legal stance, what to do...??

[Cassis]

[quote user="jc"]I would always ask to see the room first-not to pick holes but to check that it is as advertised.[/quote]

Good idea.  Photos and descriptions in adverts rarely do justice.  If it looks better than expected, don't forget to pay more. [:D]

[Rob Roy]

[quote user="Quillan"]

There are a few things to think about here. Firstly and technically there is no such thing as a B&B in France, they are called Chambres D'hotes (room of hosts) and an evening meal is referred to as Table D'hotes (table of hosts).

Something that seems to have been forgotten by many on this forum.

I know us Brits tend to call them B&B's and the meal evening meal but to keep things correct I will will use the abbreviated form of the French version namely CDH and TDH respecively.

A CDH offers many things but in the main you are staying with a family, in their home as a paying guest.

So why is there so much agonising by contributors here about what to include in the rooms, toilet articles, trouser press, etc. Would you do this for your 'normal' friends and guests, even paying ones?

You get a much more personal service, high quality accommodation and a lot more freedom that a small hotel.. Technically if you offer a choice of food (menu), place them on individual tables, don't eat with them and allow them to have their evening meal at any other time than you would have yours

Hands up all those who actually do that, quite a few I suspect........

then you have become a restaurant and then it's a different ball game. By this I mean you need a separate kitchen which will be regularly inspected, guests food to be kept separately and you must have the ability to trace all food stuff back from the table to the source. Also your tax regime etc will change and for many the cost would mean it's not worth while doing.

.......................[/quote]

In my opinion the whole original concept of Chambre d'hote is being erroded by (usually British) people trying to run their establishments as small hotels, and as a principal income earner, rather than a suppliment to main income.

 

[Cassis]

Yup - which is partly (but not entirely) why the hotel trade is pressing for increased regulation on B&Bs.  Oops, sorry, no such thing as B&B - I meant shambles d'hôtes.

I don't think it is confined to Brit owners, though.

[Cassis]

[quote user="woolybanana"]I don't think you mean Consular General, Quillan. I suspect that something like local authority or regional development authority would work better[/quote]

I suspect you're right and that "Consular General" is just an idiosyncratic (possibly Babelfish?) translation of "Conseil Général".

[Russethouse]

[quote user="wen"]

jc, we have travelled all over France, the UK and Spain. Not all establishments would allow this. You either take the room or sod off.

The thing is, our rooms are exactly as advertised. Some with extra features even since they booked.

In our case, they are time-wasters. [/quote]

 

Sorry Wen, That isn't always the case....I booked on a BF deal to stay at a hotel in Morgat, nice place but the room we were taken to hadn't had the bed made or been cleaned at 5pm - I just went downstairs and asked for a different room, cleaned  and with fresh bedding.  We were given a great room with a sea view, just because I had nowhere else to go didn't mean that I should get less than I paid for.

Reading this thread I do wonder how many people thought that being hospitable to Joe Public was an easier option than it has turned out to be........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cassis]

Being hospitable is very easy.  It's just the selfish tosspots, thankfully few and relatively far between, who get short shrift.

[mascamps.com]

MM: Why not get a credit card machine and avoid the problems? Even via CA, it's only around EUR 30/month so I'm sure it can be had cheaper.

I find that we get a much, much smaller percentage of noshows when people have provided a credit card number. That person making multiple bookings would find it a very expensive trip indeed if we all took CC numbers upfront. We find that we rarely bill people as no-shows these days (I think only one this Summer so far) but pre getting the CC machine and taking CC numbers at the time of booking, we'd have notionally been billing at least one a week. So, the EUR 30 is covered very quickly.

RR: I so much agree. The problem is that we're essentially in a transitional period between the "good old days" when B&B (and, no Chris it ISN'T Chambre d'Hote: this is an english language forum and you won't find Chambre d'Hote in your english dictionary, says he being equally pedantic) was very much a sideline for the farmer's wife to keep things ticking over after the war... and the more professionally run B&Bs today. That's not to say that the "farmer's wife" end of the market has gone away but they have really upped their game as you'll see if you try buying one such place from a French person these days. Sure there are B&Bs without ensuite rooms but most of those have been around for donkeys.

I suspect that the only thing that will probably survive said transition will be Gites de France but that's going to have to change substantially too. After all I remember one person on this forum applying only to be told that she could only get a grade 3 because one room was a tiny bit too small and that she HAD to reduce her prices from EUR 60-ish to EUR 40-ish. This despite her doing quite nicely bookings-wise withour GdF.

 

Arnold

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="Russethouse"]Reading this thread I do wonder how many people thought that being hospitable to Joe Public was an easier option than it has turned out to be........[/quote]Never mind hospitable, simply dealing with Joe Public in any sphere of commerce has always been a trial !

Perhaps I should start a new thread entitled:

Don't you just hate Joe Public (with apologies to any Joe Public's here)..............[6][6][6]

[Paul Bradford]

To a degree, I'm in agreement with Anton. Unless you have very good terms and conditions explaining what you will and won't provide and what you expect from customers, then on occasion you will have to put up with the bad as well as the good. I recall the first time my wife and I came to France, 1992 I believe, totally misjudging how long it would take to travel to the south west. We had wanted to see the country, rather than the motorways. About three in the afternoon, having looked at the map, we realised that we weren't going to make our 7pm ETA for our B&B (English owned by the way). We had ordered an evening meal. Despite stopping in every village, we couldn't find a telephone box that would take coins, not realising that we needed a phone card. (No mobile 'phone then!) Eventually we found a coin operated 'phone and were able to warn our hosts, firstly that we were still coming and secondly that we would be terribly late. We arrived at 11pm, very embarassed. Our host were welcoming and still had our meal warm, which was most welcome. Our fault entirely. Our hosts won recommendations from us.

On another occasion, friends travelling with us had a breakdown in their car, forcing them to stay overnight and have it repaired the following day. We telephoned on to say that unfortunately the other family would not be able to make it. Since then, on journeys through France, I have been unavoidably delayed by problems with ferries, the Eurotunnel, traffic incidents and sometimes the weather. If it states in your terms and conditions that I would not be granted entry after a particular time, fair enough. However, a lot of these incidents are beyond our control. You  must decide what type of business it is that you want to run and what level of service you wish to provide. If it is made clear, then you should have few problems. If not, be prepared to take the rough with the smooth. I'm sure that most of your customers are perfectly reasonable. Perhaps you could consider keycode entry if persons are expected late, with directions left for their room and a request to respect the fact that others are asleep. In an ideal world we would all conform to your required working hours, but in the end you are a service providor and charge accordingly.

Paul

[LEO]

[quote user="wen"]

jc, we have travelled all over France, the UK and Spain. Not all establishments would allow this. You either take the room or sod off.

The thing is, our rooms are exactly as advertised. Some with extra features even since they booked.

In our case, they are time-wasters.

 

I am not English, have travelled all over France,UK ,and Spain and I always ask to see the room . I  think that most people would do the same

I want to see what I am buying!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

[suein56]

 Leo wrote: (I) have travelled all over France, UK ,and Spain and I always ask to see the room . I  think that most people would do the same

I agree with Leo. The one and only time we did not ask to see the room we were sent up this dreadful room with dingy, dirty decor, a view of a wall, dismal, depressing bedding and a dining-type chair with a wonky leg. I immediately said the room was unacceptable; what was the alternative? We were then shown to a delightful room, which we we were happy to stay in.

Since then we have always asked to view the room first. Once bitten twice shy, comes to mind.

Sue

[Cassis]

I wonder why on earth they offered you a crap room in the first place?  That's really weird marketing.

I'm just trying to imagine what anyone would do if they came here and decided for some reason that they did not like the room they had booked (although it's never happened and why it should I can't imagine, as the overwheming majority of our customers have seen the room they have booked on the website). 

I suppose we could offer them to doss down in the barn. [:D]

[Lesbatees]

[quote user="mascamps.com"]

MM: Why not get a credit card machine and avoid the problems? Even via CA, it's only around EUR 30/month so I'm sure it can be had cheaper.

I find that we get a much, much smaller percentage of noshows when people have provided a credit card number. That person making multiple bookings would find it a very expensive trip indeed if we all took CC numbers upfront. We find that we rarely bill people as no-shows these days (I think only one this Summer so far) but pre getting the CC machine and taking CC numbers at the time of booking, we'd have notionally been billing at least one a week. So, the EUR 30 is covered very quickly.

[/quote]

I agree with you in principle, Arnold.  Unfortunately, 360 euros per annum before transaction costs is a lot to pay out for a facility we'd not be using that often.  We use Paypal for late bookers, and find it works OK - so far this year we've not had any "no-shows".  The ones that didn't show up in the past were the ones we couldn't get a deposit from as it was too late.

V.

 

[Russethouse]

[quote user="spg"]

 Leo wrote: (I) have travelled all over France, UK ,and Spain and I always ask to see the room . I  think that most people would do the same

I agree with Leo. The one and only time we did not ask to see the room we were sent up this dreadful room with dingy, dirty decor, a view of a wall, dismal, depressing bedding and a dining-type chair with a wonky leg. I immediately said the room was unacceptable; what was the alternative? We were then shown to a delightful room, which we we were happy to stay in.

Since then we have always asked to view the room first. Once bitten twice shy, comes to mind.

Sue

[/quote]

I'm pretty sure that I have read in articles and books that in France it is expected that you view the room before 'accepting' it, though what you do if its late at night and the establishment is full I have no idea.

 

[suein56]

[quote user="Cassis"]I wonder why on earth they offered you a crap room in the first place?  That's really weird marketing.

[/quote]

I really have no idea; but the first room stunned us with its awfulness. Perhaps the proprietors hoped we would accept it without question as we were already 'hooked' by having booked; thereby leaving the decent room still available for people who turned up on spec wanting a room.

As you say, weird marketing.

Sue

[Cassis]

Actually, could be a clever ploy - first show the punter the pigsty, then they'll be delighted to sleep in the byre.  I'll just make a note of that one ...

[Cerise]

The whole of this thread is making me chuckle.  Most of us try to be nice to our customers and most of the customers are nice right back.  I have cheerfully sat up until 1.00 am to let someone in when they asked nicely, explained the reason why and were basically nice people.  I've also provided a meal at 11.00 pm for someone who was unavaoidably delayed and had had an appalling journey.  We don't want to be miserable gits, but we are providing B & B at 50 euros or so a night in our own homes where, strangely, we have our own lives.  If I'd wanted to work in a 24 hour fully staffed hotel I'd have done so.  The occasional ego-maniacs who have come away for a good week's whinging do rather get up my nose, but they are the minority.

Personally I reckon we should make this bit of the forum access for B & B owners only - then we could have A REALLY GOOD MOAN.  What do you reckon?

PS Cassis my dear sausage I love the frock.  If your pigsty is full I have a few vacancies in the hen house.

[Cassis]

Well, stap me vitals!   You mean that the views that other B&B owners have represented here aren't what they think about EVERY guest?  [8-)]

And here was me thinking that everybody who crossed the threshold of every B&B was meant to be treated like a nasty disease.  I'll have to change my "welcome"  policy and put the cattle prod away. Rats - how'm I going to get my fun now? [:(]

Glad you like the dress - it's part of my my "summer" collection, slashed to the waist for easy access.  That's between us owners, right?  Don't want Johnny Public getting on to what goes on behind the "Private" sign.  Keep it schtum.

[Cerise]

You - me - the cattle prod - the 'Private sign' - don't tell Jude or 'im indoors.  And that dress!!!  Not sure about the rats though - are we obliged to have them in B & B?

[Cassis]

Flip me - yer on!  Don't worry, I'll leave the rats in the guest rooms as per usual.  You're not having me dress, though. [:D]

[YCCMB]

I would imagine, you two, that with a bit of careful marketing, what you're proposing could very well be the sort of thing people would be prepared to pay a supplement for............[:D]  Not me, you understand, but some people!![:$]

[Cerise]

Good idea Betty - we'll get working on our brochure!  Will send you a copy - purely for reference you understand[;-)]

[YCCMB]

I'll send you my PO Box number and a selection of pseudonyms.[:D]

[Cassis]

Cherry Lips - I've got an idea.  It's a blinder.

How about getting Betty on board with us - she's got a certain appeal, you have to admit - and instead of doing Bed & Breakfast, our new line could be Bondage & Betty.  We don't even have to change the signs.  I've got a feeling it wouldn't take much to get Betty on board.  Do you think rubber accessories could have an appeal for certain "clientèle"?  I've got this vision of Betty in a headscarf and wetsuit zipped open to the waist.

[mascamps.com]

Welllll, as it happens we, purely by accident, wrote something in the French version of our site (since amended!) that had the effect of us receiving a number of "just for the afternoon" bookings for a while.

Going by the arrangement of the pillows in the room afterwards we came to the conclusion (after much consideration!) that they were into some things that can't really be discussed here but, let's say, involved rear entry amongst many other things.

Very profitable too. They came in the off-season but even so we still managed to rebook the same room twice in one day once or twice.

 

Arnold