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Marketing Proposal


Wilko
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Point made and understood but have now "links for photos' deal ( they use my photos and link me on there pages) with a few indie travel guide sites. 2 linked now and 5 in the offing. Page view hits are 50% targeted at the mo, i.e. Capendu, Durban directed google hits. 50% are hits from travel forums and other travel web sites.I have a good control panel on yahoo to see which pages are being hit and why and from which source. The accommodation in France page's been hit 266 times so far from links within franceinfocus.net and neither the main page or the advert pages are yet to be listed on search engines. Ad one = 34 hits Ad 2 = 41 hits and ad 3= 38 hits. This site is only a hobby for me but ego dictates i must make it well 'hit'.

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I actually quite like the idea of your regional guide (my own Pyrenees guide at www.mascamps.com/region/en.htm is similar but more comprehensive, essentially because it's easy for me to nip out and take the photos).

What really annoys me, and I suspect others, is that big list of keywords on what presumably will ultimately become the index to your regional guides. It looks like it will take years for you to complete the guides but in the meantime I for one curse every time I accidently end up on your site looking for something only to find that the name is there but nothing else.

Those other pages are indexed because you have links to them from other pages on your site. They just don't appear high on google etc. because there is little text on them.

Anyway, onward and upward with ourinns.org... now featuring 10 places if my counting is right.

 

Arnold

 

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Keep it going Arnold.

Looks like Limousin are sprinting ahead ! Have no fear at least 2 to come from Brittany yet !

Still a few with B&B's on here without an entry, I can't understand why ? If you don't get any bookings so what ....but you will and don't forget.....He who dares wins Rodders

 

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I have seen Arnold's idea for a bed and breakfast web site

ourinns.org.     I run a bed and breakfast near to Lyon

www.bedbreakfrance.com         I had the same idea as

him some months ago, my site called Assocation Bed and

Breakfast France, www.ababf.com, www.ababf.org

is up and running with links to bed and breakfasts in

Holland and soon Germany and Scandinavia.    70 people

have already joined and will be on the site within 2 weeks.

I have place for another 30 owners.    I will put you on

my site free of charge and pay you for any bookings that

you make for clients to stay at my bed and breakfast,

5€ for each booking.      I will also distribute to any one

who stays at my bed and breakfast the entire printed

guide.

Let me know if you want to be on the site.

 

Gerald

21/02/05

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Arnold, it's looking great, with the maps too - congratulations on getting it going so quickly!  I think there's a real need for it.  I don't have a B&B myself, though I have passed details on to some friends who do.

One thing occurs to me, speaking as the equivalent of a visitor coming to the page for the first time: I know the URL is "Our Inns", but I think it would be helpful at the top of the title page to have a sub-heading that included the words "bed-and-breakfast" as, to me, "inn" could mean more of a small hotel. Something like:

Our Inns

Small hotels and bed-&-breakfasts in France

All our properties are owner-run accommodation offering you the finest hospitality

 

Of course, you probably aren't going to restrict it to France, in which case forget that word in the sub-heading! 

Angela

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Apologies to LF... we all got the marketing fever I think.

And to 'tothers... I was going to say "may the best man win" but I hope that in the end it's all the owners that win. We've now got more, and better, sites to promote ourselves on and that can only be good for us all in the long run.

Anyway, let's hope that the added competition keeps all us site operators on our toes and working that bit harder for the owners. All being well, the biggest problem that we all face this summer is that we keep needing to turn people away 'cos we're full!

Hope LF will forgive one final small "commercial" message... I was floating the idea offboard yesterday that those on ourinns should consider offering 5% discount to customers in an effort to help keep them within the province of the family run B&Bs/inns/hotels. I'll make the first pre-emptive strike on that front and offer it myself.

 

Arnold

 

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It's an idea I've thought of many times Arnold, but didn't have the technical know-how to take it further.  I agree that it should remain purely B&B as so often I get enquiries for gite accommodation because some of the sites I appear on are for self-catering accommodation as well, and people rarely read the details!

I'll send you my details straight away.  The trouble is, I can't really recommend anyone else, as just about all the B&B people I know are those I have met via this site - Will, Miki, Quillan....

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A few things have struck me in the course of replies from people and as I've entered their details on the site:

1. Although most people hope to attract UK customers, nobody except me has a UK phone number.

2. A lot of people aren't quite sure how to accept credit cards.

 

Anyway, I've added a mini-faq on the new owners' page to cover these points. The issue of the phone number seems to be the kind of thing that, whilst in principle could be asked on the forums here, never is because nobody thinks to ask it (or at least not that I've seen).

I think that aspect of the site will be useful to all and would be interested in adding any general "how do I do X" type tips that people would like to share. Our differing backgrounds and experience means that we all have something a little different to offer.

 

Arnold

 

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Good ideas, I would add that TBH the above sites need a professional touch added to them, or at least more time spent on the ‘look’ - to stop them being perceived as a bit "homebuilt" this would add confidence for the website user - broken images, unformatted content, broken links all add up to the 'un-maintained website' look - implying the listings are out of date and the user may get no reply to enquiries

Please don’t take offence these are just my observations, on the marketing side, we offer free marketing to both individual sites or sites similar to the two being discussed, I wont put the URL here but anyone can contact me if interested

 

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Neither http://www.bedandbreakfastfrance.org/ nor www.ourinns.org are "homebuilt". Both are designed and maintained by IT professionals who each have more than 18 years experience. Neither have broken links, unformatted content nor broken links. Neither are they blatently trying to push webdesign services as you clearly are.

On the marketing side, I don't know Neil's (who is the designer of bedandbreakfastfrance.org) background well enough to say but I think you'll find that my own marketing MBA and Chartered Institute of Marketing professional qualifications hard to beat. On a more practical point, I'm also behind one of the top ranked regional tourism guides for the Pyrenees ie I know how to get a site to the top of the listings.

As to the third, http://www.franceinfocus.net/, as the author states, it is a hobby site and one wouldn't expect the same quality of design work.

For those considering Spash Internet, they will get you a nice looking website because that's what they're about. Don't fall into the trap of the "free" marketing though because you will most certainly be paying for it one way or the other. Both Gerald (bedandbreakfastfrance.org) and myself have slightly different reasons for getting into the B&B site listings business but both sites will genuinely be free to those that list with us. Don't think that'll mean that you will end up with a downmarket, poorly ranked listing either because both of us are doing a lot behind the scenes to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

Arnold

 

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OK first off
I wrote >> Please don’t take offence these are just my observations
You obv. have - oh well constructive criticism is useful if you learn how to accept it

Arnold wrote >> Both are designed and maintained by IT professionals who each have more than 18 years experience.
I stand by my original words - they still 'look' unprofessional to me - but as I said thats a my opinion - if you dont like it - tough

Arnold wrote >> Neither have broken links, unformatted content nor broken links
Simple link checkers / broken image checkers are free and should be part of anyones pre-launch checks http://www.mascamps.com/ourinns/en/corse.htm I could prob list more but dont have time to look

Arnold wrote >> Neither are they blatently trying to push webdesign services as you clearly are.
In fact no I'm not, It was in my mind to offer help depending on how my post was recieved - I think the idea is good - not new but being 'on the ground' here provides more insight than some of the sites run from elsewhere

Arnold wrote >> I think you'll find that my own marketing MBA and Chartered Institute of Marketing professional qualifications hard to beat
Did I ever challenge them?

Arnold wrote >> For those considering Spash Internet, they will get you a nice looking website because that's what they're about.
No we are not - we are Internet Marketeers, we are not focused on 'nice looking' - although that helps a lot once you get the visitor to your site - which is are core strength

Arnold wrote >> Don't fall into the trap of the "free" marketing though because you will most certainly be paying for it one way or the other.
In fact what I was offering has nothing to do with my core business "Splash internet" its an entirely different offer - and no you wont be paying for it in one way or another

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OK first off
I wrote >> Please don’t take offence these are just my observations
You obv. have - oh well constructive criticism is useful if you learn how to accept it

Fair enough.

Arnold wrote >> Both are designed and maintained by IT professionals who each have more than 18 years experience.
I stand by my original words - they still 'look' unprofessional to me - but as I said thats a my opinion - if you dont like it - tough

I think you'll find that both the sites of Neil and myself are a great deal more professional looking than the vast majority of listings sites around. Both are also "first generation" and will only get better as time goes on.

Arnold wrote >> Neither have broken links, unformatted content nor broken links
Simple link checkers / broken image checkers are free and should be part of anyones pre-launch checks http://www.mascamps.com/ourinns/en/corse.htm I could prob list more but dont have time to look

You won't find anymore because that is the only broken image that is (was) on the site. The site was checked before going live and Corsica was a last minute addition that I'd forgotten all about.

Arnold wrote >> Neither are they blatently trying to push webdesign services as you clearly are.
In fact no I'm not, It was in my mind to offer help depending on how my post was recieved - I think the idea is good - not new but being 'on the ground' here provides more insight than some of the sites run from elsewhere

It comes across as blatant promotion to me. Both our sites should succeed in time not because we're here but because we are trying to put the interest of the B&B owners first.

Arnold wrote >> For those considering Spash Internet, they will get you a nice looking website because that's what they're about.
No we are not - we are Internet Marketeers, we are not focused on 'nice looking' - although that helps a lot once you get the visitor to your site - which is are core strength

I agree that a site needs to be "nice looking" when you get there but, as you say, getting the people there in the first place is the object. We could both probably have held back the launch and made the sites "prettier" but it is more in the interests of the B&B owners to have a site that is there well before the holiday period starts than have a prettier site that takes a few more weeks to go live. That's not to say that the sites won't become prettier between now and the summer, just that they are "pretty enough" at the moment; the thing to concentrate on now is the improvement of their rankings in search engines and that's what we're doing.

Arnold wrote >> Don't fall into the trap of the "free" marketing though because you will most certainly be paying for it one way or the other.
In fact what I was offering has nothing to do with my core business "Splash internet" its an entirely different offer - and no you wont be paying for it in one way or another

Hmmm.

 

Mike

Splash

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Arnold - here are some more points to think on, again think of them as constructive critisim - needless to say I stand by all my earlier points -  I found these map images broken:

http://www.mascamps.com/ourinns/en/rhonealpes.htm
http://www.mascamps.com/ourinns/en/bourgogne.htm
http://www.mascamps.com/ourinns/en/hautenormandie.htm

I also see no doc type in most pages, little or no meta information and built in a frameset all of which are not going to help you with search engine positioning, hopefully those are in the process of correction

On a usability note;

http://www.bedandbreakfastfrance.org
Please correct me if I'm wrong here - Go to the homepage, click on enter site, ok an interactive map - I live in the Midi-Pyrenees so I click on that, now Im lost - whats going on? where do I go?

You are right web-pages are not just about 'nice looking' nor are they just about search engines / marketing - its about getting all the parts of a web-page right, from the (X)HTML to the cross browser compatability to the usability, to the accessibility for both the sighted and the visualy imparied**

** anyone reading this with a website (a website is a service) may be breaking laws if you fail to observe this one

I hope you can see my point, I dont think those sites are professional at all but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise and hope the above gives some food for thought

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This message is directed at Mike (slash internet)

Why are you being so anti. You come across as a new age capitalist who probably has a big house and big 7 seater car but with only a family of 4. Everything has to be bigger and better. Leave the small businesses alone!!!!

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Of course it would be bigger. You are obviosly the type of "business MAN" (that being used in the widest context), that most of us have moved from England to escape.

 

I,ve visited your site and find no links which I class as helpful and I'm easy to please!!

Captain H

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Mike,

The B&B owners topic is not the place to comment on or criticise web design or to tout for website design business as you are doing. However, since you have criticised my abilities here I thought that I would take a brief look at your own.

I have tried to find your clients on the internet in vain. You appear to have only used the "cookie cutter" approach to getting them listed rather than the much more successful, personalised approach to listings. I appreciate that all the latest tools available make the "free" marketing that you can with them do look like a bargain but, as I hope you know, it isn't.

I have looked at your client sites and it's clear that the "cookie cutter" approach is your style as a number of the sites are clearly clones of one another (although, I doubt if that affected the fee that each client paid). I don't say that as a criticism though for sometimes a common "house style" is a useful discipline;  both myself and Neil offer a more personal approach.

I have looked at some of your French translations. To put it mildly, I have seen better. That is, of course, aside from the fact that a French website is somewhat less useful than most people expect without prior knowledge. You have accepted money from clients to write a poor version of their site in French when you presumably already know that other languages would almost certainly be more useful for them. Perhaps you have advised them otherwise, but it would appear not from their testamonials.

All that is, of course, aside from the fact that "internet marketing" is rarely sufficient on its own. Anyone that thinks that just by buying a website, no matter how good it is, will bring them all the clients that they ever need is living in cloud cookoo land. I don't know if you intend to do it or not, but your site definitely gives the impression that all they need to do is buy a website off you.

Even a website plus a listing on a single listings site isn't enough. I encourage people to list on as many places as they can manage (subject to a sensible budget) because you simply never know how your future clients will find you. Even if ourinns.org does manage to get to be the number one B&B listings site for France (and it will slowly and surely move towards that spot), I would still encourage people to list elsewhere as well.

I encourage people to try the inprint advertising too. I know from conversations from other owners, much more experienced than I, that it can work very well.

Criticism is good. As time goes on, I hope that people will continue to criticise and make suggestions for the development of ourinns as they have already. Those comments have been and will be taken on board and the site will continue to evolve over time to become, I hope, one of the best places around for both owners and their clients. The difference from commercial sites is that the evolution will happen, unlike the stagnation that seems to have afflicted a number of commercial equivalents.

 

Arnold

 

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The B&B owners topic is not the place to comment on or criticise web design or to tout for website design business as you are doing. However, since you have criticised my abilities here I thought that I would take a brief look at your own.
Please do

I have tried to find your clients on the internet in vain.
mmmm....well, I will let others be the judge of that!

You appear to have only used the "cookie cutter" approach to getting them listed rather than the much more successful, personalised approach to listings. I appreciate that all the latest tools available make the "free" marketing that you can with them do look like a bargain but, as I hope you know, it isn't.
ROFL - Im not even sure what you are talking about - not making sense to me

I have looked at your client sites and it's clear that the "cookie cutter" approach is your style as a number of the sites are clearly clones of one another (although, I doubt if that affected the fee that each client paid). I don't say that as a criticism though for sometimes a common "house style" is a useful discipline;  both myself and Neil offer a more personal approach.
I build what people want - do you really think I say 'OK this is what your getting' - or do you mean by 'clones' that they have a left hand menu and a top header, like 80% of the sites out there?

I have looked at some of your French translations. To put it mildly, I have seen better.
Please do point this out to me (via the contact form on my site) - I would be most interested, and IF you are correct thankyou for bring this to my attention

That is, of course, aside from the fact that a French website is somewhat less useful than most people expect without prior knowledge.
You have accepted money from clients to write a poor version of their site in French when you presumably already know that other languages would almost certainly be more useful for them. Perhaps you have advised them otherwise, but it would appear not from their testamonials.
Where on earth did you drag that gem from - are you suggesting that  a french language website is not wise? why ever not - I hope your not suggesting that french people do not use the net!!

All that is, of course, aside from the fact that "internet marketing" is rarely sufficient on its own. Anyone that thinks that just by buying a website, no matter how good it is, will bring them all the clients that they ever need is living in cloud cookoo land.
As I pointed out earlier - there is far, far more to a website than simply building it .
And yes, I can honestly say that your version of  cookoo land does indeed exist

I don't know if you intend to do it or not, but your site definitely gives the impression that all they need to do is buy a website off you.
Its one of the most cost effective form of advertising - if done correctly working alongside traditional marketing - however - I know several 'internet only' businesses that are doing 'very well thankyou'

Even a website plus a listing on a single listings site isn't enough. I encourage people to list on as many places as they can manage (subject to a sensible budget) because you simply never know how your future clients will find you. Even if ourinns.org does manage to get to be the number one B&B listings site for France (and it will slowly and surely move towards that spot), I would still encourage people to list elsewhere as well.
I encourage people to try the inprint advertising too. I know from conversations from other owners, much more experienced than I, that it can work very well.
At last some sense - I will watch with interest over the coming months

Criticism is good. As time goes on, I hope that people will continue to criticise and make suggestions for the development of ourinns as they have already. Those comments have been and will be taken on board and the site will continue to evolve over time to become, I hope, one of the best places around for both owners and their clients. The difference from commercial sites is that the evolution will happen, unlike the stagnation that seems to have afflicted a number of commercial equivalents.
And the best of luck - and I mean it - although you are suggesting that your site is not commercial, you are running adsense, that makes it commercial in my books

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