best to apply as individuals, or for one to apply as a family member of the other, or does it make little difference?

The last thing I want to do is to go and be told to come back because a dossier isn't complete, but at the same time don't want to burn my printer out making copies of uneccessary documents. Any insight on what is and what isn't necessary will be much appreciated (and of course taken at face value)

[andyh4]

Cannot help with most of that DD but if you follow the advice to get a TdS then this is individually issued so you will both need one if UK nationals.

On point 1 I think you will need to elucidate a bit about why you or your partner are not on the utility bills for 5 years. Were you not in France continuously for the last 5 years perhaps? That could complicate things a bit. If it is just a case of the utilities being registered in just one name I think that could be explained and accepted.

[suein56]

Although it shouldn't happen it is acknowledged that each Préfecture has its own take on the application for the permanent cds.

So, have you looked at the actual requirements of your préfecture to get their definitive take on the matter ?

Usually you apply as individuals .. but I am confident that your préfecture will be able to give advice in the case of some missing documental proof.

[Daft Doctor]

Hi Andyh4, we have been on utlity bills throughout and have been continuously resident for 6 and a half years. The problem is that my name was mainly on the bills, as it is unusual for French electricity and internet companies to offer anything else but sole name accounts. In any case, our electricity and water bills are only issued once a year, and we don't use gas, so internet and mobiles are the only other utilities we use, and the only ones issuing monthly bills. There happens to be a gap in those bills because we changed provider and forgot to download the previous few invoices before they stopped giving us access. Even so, Mrs DD's mobile was on a general Orange internet and phone account in my name for a while. We put Mrs.DD's name on the internet account when we changed provider again, just to spread things a bit, but I have the problem that although my mobile account is in my name and I believe can be acceptable as proof of address these days, I have a gap or two from around 2 years ago when I only had the water and electricity in my name, with both of those bills coming in december only.

It would therefore be a good thing if they will accept joint bank statements to fill those gaps.....sorry, long winded reply!.....

[NormanH]

I backed up the EDF bills which you may not have with my Tax 'Avis' for each of the years..

[Daft Doctor]

Hi, I have 6 years' worth of Avis d'Impôts, tax d'habitation bills (with associated degrèvements), all in both our names of course, so have lots to fall back on. It's just like putting a timeline together that fits the brief. The say a document for each 6 months, which is fine, but does that mean they need to be dated 6 months apart, or just fall into the first or second semerster of each year?

[Daft Doctor]

Hi Norman, I have a full specrum of electricity bills, but as I said earlier, since we moved into our new house in 2014, they have only been issued once a year, in december, which coincides with our water bills...........

[Judith]

you certainly apply indiviually, but can have back to back appts. They took a mixture of bills to prove the 5 yrs.  TAke everything you can think of, they will take what they want.

[andyh4]

I see the problem DD but I think with a marriage certificate (which may or may not need to be translated officially depending on the prefecture) and proof of purchase / rental documents in both names, they should accept the utility bills in one name only. The annual bill I something that I am going to have to face myself and hope that in conjunction with everything else (driving licences, Avis de taxe, etc) that will be accepted.

[Mac]

I went to the Marie as well and they gave me a Certificate do domicile-basically an official stamped form giving the date we moved here. Worth trying if your commune is small or you are known to the Marie. I'm with Judith on this-our rdv is next week-I've just put in everything and anything I can think of. Tax forms , b/c, m/c, passport, avis d'impots, taxe hab & fonc. , bills, 5 years pension P60's each ( last one translated) , bank statements UK and French, Attestation, mutuelles and CV for health. They will take what they need. Maybe overkill but if they need it then it's there.

[Judith]

Indeed Mac.  What slightly (I hope only temporarily) stymied us was that we had all out bank statements too, but she didn't want them, but I hadn't been able to find all P60s, and such (try having a flood, it doesn't help when trying to find paperwork, all of which had to be moved for new floors!!), and what she said she needed to know was where our income came from (ie pensions) and that it would continue.  We had no real docs to say they will be for life as we know they are, but I understand that this is not always the case in France.  I had to send stuff on, using my own translation of the relevant parts.  Not a short job for 2 state pensions and a mixture of govt, personal, and company pensions for both, about 10 in total.  Small bits and pieces, nothing easy like one company pension etc.  P60's she didn't seem to be interested in, but I think she had had a bad morning and by then was looking for easy options.  Was not interested in carte vitale or healthcare (maybe she knew by then that all UK pensioners are covered on an S1, who knows).

It was one of the hottest days of the year and we were all frazzled by it.

Don't offer anything until asked. 

Seems to depend both on prefecture and who you get on the day.  Good luck.

Bl****y Br**it!

[idun]

I don't understand Judith, that there was an implication that french pensions are not for 'life', that is one thing I felt sure of.

I am now wondering what sort of pension isn't.  I have never heard of french pensions being stopped........ any idea what that is about.

[Judith]

Idun,

Well I don't know either, but that was what I was told!  I foudn the whole thing about income stupid, as they could easily see from our impôts that we'd had sufficient money coming in for the whole 5 years required, and I had them all with me, back to when we first came ... it shouldn't really have been necessary for any more than that ... my reading says that after 5 years you have gained the right to stay here permanently and legally and that income at that point is irrelevant.  But I am sure the prefecs (or the fonctionnaires rather) make it up as they go along, just to have the power over you that they crave as fonctionnaires. 

As it happens, for me, if I had to go back it would not be the end of the world, but the manner of being made to do so rather than by choice would be annoying!

[idun]

I have tried to look it up, but the only thing I could find was if people started the process of retiring and then wanted to delay, they could.

That is not to say that this does not exist, just this numpty couldn't find it.

Something happened to us during the Thatcher years, that was worse than annoying. It was when the greed infection started in the UK and EVERYONE we knew was affected by it, and we know some lovely people.

When we got our french mortgage it was about 18%, no choice, but the way they did it was that for the first few years, our repayments would not even keep up with the interest, so after about 4 or five years, we owed way more than we had borrowed. House prices in France had remained pretty stable during that time.

It would have all sorted itself out eventually and we would at some point have paid it all off and owned our home, but at that point we just owed boat loads of money.

In the mean time, the house we had sold in the UK that was a third of the cost of our french one, had gone up so much in price that it was more than the value of our french one and we would have left France with huge debts, if we had returned to the UK. Whereas we had had some money when we moved to France, at least enough for a deposit on a house.

And we would not have been able to afford our old house, never mind anywhere else. So for years, we were

exiled.

And that was awful and I did having a feeling of being trapped.

ps

Interest rates came down, and we changed our french mortgage several times and paid the house off. But the prices kept pace with inflation, I checked as we were leaving, the UK's madness with house prices, continued/continue.

[Noisette]

I could write a book, Judith! Having just been through the interview process for nationality, got the Recepisse, been told that the dossiers would go straight off to Paris, I was disappointed to receive yet another letter from the Préfecture four days later asking for another load of justificatifs. At least half of which they've got already. When you read of the experiences of Brits living in PACA, who sail through the process with the greatest of ease, you do get the tiniest impression that only the stinking rich need apply :-)

[NormanH]

Each préfecture has its own list of what is needed, and Béziers has always been 'manned' by particularly difficult people.

That was the main reason that I didn't apply for Nationality years ago, having been put off by the attitude of the staff there.

Last time I renewed it was in Foix and the difference was amazing, which just goes to show that one should never generalise; each of us knows the experience we have had, but can never be  certain that it will be the same for  others especially elsewhere.

[Judith]

NormanH, Thank you for confirming that the staff at Beziers and "particularly difficult".  My experience there, every time.  I thought it was just me and my OK but by no means perfect French!

[Daft Doctor]

Thanks for all the help. I've just made back to back appointments for Mrs DD and I in early November, so lots of time to pull the necessary (and unnecessary!) bits and pieces together. The Haute Savoie website is fairly vague about required documentation, but they do say they do not have the facility to copy and that originals and copies of everything are needed. I don't get any paper bills or statements these days except the annual water bill, so they can keep the 'originals' of anything they like.........

[mint]

[quote user="Daft Doctor"] The Haute Savoie website is fairly vague about required documentation, but they do say they do not have the facility to copy and that originals and copies of everything are needed. I don't get any paper bills or statements these days except the annual water bill, so they can keep the 'originals' of anything they like.........[/quote]

I emailed my préfecture, giving them a link to their own website with their list of required documentation.  I asked whether the list was "à jour" and asked whether there were other necessary papers not on the list.

They replied the following day with the up-to-date list with detailed instructions.

You might like to look at the date of the list on the HS site just to check the date and if it's an "old" list, you might then wish to do as I did?

[Judith]

Thought a quick update might be useful:

Pardon my unbelief, because yesterday you could have knocked me down with a feather! There I was in the clinic for an X-ray, and digging in handbag for the

CV, when the mobile rang. A text saying our carte de sejours are disponible, à J 1,

which I presume means from today!. So though I had had no récipisse,

and no statement of what happened next, and had to send translations of

pensions in later, it has worked! Our RDV was 5 weeks last Friday, on

the hottest day of the year I think, so within the 5-6 weeks often stated.

Hope that will cheer the still waiting to hear from Beziers.

Phew!! Feeling very relieved.

And perhaps, Norman H, though the staff can be "difficult" at least this time they seem to have done what they were supposed to do, even if with less than perfect grace!  Let's just blame it on the weather as we were all frazzled by the heat!

[Doodle]

DD re your item 3. I asked our prefecture if we had to have an apointment each and was told we must have separate appointments. So we now have appointments with a 1 hour slot separating us which I think is good as that gives me time to take the originals off the OH to take in with me!

I don't know whether I will be classed as a family member or not but OH says don't if you don't have to as you may have to go through it all again if I (he) 'snuffs it' so would be glad to hear anyone's comments on this.

I copied everything for the last 5 years and then read the latest RIFT letter that suggests doing the last 10! I've now got a massive file of 10 years of docs for the both of us - some the same ie tax, habitation, fonciere, bank statements, savings statements and have been told that as well as the 6 monthly ones all bank statements are needed for the last 90 days before the appointment.

I've also got the OH to sign an attestation of herbergement that I printed off for me as someone I know was asked to supply one as like me the lady of that household doesn't have anything in her name. I've also just had my name included and printed off an EDF Attestation Titulaire du Contrat. Like you I don't want to not have with me something that we're asked for as it's an 80km round trip and my thinking is better to use up my printer ink. Oh and not forgetting I have transferred everything and more besides onto a USB key that will be going with us just in case they want more!

One thing I do know is once we get our appointments over and done with we are out to celebrate big!

https://www.remaininfrance.org/no-deal-checklist.html

[Doodle]

A big thank you to all for the information posted on this forum re CdS. We went on Monday and after a very thorough investigation of all of our documents by two extremely nice interviewers we came out waving our Recipisse de Demand de CdS and were told we would be able to collect the cards in about 6 weeks. Mrs KG.

[Judith]

It's a great feeling, isn't it.  And such a relief!

[Kong]

We are waiting......sigh...

[mogs]

No luck with Perigueux yet for a RDV