Even I can get caught out.

[Quillan]

Had a (French) cheque returned today, insufficient funds in the account but I have a bad feeling if you know what I mean. Not a lot of money, only 70 Euros but then money is money as they say. Now I always write both the reservation number and invoice number on the back of the cheque just in case. This cheque was given to me when I had a four room changeover, everyone leaving at the same time and I didn't make time to write the numbers on the back. Now the even worse bit is that the name and address on the cheque does not match any of our guests. I didn't notice at the time, you normally just look to see if the amount and the 'Pay' name is correct. Well it just reminds me about complacency and letting things slide a little. Rest assured it won't happen again. Now I have to work out what to do and how the French banking system functions when this happens.

[Araucaria]

I hope they didn't leave with anything belonging to you, Q, as it sounds a bit like a stolen chequebook.

Couldn't you work out which guest it was by eliminating the other three who left at the same time? Or did they pay cash?

Bad luck, and a warning to us all.

[NormanH]

Surely you should take the Carte d'Identité number as well if you accept a cheque?

I believe that the holder of the account has  certain time to put the money in the bank or they become interdit bancaire

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1930.xhtml

Somebody bounced a cheque on me in January, and I thought that by simply

not re-presenting it I was avoiding pushing him deeper into trouble,

but in fact the bank completely blocked the account until I gave the

cheque back

(I am a soft MUG) and he was able to clear it with the bank.

but this  might not work if the chequebook had been stolen and the person has reported the theft.

[Alan Zoff]

A few years ago, I took delivery of a consignment of heating oil, the day before I was setting off for the UK. I gave the merchant a sizeable cheque, confident in the knowledge that my bank in England had 10 days earlier emailed me to confirm that they had dealt with my instruction to transfer more than enough funds to the French account.

As something of an afterthought, I called into the French branch the next morning to check my balance. There was hardly anything in the account! I phoned the bank in England who apologised but said they had sent the confirmation to me before processing the transfer - which they then forgot to do! It would now take at least 3 days to get the money into my account. All I could think of were the dire warnings I had been given about the consequences of issuing bouncing cheques in France.

The French branch staff were in fact very accommodating. They knew the payee - another customer - who had been in earlier with his cheques for banking, including mine that would send my account several hundred euros into the red. They simply rang him up and asked if he would mind if they sat on my cheque for a few days until the funds had arrived from England. Apparently, he wasn't at all bothered so that's what they did.

I can't imagine this happening in the UK. But I never found out what the "dire consequences" amounted to. (The UK bank gave me £50 compensation for the trouble caused.)

But as for your problem, Q, whoever issued the rubber cheque is surely liable, regardless of who stayed in your abode, and can be traced through your bank. Hopefully, they will be similarly concerned by the implications for them of not honouring the cheque. 

[Araucaria]

[quote user="Alan Zoff"] .... But as for your problem, Q, whoever issued the rubber cheque is surely liable, regardless of who stayed in your abode, and can be traced through your bank... [/quote]

Unless the cheque was stolen, of course: or is this yet another trap for the unwary? well, for the wary too, I suppose.

[Judith]

It seems that the problem of bad cheques in France is getting worse ... there are many supermarkets who will not now take them, and last week we ate as a group at a restaurant where we are known.... but still they would not take our cheques - having had so many bad ones, they no longer had a system for banking them, so no longer accepted them.  It wasn't a problem to us as we could use credit cards, but some of the people in the group had already left (leaving cheques) so we had to sub them until we see them again.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

The only reason cheques are still used in France as the minimum (free) bank account gives you a cheque book.

Here in Luxembourg, cheques are unheard of, and I think they are going the way of the west in the UK as well. I know, when I had a proper job 8 years ago, the company i worked for (very big 400plus shops) spent a lot of money on removing cheques from their business life. They are a lot of hassle for both the punters, the businesses and the banks.

Funnily enough, I wrote my first (UK) cheque the other day (to get my certifact of conformity for the car). I noticed the last cheque I wrote from the same cheque book was 2006! They will soon be history...for the rest of the world anyway, I could quite imagine france still using them into the next centuary

[idun]

I believe that we will always need cheques. They may rename them but in essence they will still be cheques as we know them. There are some circumstances when we need to pay and it is a good system, when it works.

It must be remembered that France was doing chip and pin years before the UK.

 

[idun]

Quillan, I would imagine that many of your guests have cars, maybe jotting the registration on the back of the cheque too would be a good idea. In fact, having them putting their registration in your register when they arrive?

 

[Www] Ofcourse you would need to know that in case the vehicule needed moving and you'd know what room it belonged to.

[andyh4]

[quote user="idun"]

I believe that we will always need cheques. They may rename them but in essence they will still be cheques as we know them. There are some circumstances when we need to pay and it is a good system, when it works.

[/quote]

 

I disagree Idun

 

I have lived in a cheque free society in Germany since 2003 when Eurocheques (the only cheque type that was ever available) was withdrawn.

Replacing this is bank to bank transfer (Überweisung or Virement).  I suppose you might consider that the Überweisung is just a renaming, but I believe the banking process behind it is rather different. For starters the full account details of both sender and recipient are present on the document.  How that fits with identity theft, I am not sure, but you will already be familiar with addresses being given on French cheques.

[Quillan]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I shall visit my bank today and have a word as I am a little unsure how, in France, you progress from here. It does say in the letter that came with the bounced cheque that I have to wait 30 days before re-presenting it.

Try as I can, even looking at the values of bookings past and future, I can't work out who it is but then at the end of the day that's not an issue if the cheque is finally paid.

With reference to cheques and their use in general. There are many small business that simply can't afford the high charges banks make for credit card machines and their use. Likewise you can't expect a person to transfer money as they are leaving. With transfers you are at the 'mercy' of the banks time wise. Some arrive the same day others can take up to five working days to arrive, all the time the money is of course deposited and making interest for the bank. So until banks charge the same rate for credit cards as they do to cash a cheque most people with small businesses will demand cash which is what I would do if cheques became redundant in France as would probably a lot of others in the same position.

[NormanH]

The procedure is here

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1537.xhtml

[Quillan]

Many thanks Norman. The name and address on the cheque is (using different names of course) Mr Bloggs Fred CHEZ Mr Jones Bert plus address which I think means they don't have an address of their own but are using somebody elses? If so the plot thickens although we have now found the name and address of the person who made the original group booking (three chaps in three rooms for the Tour de France) all working for Television Français(TF3 if I remember right)

[Babbles]

Bad luck Q, a reminder to us all . Its so time consuming sorting out these little glitches and doesn't put one in the most positive frame of mind.

[NormanH]

France Télévisions might be worth contacting.

They wouldn't want bad publicity over non-payment

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Quillan"]Many thanks Norman. The name and address on the cheque is (using different names of course) Mr Bloggs Fred CHEZ Mr Jones Bert plus address which I think means they don't have an address of their own but are using somebody elses? If so the plot thickens although we have now found the name and address of the person who made the original group booking (three chaps in three rooms for the Tour de France) all working for Television Français(TF3 if I remember right)[/quote]

Trying to be positive, could it be that the stay was the subject of an expenses claim and the money will appear in the account in due course ?

[Quillan]

[quote user="NormanH"]France Télévisions might be worth contacting.
They wouldn't want bad publicity over non-payment
[/quote]

The little bell has been tinkling away in the grey matter and I thought the same and have put it my 'top draw' just in case. I will have a chat with my bank manager first and then there is the matter of "Contract" with the person who actually made the reservation. As far as I am aware that is whom I have/had a "contract" with and not necessarily the person who paid individually for their room as it was a block booking under one name.

[Quillan]

Seen my bank manager, the procedure is exactly as per the link that Norman gave. Another point, which is as I suspected, is that legally the person who made the booking and who I communicated with and who paid the deposit is the ultimate person responsible for ensuring I get the money either from the person who wrote the cheque of they pay themselves. Now I have to craft a letter in my bestest French, should be an interesting read. [;-)]

[NormanH]

I am pretty sure that the account on which the cheque was supposed to be drawn is frozen at the moment, which might move things on, unless the cheque was a stolen one.