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B&B -thinking about it??


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I am thinking about setting up a B&B for the summer only. I've read all the threads and I'm now a bit concerned as to whether it would be a viable proposition for me.

We have three rooms with one toilet/shower room. They are in the attic and separate from our bedroom and bathroom. Would it be acceptable to let them out to different people, in that they would have to share the facilities?
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Hi,

As far as I am aware JeanS, if you let out rooms for B&B each room you let has to have either on-suite facilities or access to it's own allocated bathroom/toilet.

It would mean that you would only be able to let out one of your rooms at a time with access to the one bathroom/toilet that you have.

I'm sure if the rules are different then you will get other replies from forum members.

Otherwise............good luck with your plans I hope they come to fruition for you.

Best wishes Mel.
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Just to add that what Mel said is correct however I have a suggestion. If you were to rent to families, providing you don't mind their kids running riot, then you could have the kids in one or even two rooms, the parents in the other and they all use the same bathroom which would be OK BUT you must say its family accommodation. If you only have one couple you can't have another come to stay (because of the bathroom) so going down the 'family' route may be your best option.

Alternatively can you nick a bit of space from the other two bedrooms and put two show and toilets in then you would have there rooms with private bathrooms?

Another alternative might be, if you don't mind them passing through your part of the house to get in and out, is to convert one room to a small kitchen, dinning and sitting area and rent it out as self catering.

Just a thought, good luck.

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Where does this idea that each room has to have an allocated bathroom come from? As far as I understand, and I have read around this subject reasonably carefully, each room must

'disposer d’un accès à un WC

et à une salle d'eau, répondre à toutes les réglementions en vigueur

dans les domaines de l’hygiène, de la sécurité et de la salubrité.'

I have been doing small scale chambres d'hôtes for several years now, using two bedrooms and a bathroom on the second floor of my village house. The facility is registered and there has never been any problems, neither from the authorities or from the guests.

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I don't have the time to 'hunt it down' but you may find the legifrance website will have it. If memory serves its about three or four years since the law came in. I seem to remember it was before the compulsory registration with the Mayor. You can contact either Gite de France or Clevacance who should be able to give you the information. We have always had en-suite so it's not a problem.

Just because nobody has said anything does not make it legal. I know of one CDH with a pool and no security, nobody seems bothered even when the owners were reported, just the old French shoulder shrug accompanied with the 'not my problem' comment. Think of all the English plated illegal cars which display French insurance and CT, nobody cares so what the hell just carry on.

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Thanks for all your responses.I had thought about making the rooms more like a selfcatering apartment - it could be done quite easily and cheaply but the OH doesn't want to. I'm off to the Mairie on Monday to start the process. I'm having some leaflets printed to leave in the local tourist offices, then it will be ' wait & see'.

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I have had another search round on the legal info sites and I can only find reference in the law in the form referred to in my previous post - nothing that says each bedroom must have it's own bathroom, only that it must have access to a toilet and bathroom.

Is it possible that to be registered with some organisations the rules are stricter than the law requires?

I am not someone who is inclined to be on the wrong side of the law - quite the reverse in fact - so this little thread has rather worried me.

And of course to the original poster the correct answer to the question could make a big difference - so being able to back up statements in this situation seems very important.

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Hello again,

Been trying to get some clarification on the above issues.

As far as I can see in the translation from the French Chambres D'Hotes regulations.

It reads that EACH bedroom must have access to a bathrom and toilet. (Art. D. 324-14)

I hope this makes some sense of what is a confusing issue.

Article 1

"Art. D. 324-13. -- The chambre d'hôte activity mentioned in Article L. 324-3 is the supply of the accommodation for the night and breakfast. It is limited to a maximum of five rooms for a maximum capacity home fifteen people. The hospitality is provided by the owner.

"Art. D. 324-14. -- Each guest room must offer access to a bathroom and toilet. It must conform with current regulations in force in the fields of hygiene, safety and sanitation.

"At the very least, the accommodation must include supply of household linen.

"Art. D. 324-15. -- The declaration of the chambre d'hôte activity for one or more guest rooms under Article L. 324-4 is addressed to the maire of the town of residence and can be made by electronic mail, by registered post or in person at the mairie and it must be acknowledged by the handing over of a receipt.

"The declaration states the identity of the person making the declaration and specifies the address of the owner of the chambre d'hôte, the number of rooms available for rental, the maximum number of people likely to be accommodated and the rental period or periods .

"Any change concerning the information included in the declaration must be the subject of a new declaration at the mairie.

"The maire will provide statistical data concerning the declarations to the préfet of the region, the president of the conseil régional and president of the conseil général every year "The list of chambres d'hôtes houses is available for consultation at the mairie. "

Article 2

On publication of this decree, the persons offering one or more chambre d'hôte have until 31 December 2007 to register their activity, in accordance with article L. 324-4 of the Code du tourisme, under the conditions laid down by Article D. 324-15 of the same code.

Furthermore, the accommodation offered must conform with the provisions of Articles D. 324-13 and D. 324-14 of the same code by the same date.

Best wishes Mel.
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Thanks for that, but it is exactly what I have read - previously and as a result of this post.

I have alway understood it to mean that there must be a access to a bathroom and toilet. What is not explicit in the text is that this must be a bathroom and toilet for the exclusive use of just that bedroom. It does not even state that the said bathroom cannot be the same bathroom that is used by the family.

I have presumed that the law is to stop people from trying to let out rooms which have inadequate or no access to facilities, rather than trying to insist that all rooms must effectively be en-suite. After all, the idea of chambres d'hôtes is to allow people to stay in the real homes of real people and be part of the life of the household.

As with many things, it seems that the letter of the law is open to interpretation - and the spirit of it is that clean and hygienic facilities must be made available to every guest.

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[quote user="crossy67"]So how do the likes of F1 hotels with their shared facilities manage then?  Is it different for hotels?
[/quote]

I don't know except they are classed as hotels and hotel laws are quite different. How they 'get away' with shared bathrooms I do not know but it's one reason I would not stay in one (F1 Hotel I mean, not a bathroom [;-)] )

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my colleague (ex president of GdF for the region) in the village has a 3 bedroomed 4 epi chambres d'hotes.  Out of interest her 2 king size rooms share a bathroom & WC, so she only makes them available to couples/family travelling together (allegedly...)  She is at the top of the market listed with Michelin, Bienvenue au Chateau, Sawdays etc.  Now it may be because of who she is, I do not know...but when we have our inspections GdF have always been very pleased with our en suite facilities, saying that shared bathrooms are interdit for anything over 2 epis.  With all the regrading things will probably change & more rules will be brought in & of course costs will escalate..
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So as I thought then - for those of us with good quality but simple accomodation, who have no intention of registering with GdF or other such organisations,  a good quality, clean and shared bathroom fulfills the legal requirements.

Hope the original poster is continuing to check this thread.

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Have to admit I agree with Quillan's suggestion bearing in mind they have 3 bedrooms which would be sharing a bathroom/WC might be stretching the rules a little, & personally while I would probably be OK sharing a bathroom with one other couple, the potential of sharing a bathroom between 3 couples, possibly with children as well would put me off staying.  The queue in the morning could be a nightmare.  I would turn the rooms into a 2 bedroom apartment with the 3rd room being a kitchen/diner/living space.  It would give some flexibility as B&B would still be an option off season as many guests particularly in the cooler months like a private sitting area with some cooking facilities.   Breakfast could be served there - I have stayed in just such a place in Provence & it was proving to be a very good money earner for the owner.
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It depends what you want and what you are paying for it. We charge a rate which reflects the simplicity of the accomodation (22 € per person per night breakfast included) and it is very clear on our website what the arrangements are.  We only do B&B as a small extra income as I also have a full time job outside the home. We have more customers than we feel we can really cope with, and often turn people away. We also have plenty people who return for another visit. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for and what your budget is and variety in the market place is always a good thing.

I do like the idea that Betoulle suggests for the OP's accomodation, it sounds a very flexible option with little initial outlay.

Just for the record, I wouldn't dream of sharing a bathroom on holiday either!

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 Last week I stayed at a very nice 3 star hotel for €50, there were two of us - they actually had a separate toilet and bathroom which I tought was a great arrangement - admitidly breakfast was extra, however having organised meetings for 100+ I know just how many people are very happy to go without.....

Horses for courses I guess....

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[quote user="cornfield"]Just for the record, I wouldn't dream of sharing a bathroom on holiday either!

[/quote]Nor would I. But plenty of people would if the price reflected the share. I know of several French-run chambres d'hôtes locally with shared "facilities" and they get plenty of French customers because the price is right. About 40 euros per room incl brekkie - but brekkie is rather sparse and in one the welcome is close to non-existent as Madam is rather shy and prefers not to see her guests after they've arrived. Breakfast is set up in an area adjacent to the bedrooms and everything is left ready for people to help themselves (from a fridge, etc) when they want it.

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I am reading all your comments, thank you and feel like quitting before I start. Initally the idea to start B&B was to give me something to do during the summer. We get visits from friends and family but now that the novelty has worn off,they are very few,and I'm sometimes at a loss of what to do, apart from gardening.We only stay for 3-4 months. Because of where we are - quite remote, my charge will be 30euros per night per room. I would add that the bathroom would be solely for quests as our bedroom/bathroom is on the groundfloor. I think I'll make the final decision next week when I see the marie.
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well if you charge that amount, you will be permanently full & will have no more spare time at all....especially if you get back to back 1 nighters for 3 rooms, you will spend your summer cleaning, washing & ironing, though thankfully with only the 1 toilet to clean...... sorry for appearing cynical, but we have 4 rooms & 2 gites with 9 toilets for guest use between them - spending most of my time working as a glorified cleaner at present, so touched a nerve.... dependent on your area & what else you have on site as to what you charge, but certain nationalities will love it if you charge that much & doubt you would make much profit......... if you followed my previous suggestion & offered 2 rooms + a private sitting room with cooking facilities would have thought you could charge double that rate, with less work involved & possibility of offering self catering if there is a demand, or when you get tired....  Good luck..
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Jean, if you are thinking of starting a b&b because you're bored, I'd say walk away now! If you don't actively need the money, there are simpler ways of staving off the old ennui. [:D]

It's hard work - rooms and all "public" areas have to be immaculate, bedding and towels laundered and beautifully ironed, floors and windows sparkling - it impinges substantially on your freedom both around the house and in what you want to do - if you've got guests arriving at 4pm and you're planning to go and see friends at 5pm, it is irritating to wait for the guests to pitch up at 10pm (no courtesy phone call!) missing out on what you had planned to do.

You have people going through your house who are strangers and some of whom you won't like. Some will be needy and consulting you every 5 minutes. Others may stare disdainfully at you as you cross your garden because as far as they're concerned, they've paid for the space! Hopefully people like that will be few and far between but it's a rare person who likes everyone they meet.

If you are very remote you'll probably need to offer the option of an evening meal and you could find yourself sitting with people you don't particularly warm to, trying to make interesting and dynamic conversation for 2+ hours.

Imo (again!) you have to really like people to run a b&b. But don't assume that having paying guests is like having friends to stay. It isn't. They're there to pay you for a holiday, not to become pals. Yes, genuine friendships can grow out of that first meeting but don't go into it hoping to provide yourself with some company and potential friends.

I would never say "don't do it" but I think there are easier ways to occupy your time in an interesting manner than cleaning loos and making beds. [:P]

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I have to agree with the last two comments, running a B&B is not for the faint hearted and if there is no reason to do it other than 'something to do' then find something else.

People who stay never see what really goes on, the endless cleaning, washing, ironing, running about to get fresh bread in the morning if you live remotely and then, if you decide to do them, evening meals. For me it's up at six, walk the dogs, off to get the bread, serve breakfast, service the rooms (towels, tea stuff and toilet rolls) unless it's a changeover then its a complete strip, push the bed around to clean underneath, trying to get that mould out of the corner of the shower etc, etc then off to get the shopping for the evening meal then collapse for a two hour siesta before prep work for the meal, lay the tables, cook the meal, entertain the guests, clean up, load the two dishwashers and set the tables for breakfast and off to bed around midnight and it will be like that for all four rooms for all of July, August and September all this with temperatures between 35 and 40 deg. The real killer is a four room changeover on the same day with new guests arriving who have booked meals, especially if the departing guests hang around.

One way to explain how hard it is would be that an old friend offered to run the B&B for a week when we went to the UK to bury the wife's mother. He ran a large successful pub back in London and thought it would be an easy break and could spend his time sitting round the pool most of the day. When we returned he could not get out fast enough, he said running the pub was easier and less stressful and that he wouldn't be coming back (he did but not to work).

That aside, we need to do this to keep us in the French health system (roll on when I am 65 and get my S1/E121) and I love meeting the guests, we have some wonderful evenings. I have gone from traveling the world to the world coming to me and get to meet some right characters, even the odd pop star (Marc Almond, been twice) which I truly enjoy.

If I would you I would be looking for something like painting, walking etc.

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Apologies on behalf of myself, Quillan & Catalpa but we have all been doing this for several years & May/June is the time when each year we think 'Oh God, no more free time till October...' at the risk of being a little Pythonesque - Quillan you have it good - a 2 hr siesta??  you're lucky.....  the bottom line is only do it if you are used to working with the public & have experienced the more quirky side of people's behaviour & attitudes to who is generally perceived as being their slave for the duration of their stay with you - it takes all sorts & we have met some great people who return every year & are now our best friends, but every once in a while you will get the guest who takes advantage, treats you badly & who you are glad to see the back of.  In these days of Trip Advisor we always have to be nice, so a relaxed & slightly detached attitude is needed together with a love of people.  I agree it is nothing like having friends to stay, but having said that they do pay, which the friends generally don't, so some positives to having paying guests, but it is no picnic & extremely hard work being 'on call for 24/7' for 5 months a year.....  rant over..... you caught us all at a bad time...back to the 56 pillowcases waiting to be ironed, prep for tomorrows breakfast (we dont offer evening meals, but do offer a more extensive breakfast than necessary probably, but it brings them back every year....) last quick check before next guests arrive (probably late...) etc etc....
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Hi all,

I know that the topic has gone off your original question JeanS, but don't be put off. If you can manage to do it in some shape or form you will reep some kind of rewards from it.......if not too much financially but by getting to meet some fantastic and interesting people.

We have started ours this year and although slow to start off with are getting lots of enquiries and bookings now. (although we would always like more !!!)

I don't care what anyone says it sure beats an hours journey to work in heaving traffic, and constant hassle from employers. Who can moan about avoiding that !! Many people would consider working from May to October a great way of life...........most people have to work all year round !!

I consider that we're in very luxurious position to be able to do this, so keep your chin up and I hope it all goes well for you whatever you decide to do.

Good luck to everyone for a FAB season.

Best wishes Mel.
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