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Beginning from scratch


fanny75
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Hello,

I very much want to start up a chambre (or better still a table) d'hote and I am having a little trouble trawling through all the information to work out exactly what is required.  I have just spent the afternoon reading many posts on the forum, and there is plenty of advice, but as I have been reading through all the different subjects & topics, I am getting a little confused.  I went to the Mairie this morning to ask them what I had to do and they told me to contact the CCI, and didn't mention anything about declaring my intentions with them.  Any help and/or advice would be very welcome. 

Many thanks

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Thank you, I shall order it now - I've seen other posters have mentioned it.

I think I'm at the stage where I'd like to formally register as a table d'hote - I have everything ready to go, including interested potential guests, I just want to make sure that I am doing it all above board.

I am going to start with the local CCI and go from there, but any tips would be gratefully received.

Thanks

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Always worth remembering that if you only want to trade for a 6 month summer period you can register on April 1st and deregister on Sept 30th. The local CdC did all the paperwork for us for 54e.That is contacting Urssaf etc etc. when we started and stopped. This considerably cuts down your outgoing expenses. We did this for 6 years with no problems at all and at the end of each year received rebates from most depts. This point was pointed out to us by Micky,an ex-member but was not mentioned at the CdC or by the Maire.
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Something of importance to know is that as from this year, newly registered chambres d'hotes owners who wish to offer table d'hotes must attend a hygiene & food safety course - approximate cost 800-900euros.....you may find this cost prohibitive.   I had a long discussion late last year with a newly registered French run B&B in Provence - she is charging top whack for her beautiful rooms & had a successful 1st year, but despite that she had worked out it would take her almost 10 yrs to re-coup the cost of the course...  Those of us already registered only need the alcohol licence, so long as you were already offering t d'h before the cut off date...  Don't forget you will need a basic licence for breakfast - easy to get & free.  Good idea to contact your local GdF & maybe attend one of their seminars where they will give you all the information before you make the decision.  Good luck, its very hard work, but worth it - we are in our 7th year & though very tired by the end of each season it is great to welcome people back year after year - you will make lots of friends.  The work continues through the year but at a different pace - we are currently immersed in the annual decoration project.......
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I'd heard something similar from a friend who has to attend a course for running a bar, even though they've been running (a very successful) one for 6 years, just because they're applying for a new licence.  And he's not a fantastic French speaker, so he'll have a fun 3 days!  I did want to do an evening meal purely to make the stay more homely & friendly - and to get to know my guests, but I'm not sure its worth €900.  Thanks for the information.

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You can offer a more luxurious breakfast, which from our experience is what is bringing us our regular clientele - a way of getting around the rules, being different from the norm, still doing some cooking & charging a bit more....... you will find that there are still ample opportunities to get to know your guests especially if you offer a reason for them to stay on site through the day & don't restrict them to leaving the premises between 10.30 & 4.30 as some B&B owners are known to do..some days it is hard to get away from the guests without doing evening meals as well....  Picnic areas & a coin cuisine are currently very favourable, especially with French guests, as it means they can shop at the traiteur, bring food with them from home, or enjoy a bottle of wine with some bread & cheese in the garden/on terrace either lunchtime or evening.  Great for families too as it is an easy way of making it more homely & friendly, doesn't involve too much work & which will keep them coming back.  Leaving the occasional afternoon cake in the coin cuisine always goes down well as that little extra touch.
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Betoulle Something of importance to know is that as from this year, newly registered chambres d'hotes owners who wish to offer table d'hotes must attend a hygiene & food safety course - approximate cost 800-900euros.....you may find this cost prohibitive. I had a long discussion late last year with a newly registered French run B&B in Provence - she is charging top whack for her beautiful rooms & had a successful 1st year, but despite that she had worked out it would take her almost 10 yrs to re-coup the cost of the course..

In which case not much point in cooking then.
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I suppose I thought about the evening meal as we'd be eating ourselves, and it would make sense.  I used to run chalets in ski resorts too, and the evening's were always great fun with everyone sitting down and talking about their day.  I agree with the cake, I think that's a really lovely touch, as long as I remember not to eat the leftovers!  I didn't know that some B&B's asked the guests to leave during the day - that sounds like some of the hostels I've stayed in, not B&B's.  Interesting to know though, so thank you again.

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Certainly GdF would not accept a UK certificate, but might be worth a try - maybe someone on here as experience of that??  The course is only required if providing evening meals, does not apply to home baking or any fruit compotes for breakfast......according to my GdF inspector anyway.....  doing bacon & eggs etc is frowned on by GdF in our region, so they would insist on the course under those circumstances.... providing ham etc as part of a breakfast buffet does not need certification....but still need the tea/coffee/juice licence from the Customs office.  If going with GdF they would suggest you do their basic food hygiene course at minimum cost.  Clevacances probably the same - anyone know if that is the case???
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Reading through the replies, I wonder how many rooms you have and how you expect to get guests, by advertising,G.D.F. or the B&B agency, and if the initial outlay for these agencies less the commission they charge added to your cotisations will see you making any profit. We are lucky enough to be on a tourist route from St.Malo to St.Suliac. St.Suliac being a "Village of Charm" plus close to the Rance and many beaches etc.etc. We did have to register with the C.d.C. as we are close to several hotels and they don't like people not paying their dues. We did enquire about joining the various agencies but apart from cost,the delay before you are added to any advertising can be a year. We decided just to put a B&B/Chambre D'Hote sign outside our gate and see how we got on.Slowly but steady up till June , then July and August we were turning cars away every day. Virtually Complet for the main 7 weeks busy period. We also charge 10 euros more per room than the 3 hotels near-by!!!. No problems with any of the powers that be,they were all very helpful.The local Tourist office would not offer our rooms as we weren't graded by G.D.F. The local Mairie did add us to their site and also published an article and photo's in the Commune Mag. This resulted in many locals booking in relatives/freinds when they were having a bash. We did quite well out of it for 6 years but following 2 family bereavements and the onset of retirement age decided to close the B&B. WE still get many repeat enquiries which we pass on to others in the locality.This may be an easier route for you to go down and then you can see whether the idea is profitable or not. While I think of it the Tax was fairly painless as you are allowed somethinh like 72% before tax without any receipts. The Staff at the Hotel des Impots were always very helpful and efficient,unlike dealing with HMRC in UK.
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I was wondering about whether a UK gained Food & Hygiene certificate would be enough, but that is based on the assumption that we all use the same EU regs.  As for registering with agencies etc, I wasn't intending to, as I don't think I am offering a 'traditional' B&B.  I was going for a specific market - mainly surfers really, and looking at the GdF site, I don't really think I'd fit in.  I really just want to make sure that I'm a legal business and above board tax wise.  It probably doesn't help that my French isn't really up to in depth discussions, which is why I'd like to know as much as I can before leaping in with my terrible grammar and vocab at the CCI!  Thank you for all the input and advice so far - it is really helping.

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You sound not to different from me when I started. I had read a lot (be warned that regulations change and the book I had then about B&B's in France was out of date and therefore wrong). I spoke to people, read this forum, asked questions and ended up with so much information I was totally confused. I didn't speak hardly any French at the time which was another major drawback.

In the end I employed a translator for the day and visited the CCI, tax office and Duane. By asking the right questions, like "do I have to pay all these cotistations up front" (CCI) I discovered the answer was NO, there are ways around this. To cut a long story very short I guess I saved about 4,000 Euros and it cost me about 120 Euros all in (we bought the translator lunch as well). So my tip is find a translator, find out the dates and times these people are open and go and visit. Prepare your questions before hand based on what you have read. Don't forget these people don't give advice so you can't ask "what do you think", ask questions that result in a yes or no answer.

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[quote user="betoulle"]Something of importance to know is that as from this year, newly registered chambres d'hotes owners who wish to offer table d'hotes must attend a hygiene & food safety course - approximate cost 800-900euros...[/quote]

I've heard this too but have yet to hear who tells you that you "must attend this course". Douanes on applying for the licence? Mairie? Chambre de Metiers?

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Following post copied from another discussion.........all my information is via GdF, but looks like the Douanes issue the licence subject to completing the course & Veterinary Service are involved.  We already have dealings with the Service Veterinaire as we have bees.....

 

'I've just had a chat with the Maire and a lady from the Tourist Office who advised that all we need to do is make a declaration to the Maire that we are operating as a Table d'Hote/ Chambre d'Hote, then trot down to the Douanes in Clermont Ferrand to apply for a license so serve food and wine, which is free. [/i]

They are wrong! The licenses you need are a Licence 1 to serve non alcoholic drinks with breakfast, plus a licence 'grand restauration' to serve drinks/aperitifs with meals. This is free from the Douane but not valid unless you have done the obligatory three day training course provided by UMIH. (www.umihformation.fr)

This costs 850 Euros! I've just done it & some of the cost was paid by the Clermont Tourist Office.

The course covers lots of things that are irrelevant to Chambres D'Hôtes but also makes you realise your responsibilities. The certificate is valid for ten years and can then be renewed by attending a one day course.

You also need to notify the 'Service Veterinaire' and attend a basic hygiene course.

The Mairies don't seem to be up to speed with this yet. There was a girl on the course I did who had leased her bar/hotel from the Commune who guided her through the process of opening the bar. During the course the trainer realised that she had been very badly advised & took her to the Douane who confirmed this & immediately closed her down for several weeks. Without the trainer, who knows the Douane Officers, she could also have been facing a large fine.

There is also a 'petit restauration' licence, that limits you to serving wine & beer. You still have to do the course & they suggested that this was too much of a minefield because it doesn't include all wines & most aperitifs are excluded. You need the licence 1 for breakfast because it doesn't count as a meal! '


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That's interesting. The only "confirmed" required attendance I've heard of was also from the Auvergne - Clermont Ferrand... so I wonder if that region is implementing the regulation and some - as yet - are not. Basse Normandie doesn't seem to have heard of this requirement.

Thanks for the information, Betoulle. [:)]

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I do like how there is so much difference between the regions with regards to regulations.  I have just been told by a translator who called the CCI for me that to be a table d'hote I would need to do a 2 day training course for hygiene and prevention of alcohol risks.  She also was told that I would a petite licence restaurant to serve wines beers and ciders. But if I was to only do breakfast I didn't need a licence at all (she was told this was new in 2009).  There was no mention of the vets.  There was however mention of all foreign guests, icluding EU ones, filling out a police form.  This is news to me, especially as I know no-one else here does anything like that.  Please keep providing advice and tips though, it is all very welcome.

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Have heard about the police form requirement, but not enforced in our region...occasionally the gendarmes come by to check we have not seen any Basque separatists....& GdF keep us informed of any fraudsters, escaped convicts, kidnapped children etc in the area. Have never been issued with any police forms or had any info from GdF.  However, we do keep a record of addresses for the invoices to keep accountants happy (think that is just ours...since we had a big tax inspection a couple of years ago, but thats another story) & so I can send guests a Xmas newletter each year.  Good idea to have a note of mobile numbers &/ email addresses for lost property....this year had house keys, passports, clothes, toys etc left behind - in the case of the keys & passports just as well I had the mobile numbers....  The service veterinaire covers not just the obvious veterinary regs, but anything really to do with food & safety in all its forms - bit like the Public Health dept.
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we're going to a GdF meeting next week, will let you know what happens .Last year the main outrage amongst the french owners was having to advertise prices outside the property. We went to the douanes when the Grand licence was first announced and they knew nothing about it,but they gave it to us anyway. We have been doing Td'h since opening in '04 so are hoping we can continue without probs or expense.Watch this space........
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My very helpful translator has been in contact with the local customs and was told that in order for me to offer a table d'hote I would need to attend a 3 day course, which costs about €850, and only then would I be able to get the petite licence restaurant!  Its enough to make me consider just offering breakfast and no dinner!  I shall look in to it further though, it'll be a real test for my french!

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Can you re-type it, there has been a problem with the forum software (for all the forums), nothing to do with anythng you wrote which was very interesting by the way. For more details on the forum problem have a look in the Tech Support part of the forum.

PS. Nothing from either GDF or Clevacances down in Aude yet but I am sure its coming. Quite frankly I think its a good idea. I am sure everybody here does and excellent job but judging by what some of my guests (of all nationality) have said about other B&B's up own the country it seems some owners have been getting away with blue murder.

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