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having trouble with the Mairie


wanderer45
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Hi, a newbie here. We purchased a plot of land in the centre of a small village near Dinan quite a few years ago. The land was in a very overgrown state with a small old stone building that required renovation. We bought the property with the correct renovation permission, which if I recall, was the certificate of urbanism. We met the "Main Man" of the Mairie at the time and everything has been fine. Things as they are and for personal reasons we have not been able to renovate the property and it has been left pretty much as it was and had been for decades. Recently the land adjacent has been sold and cleared and we have received quite a hostile and snotty email from the Mairie basically telling us to clear the land and demolish an old shed - this has been the only communication we have ever received. The purchaser of the adjacent land has also started a boundary demarcation procedure which I am familiar with, I presume some sort of development is on the way on their land. Big do's and little do's some rather iffy communications appear to be going on in the background with others and despite my request from the Mairie for a response to some pretty basic details, the request has been met with complete silence. It's a small village <1500 souls, but I a don't really know if I want to do anything with the site now, they seem quite hostile to me. Question, can the Mairie force me to clear all the land and remove the existing shed from our land ? any advice appreciated
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Hi wanderer45, and welcome to the forum.

I wonder if, on your certificat d'urbanisme, there was some kind of set date for your intended works to be completed? That could explain why you are getting hassle.

Also, are you keeping on top of the weeds on your plot? I think neighbours can insist you cut them down before they go to seed. This may be another potential bone of contention.

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There is an uncleared plot next to my place. Thus far, I have managed to get a one metre strip cleared and a letter from the mairie ordering this to be done. However, they tell me that they cannot force the owner to clear the land which has the remains of an old house on it, unless there is a health issue such as rats.

So, maybe ypu could clear a strip tight round, one metre wide.

It sounds as if the mayor is bullying you, maybe to get you to sell, certainly shouting at Johnny Foreigner.

Does that state of your plot make any difference to the development or would it be a valuable addition to what is going on?

Maybe pop over and beard the mayor in his den or even put the land up for sale?

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Hi thanks for the welcome. No there was no time restriction other than the standard which I understand is 3 years or something and you have to apply again. To be fair to them we haven't kept up with the weeds but it pretty much is in the same state as when we purchased and had been for decades. The adjacent land has also been in the same state. The email was really off hand and given that they hadn't communicated with us at all in the past they might have started with a friendly one eg we notice you haven't been to the village, the hedge is getting a little overgrown we know a gardener who will keep on top of it for you etc. For all they knew I could have been dead !! I certainly believe you would never receive such a snotty email in the UK from effectively a government organisation. Is this normal practice, maybe i'm being too sensitive ?
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Hi thanks for you reply. I don't want to really put exactly what they have said for identification sake in the future, never know who looks at the pages !!

Ive had some correspondence from a geometre and its all very cordial and pleasant. The one from the Mairie has underlining and bold in different areas and very direct. They ask 'have I ever been to ???( the village)'

I have ever been to the 'Mairie'. Its all very terse. I replied I had in both cases but I sort of considered if I choose to do either is surely up to me. The property came up for sale and the locals and the Mairie had the option to purchase it, neither did. I agree there are formal letters that can be to suit all situations but this one is not generic

They obtained my email address from a third party company and all of them seem to have no respect at all for the GDPR regs for data protection - who really knows who has all my details. When I asked who provided the Mairie with my email address all went quiet.

The whole situation with the different parties appears to be a little underhand and cloak and daggers. I am of the opinion that the land has some value because of its location in front of the other land that has been sold. The sudden interest in having it all tidy could be nothing more than a smoke screen to encourage us to sell. I guess I just would like to know how much power the local Mairie really has and also other peoples experiences in small rural villages.
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Thanks John FB, I know what you mean re a chat. Problem is my French is terrible and the OH's isn't good enough yet for a meaningful phone discussion.

When we purchased the property the seller made a couple of comments re the current mayor AFTER we had completed the sale. At the time I considered them throwaway comments but this does now make me wonder.

Might have to see how it pans out and get my French vocab book out !!

Many thanks to all those who replied
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But why now, suddenly when the land around is being developed? Someone wants that land and probably cheap. In my last commune there was much land skulduggery which went on, often involving the mayor’s friends or family, where the zoning was changed from farmland to residential.

Get a valuation or simply set your price.
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I take on board BritinBretagne's comment and there is only limited detail I can put on the forum. With that in mind please believe me, it really isn't that untidy. There is no rubbish, old cars, in fact it is behind a large hedge which is the only real issue they could have. Its quite an intriguing property 'the real deal' as they say. Trying to keep to the original posting and keeping an openmind, I always go by my gut instinct and that tells me something is not right - that may come out in the fullness of time. In the event that my gut instinct is right I would like to be prepared with the legal situation as I may need to act quickly. Wooly banana, you do have a good point , one of the mairie employee surnames is the same as the person who has bought the development land. I don't know if they are connected ???? I would like to think in 2019 the behaviour you describe has gone, but it is both an insight and slightly depressing thought to hear that it still goes on. Thanks
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You mentioned a large hedge. Does this run alongside a road? We had trouble in my last village with a hedge impinging on a road. Despite asking the owner to trim it, he would not answer our (the councils) letters. The council trimmed it in the end and sent him the bill, which he did eventually pay.

One could wonder why they did not write a letter to you at your UK address? Perhaps they are wary of you using official correspondence against them.

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Without putting too finer point on it, our village notaire and the maire when we bought our land, imo were very very iffy to say the least.

Ofcourse we found out later, but really too late then, and the problems from the time the lotissment was started, even up to now, still exist. Our old neighbours have had a right battle and lost, the current Mairie giving a permis de construire for a home that will in fact be built on land that should not be built on and I will say adjacent to the lottisement, but more or less of on top of it.

If I were you, I would rather think that you should find and speak to a notaire in rather a big city, without connections to the village your land is in. French villages can be rather 'incestuous'.

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The hedge is near a pavement and someone does seem to cut it, I don't know who though. I would be quite willing to pay the council or whoever cuts it for doing so. It would save me the task of finding someone reliable to cut it. I don't want to cause inconvenience to others.

Given that no one AT ALL has ever been in touch in writing, by email or phone I do find it really odd that they would not ask me to trim it if it is a problem and my responsibility, or invoice me. As I wrote in an earlier post you would think that the council might give me a friendly warning first or ask if we are having problems etc. If we didn't reply then I could see why it might get peoples backs up, but that has not happened.
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I think you are right Idun. It's as if we are back in the 1600's with some sort of feudal system. I'm all for giving control back at a local level but you would hope that some sort of checking and transparency protocol was in place. From what I am concluding, there isn't. It's good to get feedback from people who have had similar experiences. I think there is probably a reluctance to say anything about the local mairie for fear of receiving a difficult time. I was advised by a local to give the maire some wine and tell him our kids were going to the local school. I didn't of course, i'm just not doing that sort of sucking up. I bought the land that no one wanted and I will do what I will with it subject to respect for others and abiding by the law.
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...unless they HAVE written to your U.K. address in the past, but addressed the envelope in such a chaotic fashion that it never reached you.

U.K. postcodes - fairly understandably - seem to baffle the French, as they do not fit into the neat boxes on their own national forms and envelopes, and they contain a mixture of letters and figures. I have miraculously received some to eg: AB123 CD instead of AB12 3CD and many other variations.
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I wondered about that myself, but then you would think they would make reference to that in their stroppy email e.g we wrote to you on blah blah blah and you have done nothing etc etc.

I cannot give loads of details out here but basically when I wrote back to them they said the maire would reply and then absolutely nothing despite me sending the odd chaser emails - it's been months now.
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[quote user="Loiseau"] ..............U.K. postcodes - fairly understandably - seem to baffle the French,  .............................[/quote]

Some La Poste employees can also be baffled by French postcodes being written in English numerals.

One letter from England took weeks to reach us because our postcode was written beginning with 111 instead of with three inverted V's, and arrived with these written large on the cover in blue crayon.

I don't know what on earth to tell friends what to write for "111". Printed postcodes don't seem to be a problem.

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[quote user="wanderer45"]I wondered about that myself, but then you would think they would make reference to that in their stroppy email e.g we wrote to you on blah blah blah and you have done nothing etc etc.

I cannot give loads of details out here but basically when I wrote back to them they said the maire would reply and then absolutely nothing despite me sending the odd chaser emails - it's been months now.[/quote]

Did you walk your boundary with the geomètre during his recent visit, and agree on it with respect to any markers (bornes)?

We were asked to do this when we bought a rural property which was formerly part of a larger one.

We had previously agreed and recorded a line to split it from the larger property, but our section was not completely fenced. It had ditches where no fences existed, and there were bornes in the ditches to mark the corners.

Also, is your boundary clearly defined, do you have details of any survey of the boundary when you bought the land, and did you verify this at the time you bought it?

In view of your uneasiness about the situation, it might be advisable to visit your property to check nothing has been interfered with, possibly together with a trusted French speaker.

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That is another story re the Geometre !!! but yes we have all the deeds with referenced bornes on the ground and dimensions to existing buildings. It would be very difficult, but not impossible for them to shift the boundaries a little. In the scheme of things I wouldn't be too fussed if they moved the one boundary that could be fudged.
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And I too heard the same thing, but only on this board when I first joined, that one should suck up to the local

maire, but by that time I had been in France far too long to be more than

appalled by such a suggestion.

Most of ours would have taken the

bottle, shaken our hands   with a smile, but it would not have stopped

them being underhanded and slippery deceivers. We truly  had some awful awful Maire's and only one fantastic one during our 25 years in that village.

One of the maire's had a french friend  of ours arrested and his home and place of work searched, poor bloke nearly lost his job because of that........ as the Maire believed it was he who had committed an act of slander against him and his office.  Nothing came of it, as the gendarmes could find nothing, but there again, I doubt some of 'them' could find their own backsides.

I never did ask our friend if he had been involved in the campaign against the Maire and his minions plans. At least someone had started to do something, as it needed doing.

As it happens,  as I said something needed doing and in the end it was  me that put the sabot in the works and stopped that particular Maire's 'plans' and of that I am rather proud, and all done perfectly legally[:D]

wanderer, sounds like you need to go and see what is happening and find a 'city' notaire.  Look up the Chambres de Notaires in your Dept and see if you can see one for free.

You would have to make an appointment.

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[quote user="idun"]
And I too heard the same thing, but only on this board when I first joined, that one should suck up to the local

maire, but by that time I had been in France far too long to be more than

appalled by such a suggestion ..........................[/quote]

I too am appalled at the suggestion. A popular myth among city types moving to live alongside the unsophisticated yokels in the countryside everywhere.

Does anyone do this in their own home town? (well, maybe some creepy individuals do)

A corollary is "integrating into the local community", a creed popular with (mainly unwelcome) immigrants, such as those who moved into my UK village, deplored by most of the locals, which I have studiously avoided attempting to do in every country I have lived in.

Mainly, but not only, to avoid being involved in local animosities, bickering, and feuding.

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QUOTE Nomoss

...I don't know what on earth to tell friends what to write for "111". Printed postcodes don't seem to be a problem....

END QUOTE

I would get them to add the name of the département, in the old-fashioned way!

I remember now that for all my official French stuff coming to my English address, I eventually made sure it would include the name of my London borough just to help in the case of fractured postcodes.

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For '1's, I always write as '1' or slightly differently like on this display

So the little jaunty angle at the top and a line below......... too late at night to think of the proper terms, but that is what I always do, so as not to confuse anyone. It is a 'classic' '1'[:)]

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