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Size of bathrooms / gradings


Babbles
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A quick question that I haven't so far found an absolute answer for. For 4 epis my understanding is that a bathroom has to be 5m2 but does it have to have a bath in it or could you put a large shower in (which would feel more spacious and luxurious) I know that staying in a large upmarket hotel in London it had just  shower but I've no idea with a CHD. Any advice on how you guys have fitted out your bathrooms would be welcome.
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For 4 epis this is what we were sent (it is in addition to 3 epis which is addition to 2 which is addition to 1).

Exterior.

Private parking (1 place per room), quality outside area, quality garden set plus loungers (not plastic). There should be leisure equipment available : swimming pool with towels, tennis courts (I thought of the tennis court thread when I read that), other sports and interesting building (I understand the swimming pool and tennis court but don't understand what they mean by "interesting buildings" although I do have a model railway in the garden, would that count?).

Breakfast.

Copious, either in the room or lounge (guests choice) and should include eggs, cooked meats, dairy products, cereals and quality region produce.

Bedroom.

Decorated in a luxurious and refined way. The surface area is at least 18m2 for two people. If the room is to accommodate more than 2 then it must have a living area with TV and Hi-fi equipment. The beds should be a minimum of 160 x 200. Baby equipment must be available.

Bathroom

Should be spacious (no size given) and should have a bath or large shower, single leaver taps and bathrobes (whats a single leaver bathrobe?). It is recommended (but not obligatory) to have a separate bath and a double washbasin.

WC.

Must be separate from the bathroom.

The rooms should be cleaned every day. The room should have plenty of natural light with plenty of ventilation. There must be floor covering and not bare concrete (are they joking?). The mattress must not be on either a metal or horsehair base.

There is a note at the bottom which says "may vary according to the type of accommodation or features specific to the region of France". So if the above is different to what others may that is why.

Not in the documentation but when we were inspected and they explained all this to us we were told we could never attain 4 because our house was built in 1983 and just was not old enough. Having said that looking through the GDF website I see modernish places (same age or newer looking than mine) with a 4 epis rating. Perhaps they were very small houses that have been renovated and have quadrupled in size.

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As always a great reply, but one of the many bits I don't really get with that is the outside space, we're buying a large period house with buckets loads of charme and original features but not a huge garden, no room for a pool,but the beach is 20 mins away, there are tennis couts in walking distance but there public ones, there is also no room to put the WC's seperate we'd rather offer each suite it's own living area.

The other bits we can probably achieve and exceed in some cases. We've stayed in some truely awful 3 star/ epis and it doesn't really seem fair that is all we could achieve if we used the above criteria

We could really do with being graded by an organisation that would deal with townhouses that have restricted outside space, any ideas?

Like yourselves we are going to advertise that it isn't really suitable for children under 14 so do you still have to offer baby stuff?

Thanks yet again for steering us in the right direction[:)]

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I understand where you are coming from but there are some extremely good 3 epis places as well. Some, in my opinion, should be a 4 because they are way in front of others I have seen. Although there are basic rules a lot is open to the interpretation of the inspectors.

I did a search on the GDF website for all the 4 epis CDH's in our department and there are 7. Out of those 4 have pools, 1 has a pool and a tennis court and 2 have just a tennis court.

I was rather thinking that a 5m2 bathroom is actually quite small being only 2.2m x 2.2m square (or a permutation). I am rather thinking that they may mean 5m2 bigger than the requirement of a 3 epis bathroom. I noted that only 2, 3 and 4 epis have to have en-suite. Its a bit like the bedroom facilities, you need to add them up so a 4 epis would have to have.

For the first epis no more than 4 to a room, main light switch by door, bedside table with light, one chair per person, wardrobe with hangers. Now to get to 2 epis you must add 3 cubic meters of storage space for two people, an extra 1 cubic meter per extra person up to 3 people (so the capacity has now dropped to 3), a work table or desk with light. To get to 3 epis you need to add the following, lined curtains, a breakfast table (I assume the work table from the 2 epis will double up as a breakfast table), extra pillows, an arm chair, suitcase stand or storage for suitcase. Finally to get to 4 epis you must have either a room for 2 people or you can accommodate up to 4 providing you have a suite of two rooms with a maximum of two people per room, there must be a living area in the room (or rooms if a suite of 2 rooms) and there must be a TV and Hi-fi (sorry I misread that before). There are things that they would like you to have on top of these items but they are not compulsory.

Funny enough we have an armchair in each room, a desk in the hall with a computer and writing equipment. We don't have tables and chairs in the rooms but we do have a mobile table with four chairs which all folds up in to one unit and is on wheels and can be pushed in to a room for breakfast. In truth we have never been asked for breakfast in the room so it has never been used. This did not effect our grading of 3.

My personal thoughts are that you stand a far better chance if you are inspected by somebody be it GDF, Clevacances or Thomas Cook (known as B&B France) because they set a standard, bit like McDonald's you should know what you are going to get (the French in particular like this). Some people consider being a member of GDF as having some sort of snob value (for some totally strange reason, bit like those in the AS book) which I disagree with. What I look for is having an inspection by some reputable group/company and then what they can do for me.

Thomas Cook put you in several books world wide, they are their own books and labeled Thomas Cook. GDF on the other hand sell their list to companies like the AA in the UK (just one example I think 4 or 5 compaines use their lists). Most tourist offices, be they local or departmental, will have brochures with both GDF and Clevacances gites and CDH's in them. You have to look at it purely from a business point of view, how much will it cost and what do I get out of it. In the past there were restrictive practices in France, GDF was the worst culprit but that has changed now so you can be with one or more of these organisations if you wish.

As I have said in the past it is imperative to know the source of your bookings, how people have found you. If you are paying money to somebody and you don't get any bookings don't use them again and that includes the 3 I have mentioned. This year we have dropped Thomas Cook because their fees are big and when I worked it out the bookings we had have only paid for the membership fee plus an extra couple of days and thats based on the last two years figures. I am not a charity and I refuse to spend my hard earned money on companies that do not perform.

All I think you can do is your best and then get inspected. If you don't make the 4 epis then, sadly, thats life. Remember this, you at least will have been inspected by a highly respected institution which is more than many have ever done and thus you do meet some form of proven standard. It is also a selling point because if people are unhappy with the level of accommodation or service offered they at least have a way to make an official complaint. If you stay somewhere that has not been inspected and is not a member of one of these institutions and you are not happy then its tuff luck and on your bike because who can you complain to. GDF and Clevacances do definitely follow up any complaints.

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Interesting, they must have some kind of leeway when making the grading, I totally agree with the 3 epis rates they seem to vary hugely which I suppose why everyone trys to strive for the next level. We do want to be listed in guide that does have some kind of gradings (as you say I think the French find these very important).  I had thought about Chez Nous (we'll have an appartment gite as well) but were really put of using them by a dreadful one I stayed in near Bezier, and I wonder how many other people would be put of using them if they had a similar experience as they don't grade the properties even though we have stayed at some lovely places booked through them.

One guide I do like the look of is as its printed in both English and French,(link below) do you have any experience of this and if its any good? The CDH seem to be of the calibre (and  price) we want to achieve but they don't have a rating as such, also (I know I'm putting my head above the parapet) have used the AS ones in the past, and speaking to owners where we have stayed that are included they do seem to rate it, but the cost might put us off a little bit. Funny you mention the Thomas Cook guide, I'm not really a fan  of it, it offers good basic CDH but doesn't have a focus on more up market CDH so we but that one on the back burner to see how we'll get on witht the others

http://www.michelin.co.uk/travel/char.htm

http://www.michelin-boutique.com/guides-cartes/guides-dhebergements-restauration/france/chambres-d39hotes-guide-michelin-p-332.html?osCsid=598e0b3ca86473cb0f842b1f6e8d9e03

I think with the size of the bathroom its the smallest you can get a full bathroom suite in 9feet x 5feet roughly , which is about all we can fit in in 3 of the suites, the others will be bigger The room sizes are what they are and as its a period property there is only so much you can do, you just have to do your best.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
The 4 Epis grade is largely dependent on room size, which has to be 18m² for a double room (rather than 12m² up to 3 Epis) excluding bathroom, plus the room needs 2 armchairs (most 3 Epis have armchairs if room allows anyway).  3 Epis bathroom 4m² and 4 Epis 5m².  Otherwise there's bog all difference between a good 3 and a good 4 Epis. 

Having a guest sitting room, lovely surroundings, stunning garden, lake, character house, fantastic decor,  etc. (like ours [:P] ) will do nothing to help you from 3 up to 4 Epis unless all your bedrooms are of the requisite size.  Never mind the quality, feel the width is the main priority.

If anyone wants the definitive grids, classifications etc. then they CAN be found online but are not publicised by GdF and are only there due to maverick departmental offices doing their own thing. 

If anyone can't find them through Google, and you want a copy, ask me by email and I'll send hard copies of the latest 2008 versions in pdf format. I've got Gites and B&B regs for both GdF and Clévacances.

I've saved the online copies that I found in case the offices concerned get smacked down for divulging such highly sensitive information to enemy agents ... [Www]. 

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Yes please Cassis, could you email me them, the actual room size isn't an issue for us, most will be suites or junior suites to use Hotel speak[;-)] but as we have to create new bathrooms we don't want to make them too small so it sounds like 5m2 is the way to go but do they have to have a bath or would a large double shower do? I'm getting very confused by the differences between different tourist offices as you say some are a bit maverick changing whats served for breakfast isn't such a big deal but moving walls is[:P]

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  • 5 weeks later...
[quote user="Quillan"]

For 4 epis this is what we were sent (it is in addition to 3 epis which is addition to 2 which is addition to 1).

Bathroom

Should be spacious (no size given) and should have a bath or large shower, single leaver taps and bathrobes (whats a single leaver bathrobe?). It is recommended (but not obligatory) to have a separate bath and a double washbasin.

WC.

Must be separate from the bathroom.

[/quote]

I am surprised to see that they require a separate WC, find this disgusting unless it has a washbasin. Even so, I much prefer having the loo in the bathroom. Our plumber and a few other artisans have told me that this is what they are seeing in the new builds for the French in our area.

We are in the process of changing this now. [:)]

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Hi Cassis,

"If anyone can't find them through Google, and you want a copy, ask me by email and I'll send hard copies of the latest 2008 versions in pdf format. I've got Gites and B&B regs for both GdF and Clévacances. "

Have sent you a PM.

Myriam


 

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[quote user="WJT"][quote user="Quillan"]

For 4 epis this is what we were sent (it is in addition to 3 epis which is addition to 2 which is addition to 1).

Bathroom

Should be spacious (no size given) and should have a bath or large shower, single leaver taps and bathrobes (whats a single leaver bathrobe?). It is recommended (but not obligatory) to have a separate bath and a double washbasin.

WC.

Must be separate from the bathroom.

[/quote]

I am surprised to see that they require a separate WC, find this disgusting unless it has a washbasin. Even so, I much prefer having the loo in the bathroom. Our plumber and a few other artisans have told me that this is what they are seeing in the new builds for the French in our area.

We are in the process of changing this now. [:)]

[/quote]

The GdF grid says separate loo is a recommendation for places wanting 3 or 4 épis, it is not a requirement for them:

[quote]

WC:

Soit particulier et séparé de salle d'eau/salle de bains,

communiquant, avec ventilation (VMC)

Recommandé en 3 et 4 épis[/quote]

and gets 3 points towards overall classification.

But WC integral to the bathroom or shower room is also acceptable for all grades:

[quote]

soit particulier et situé dans la salle d’eau/salle de bains,

avec ventilation (VMC)

[/quote]

and gets you 2 points.  Whereas

[quote]

soit commun aux hôtes (VMC) et indépendant de la salle

d'eau/salle de bains, 1 WC pour 6 personnes

[/quote]

shared toilet is okay for 1 or  2 épis but get you only one point.

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It's a French thing.  It used to be a no-no to have the bog in the bathroom.  Maybe something to do with the old Turkish toilets or the days when toilets were always outside, away from the living areas. 

But minds are gradually broadening and so for the younger generation the idea of a toilet in a bathroom no longer fills them with horror ...

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