Bunk Beds....and family rooms...

[Louise]

Me again... sorry for the many posts :-)

Just wondered what your thought are on Bunk Beds in a family room ?

I am a bit of a health and safety consious person and think that we might be asking for trouble if someone fell out but my boyfriend thinks they are a good idea because it frees up more floor space.

Whats your thoughts ?

Also does anyone have a family room and how many people does it sleep. Do you find you get enquiries for it very often. We have a fairly big (25sqm) room but dont want to "cram the beds in " if there are not that many enquiries

Louise :-)

[Chrissie]

When I was small, we had beds that folded up into the wall, thus freeing up floor space during the day.  They were quite unwieldy in those days but I would imagine now they are more sophisticated.  Just a thought.

Chrissie (81)

[Quillan]

Technically there are limits on how many sqm a room has and how many people it can accommodate (don't ask what it is because we don't take kids). The size of the room also effects any rating you may have in the future. The thing is you need to decide what market your going to be aiming at and if your going to accept children. We never have but we get a lot of enquires for family rooms but then they are in the school holidays and we are full anyway because some people actually want a child free holiday. A CDH is quite a different proposition from running an 80 bed hotel and before you start ripping things apart (building wise) you really need to sit down and think about your market, how your going to market and what you need to do. Once you have done that then take some outside photo's and get a website up and running in the next month. Why, because it will take a while to get ranked (in the search engines) etc and it will also drive you to get the work finished because hopefully you will have reservations for the rooms you are working on, if you get my drift. We did exactly this but only advertised half our rooms to start with and it worked well. With just two, tastefully decorated rooms you should be able to earn about 8,000 Euros per year (including some evening meals) per room. With evening meals you should be able to make a profit of between 40 and 60 percent depending how much you want to put in to each meal work wise instead of buying things like deserts and growing your own salad and veg. Research is everything in this game.

I know this is something we discussed in your other thread but talking about profit the only negative thing about the BIC tax system is you don't have to keep accounts but it is important to keep a 'day book' because there is a temptation to spend money on this and that for your guests, not cost meals etc and a lot of people do not have a clue of how much it is really costing them to run their CDH.

[Lachouette]

We have 2 rooms with bunks and the bunks are only really used:

1. in the high season when we have loads of families on budgets passing through who all want to be in the same room or
2. when we have groups of bikers staying as they too like to sleep together, so to speak!

Occasionally we get a request from couples travelling with a brother/sister in law, wanting a room for three, so one of them takes the bottom bunk. Jut remember that even with fitted sheets, they're not the easiest bed to make!

Jan

[pachapapa]

I have got rid off all fold up beds, frankly a pain in the rectum.

As an emergency measure I have two single blow up mattresses with sleeping bags attached with a zip.

Almost impossible to fall off or fall out; very practical.

[Louise]

Thanks everyone. It was going to be in the one room that I was thiking of as an option instead of two singles, i.e a double and bunks rather than a double and two singles.

The guidelines for 1 etoile are 12sq m for 2 people plus 3 sqm per extra person (I think thats right anyway) so for 4 people it os 18sqm so with 25sqm we should be ok.

My other thought was a sofa bed so that if the room was used as a double they would just have the soaf but it could be used for extra accommodation. I need to decide really ready for when I declare to the mairie how many people can stay there.

[Louise]

[quote user="Quillan"]

A CDH is quite a different proposition from running an 80 bed hotel and before you start ripping things apart (building wise) you really need to sit down and think about your market, how your going to market and what you need to do. Once you have done that then take some outside photo's and get a website up and running in the next month. Why, because it will take a while to get ranked (in the search engines) etc and it will also drive you to get the work finished because hopefully you will have reservations for the rooms you are working on, if you get my drift. We did exactly this but only advertised half our rooms to start with and it worked well. With just two, tastefully decorated rooms you should be able to earn about 8,000 Euros per year (including some evening meals) per room. With evening meals you should be able to make a profit of between 40 and 60 percent depending how much you want to put in to each meal work wise instead of buying things like deserts and growing your own salad and veg. Research is everything in this game.

I know this is something we discussed in your other thread but talking about profit the only negative thing about the BIC tax system is you don't have to keep accounts but it is important to keep a 'day book' because there is a temptation to spend money on this and that for your guests, not cost meals etc and a lot of people do not have a clue of how much it is really costing them to run their CDH.

[/quote]

When saying about running the nursing home - I meant that I have experience at the business side - customer care, marketing, budgeting etc so have a bit of knowledge in that area.... I know running a B&B is very different in other respects.

I just need to think of a name (as you will see from the other thread) and then I can set up the website. Also need to sort out hosting etc.

We too are planning to open a couple of rooms for next year and then be carrying on with the others while the business gets up and running. We will havethe infrastructure in for the plumbing etc so that all of the messy jobs are done by the time the first guests arrive.

We are quite lucky that the house lends itself to a good set up - 5 beds on first floor - all with either room for ensuite or bathrooms so not much building work to do.

Thanks for your tips though - I am sure I will have many more questions as we go through the various stages.

Louise :-)

[Gardengirl]

What about a double bed (or a king-size, as they seem more popular these days) plus a set of single beds, one of which slides away under the other? We have one of those in a spare room in UK and they are very useful. It would give the opportunity to fit 4 in a room, but give more usable floor space when only 2/3 are in residence.

Whatever you dcide on, very good mattresses and comfortable, regularly chnged pillows are very important. We don't go back anywhere where the mattresses and pillows aren't very good - apart from 1 French hotel, which is very convenient and good in all other ways for our regular trips north and south, and I carry pillows in the car when we stay there!

[Quillan]

What about a king size "Zip and Link" thats what we have in one room. Splits in to two good sized single beds.

[Louise]

[quote user="gardengirl "]

plus a set of single beds, one of which slides away under the other? We have one of those in a spare room in UK and they are very useful. P>[/quote]

Yes I have thought about those as you can get them that look like day beds but have another underneath so when there are only 2 people they can use it as a sofa.

What are the best mattresses to get do you think ? Do you think it is worth bringing them over from the UK ?

[Kitty]

I have recently been researching this and asked more-or-less the same question on the Lay My Hat Forum.

Most replies were that bunk beds are a no-no because they are not popular with guests.  Instead, it was suggested that I bought "two in one" beds - single beds that have an additional single underneath that pulls out.  These beds can be very robust if you buy good quality ones.  By buying this sort of bed, I have created two triple (family) rooms that can be twin rooms when the house is booked by fewer guests.

One problem is that the bed that pulls out cannot have a headboard.  Your website should point out what sort of beds that you are providing and the absence of headboards etc.

[Louise]

I like the idea of those... do you think they will be classed as "acceptable" if you were wanting to register for etoiles etc ? Are they the ones that go side by side when they are up - or those that are totally separate ?

Do you get many enquiries for people wanting more than a double room ? I heard (and apologise it wasnt me) that french guests will all stay in the same room....and will fit as many as they can it. If this is true - do they have more than one child in a bed ?

I was thinking of having a travel cot too that cold be used in any of the rooms - is that an idea or should it be a proper cot ?

 

 

[Quillan]

You would want them to separate, what happens if they have two teenagers, a boy and a girl?

I still think you need to think about your location and the market you are aiming at which also has a lot to do with what your area has to offer. Another thing is do you, or will, you have a pool? If there is nothing for kids to do round your area then they may not go out much if you have a pool. The problem with that is you don't actually earn much from a pool, yes it makes your place more appealing but pools are hard work (cleaning and testing), you need to be around because you have to fence the pool and have a lock and key. The French may picnic round the pool or garden and you can't sell them drinks other than soft drinks, tea, coffee etc. You can only give or sell alcoholic drinks with a proper three course meal (depending on if you have a licence to do so) so they won't be racking up a massive drinks bill. What they will do is buy their own 'booze' and drink it so there is no money in that for you. Our area has a lot of things to do but it's for adults which is why we don't accept children under 14. We did have a family stay once and it was nightmare. They had booked for two weeks and for the second week we found a place for them down on the coast with supervised activities for the kids because our place and the activities left the kids totally bored which in turn stressed the parents out, not much of a holiday for any of them. One way to give you a clue is to have look at other CDH's round your area and see what they are doing and how much they are charging.

With regards to them all staying in the same room. The normal answer is no they don't if they are traveling as couples. We also have a rafting business a few metres down the road and people who come to raft are mixed groups of young people and they don't mind sharing a room because it's cheaper but then they all want single beds. So if I were going to do something like that I would have, if I had the space, a zip and link main bed with one of the beds that Kitty mentioned that way you can still get four in a room. On the other hand if you don't have an activity like that near you then there is little or no point.

I have just had a look at the enquiries we had for the last 9 months and we had four that wanted a family room and the earning potential from these was just over a thousand Euros. That said they were all during the school holidays and we were already full. We did have one group for one night (German and Austrian motorcyclists touring France) but they were all couples so that was not a problem either.

Whenever we have had passing trade with babies they always have a traveling cot although we still won't take them. Actually young babies are another nightmare. People come to the countryside for peace and quiet. Unless you have added a load of sound insulation to your rooms a baby crying at one, two or three in the morning will wake up some or all your guests depending on your layout. Would you like to be woken up at that sort of hour by a crying baby on your holiday?

All this and other things as well are things your going to have to think about and research. You could try talking to your local tourist office they may be quite helpful. By the way you don't have to go through the mayor to register with them and get on their accommodation list, you just go and see them. Your be paying a bed tax to them anyway.

[Louise]

Thanks Quillan and I take on board what you have said....You have some very valid points. I have loads of ideas... I just havent finalised them in my head yet

Cycling is a big thing near us and our village is on one of the identified cycle routes. There is also canoeing on the river. We do have some nice man made beaches very close (10 mins away) so in the summer it could be a popular destination with familes..... We are not sure about the pool yet... that will be dependent on whether the house sticks to budget !! Its on the wish list but not the need list. We were thinking of tidying out the barn to provide facilities for cyclists. Fishing is another popular activity near us and you can actually fish on the river by us (although it is highly recommended for night carp fishing so that wouldnt work for us I guess unless we did breakfast and bed !!! [:D])

Will take a look again at the B&Bs nearest to us and see what kind of set up they have - twins / doubles / family rooms etc. When I say family room I dont necessarily mean it has to be for families it could be for groups. It just seems to big a room for a double... Unless we market it as a suite ???? Anyone tried that ? Just a thought

We popped to the tourist board last time we were there and they offered to come and have a look and have a chat with us so might take them up on that... when you say "bed tax" do you mean the holiday tax ? They told us we would need the declaration signed by the mairie before they would let us advertise. On the positive side they had already had 2 people in that day looking for places to stay that night so will definitly be a place for us to advertise.

Talking about sound proofing.... can anyone recommend anything - the proper acoustic stuff is really expensive and I am sure there must be cheaper options. We need to soundproof the attic floor and then also the party wall between two bedrooms.

[:)]

[Quillan]

It's a good idea to have ideas but they must be linked with your research. I always say do your research, then research it again and again before you make and decisions that involve spending money.

Here is a 'for example'. Do you fit baths? Well I can tell you, because I clean them, that whilst we have two rooms with baths (they have showers as well and we also have two rooms with just showers) that very few people use the baths. In fact if I knew then what I know now I would only have one room with a bath and then I would also use a bath suitable for a slightly disabled or infirm person. We already have one shower with a seat, I would replace the bath in one of the rooms with another shower with a seat. The shower with a seat is actually a hydro massage shower so it does not look 'odd' if you get my drift.

We also are on a cycling route both for mountain bikes and the Tour de France, it pass's the top of the road every two years. We offer a special package when it pass's and we are often fully booked nearly a year in advance for this event. You then get people who like to ride the same route so for a week or two before and after we get quite a few cyclists. In a none TdF year we get about a handful as these groups tend to go for hostel type accommodation, six or more to a room, very basic and cheap, they only stay one night.

We have fishing too. The river borders two sides of my land and has trout and salmon (plus a few other types of fish). In all our years we have only ever had two people stay for the fishing. The reason they don't stay with us is because you only have to walk 50 metres to the river. Imagine if you partner loved fishing, you would never go anywhere except sit in the garden while he fished, not much of a holiday for you. So these sort of people stay central within the fishing area but not by the river or lake because there is more chance that the wife/girlfriend gets to see and do some of things she want's instead of sitting by a river, bored out of their head, while their old man goes fishing. We have loads of lakes all with beach's plus we are an hour form the Mediterranean.

Had a pool, done that, even more work for very little money. A pool will burn up about an hour a day during the season. It varies from department to department but here you have to take chemical measurements every day and at the end of the month send them in to the local DDE office (not sure why it;'s the DDE but there you go).

I would without doubt take up the Tourist Office offer to come and visit, it's free after all and they should have a lot of tips for you. We get a questionnaire every year about how many people stay, what the breakdown of the guests are with regards to what they do and why they are in our region. Hopefully yours do the same so you can 'interrogate' them for as much information as you can get when they come and visit. Don't forget in France you have to ask, they won't just tell you and it's how you ask as well.

Taxe de Séjour is a local tax set by the Marie usually per head adults and there are variable according to status of rental ,hotel, gite, camping, or CDH. It varies from one commune to another. Some I believe still don't charge but that very rare these days.

Sound proofing. - Well people are coming to stay with you in your home, that's what CDH is all about. You are not creating a miniature hotel like you do in the UK, it's a different mentality here. So unless there is excessive noise from the rooms I wouldn't bother. If there is then you need to batten the walls both sides, add something like 'Rockwall' insulation and then plasterboard over (which reduces the size slightly of the room of course). Our rooms are separated by built in wardrobes, which were there before anyway. They are not 100% soundproof but given what I have already said about CDH they are pretty good.

Another tip (I really should start charging for this [;-)] ) is when you have finished each room sleep in it for a week before you let guests in. This allows you to find any niggling problems and you may discover something missing, needs to be moved or is not needed at all. We have slept in every room and in each one we have made some form of change.

Don't clutter rooms with 'nice' things, it adds to the cleaning, cleaning is time and time is money or worse still YOUR relaxation time which, believe me, will become as valuable in high season as gold.

[Kitty]

[quote user="Louise"]I like the idea of those... do you think they will be classed as "acceptable" if you were wanting to register for etoiles etc ? Are they the ones that go side by side when they are up - or those that are totally separate ?

Do you get many enquiries for people wanting more than a double room ? I heard (and apologise it wasnt me) that french guests will all stay in the same room....and will fit as many as they can it. If this is true - do they have more than one child in a bed ?

I was thinking of having a travel cot too that cold be used in any of the rooms - is that an idea or should it be a proper cot ?[/quote]

The beds (with a single underneath) are perfectly acceptable - my holiday house has four stars.   They are very sturdy but you do need to choose good quality ones.

I offer a proper cot and a good quality high chair and get lots of family bookings.

[Louise]

Thanks Quillan for your hints, tips and advice. I shall definitly take what you have said on board.

Thanks Kitty - where did you get yours from ? or do you have a link to a picture of one. That would be great if you have.

[:)]

[Quillan]

Places like Fly and BUT sell them here in France.

[Cendrillon]

I think Ikea also sells them

[Kitty]

[quote user="Louise"] Thanks Kitty - where did you get yours from ? or do you have a link to a picture of one. That would be great if you have.

[/quote]

I went for an independent retailer because I needed good quality.  I saw some in Dreams (in the UK), for instance, but discounted them as not being strong enough.  They are more expensive in France but if you buy in the UK, you have to think about van hire to get them there.

[Louise]

Thanks Kitty.

Luckily we have a big van at the moment so we have the option to bring things over from the UK. Obviously we have to weigh up the costs of petrol and lost days travelling against the cost savings but there are definitly some things that would be alot cheaper bringing them over. France is cheaper for some items though - sanitary ware etc is much cheaper than in the UK.

The Brico Depot catalogue seems to be my chosen reading material at the moment [:)]