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Permis d'exploitation pour les loueurs de chambres d'hôtes


Nicola
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Has anyone undertaken this one day course recently? I would be grateful for some information on the course content, is there a test at the end?

Also, I find it impossible to find information on possibility of not serving wine with food - can the guest drink there own wine or is a licence obligatory

Many thanks

Nicola

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If they supply their own wine you don't need the licence. If you include wine or sell wine you need a licence. The course is more about control of the type of booze sold and your responsibility to your guests as to their well being. In other words if they get absolutely ratted and fall in your pool then it's down to you because the course will tell you to refuse them more booze before they get to that stage. Actually the course is pretty naff but your obliged to do it. There is no test at the end.

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Many thanks for your response Quillan - I have subsequently found a place running the course and gave them a ring. They said there was a test at the end but it was easy - I did ask if I had to serve wine or could the guest bring their own. This seemed to be a grey area and frowned upon - so, I think if you offer a meal you should be able to offer wine and therefore you have to do the course - as you say

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Nicola, ask your local tourist information office or any local chambres d'hôtes listing service if they have any recommendations for the one-day course. Around here, dependent on the organisation running the course, the cost varies from about 300 euros to 700 euros for the same certification so do your research before booking.

[quote user="Nicola"]I did ask if I had to serve wine or could the guest bring their own. This seemed to be a grey area and frowned upon

- so, I think if you offer a meal you should be able to offer wine and

therefore you have to do the course - as you say[/quote]

If you asked the company running the courses, they would frown upon someone finding a way of depriving them of their fee, wouldn't they? [:D]

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Thanks for advice Catalpa - the course I am thinking of cost 324€ so, although expensive, I think I should do it. Having thought about it I don't think you can really offer 'tables d'hotes' without offering wine. I can't imagine drinking a glass of wine with my meal and not offering any to my guests!
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[quote user="Loiseau"]Any B&B offernig table d'höte that I have ever stayed in has always included wine, and sometimes apero, in the cost of the meal.

Angela[/quote]

Don't know if it's common practice, but we've also been offered a digestif with the coffee but it's the one and only time we'd stayed at a chambres d'hote.  Mon dieu, how the meal went on for hours when all we wanted was to hit the sack!

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[quote user="mint"][quote user="Loiseau"]Any B&B offernig table d'höte that I have ever stayed in has always included wine, and sometimes apero, in the cost of the meal. Angela[/quote]

Don't know if it's common practice, but we've also been offered a digestif with the coffee but it's the one and only time we'd stayed at a chambres d'hote.  Mon dieu, how the meal went on for hours when all we wanted was to hit the sack!
[/quote]

Funny enough very few people have a coffee after dinner, well that’s my experience, we do offer a digestif though.

Problem with the rules on evening meals is we can't offer a menu. However if you tell the host before you arrive they can normally accommodate you. We have had guests that are quite happy with a main course and desert with just a glass of wine and it's not a problem normally. If your full of course life becomes more difficult because all of them have to agree and even more complicated if you have two couples half board and one wants the short menu. This is because you all have to sit at the same table. The only time we are allowed to give one couple something different to the rest is if they have a special dietary requirement.

 

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Is this french people lindal1000? I don't know any french vegetarians, vegans or gluten frees or lactose free or nut allergic people. The only allergy I know of is a child who is allergic to strawberries. I do know quite a lot of people.

Isn't as if the french people I know are not 'fussy', but it is usually about hot and spicy food, rather than the sort of food it is.

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[quote user="lindal1000"]Almost everyone seems to have specific dietary requirements these days Quillan. Vegan, veggie, gluten free, lactose free, nut free, allergic to ??? I would have thought it was possible to offer whatever you wanted to in most cases.[/quote]

Well now you can't, it has to be the same meal that your eating. Technically if one person is a vegetarian then you should really serve a vegetarian meal to all but the authorities turn a blind eye normally. The rules are..

Number of seats at table can be no more than the number of guests in residence plus the owners.

You are not allowed to offer a menu

It must be three proper courses (thats the rules serving wine more than anything).

You must all sit at the same table.

Any deviation from these and you are classed as a restaurant which requires all the relevent certificates plus a completely separate kitchen.

Same with the number of rooms and guests, five room and 15 guests, any more and you are a hotel and must supply all the normal hotel facilities.

The French hotels see Chambres D’hôte as a threat to them now (even though most of their problems are of their own making) and will go at any length to try and 'kill' them off if they don't meet the current legislation hence the recent inspections and the use of 'secret shoppers'. Personally I do everything correctly, declare the last cent on my tax form and I sleep very well at night. Others have not been so lucky, I know of one couple who were faced with so many fines they put the place on the market and did a 'runner' back to the UK. Of course what they don't understand is that when it's sold the notaire will subtract all the fines plus interest before he/she hands over what's left to them.

 

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[quote user="idun"]Is this french people lindal1000? I don't know any french vegetarians, vegans or gluten frees or lactose free or nut allergic people. The only allergy I know of is a child who is allergic to strawberries. I do know quite a lot of people.

Isn't as if the french people I know are not 'fussy', but it is usually about hot and spicy food, rather than the sort of food it is.
[/quote]

You must of led a sheltered life then. Two of my neighbours children are lactose intolerant and the supermarkets have sections of both Gluten (Sans Gluten) and Lactose Free. Nowhere near as big a selection as they have in the UK but LeClerc for instance does sell Sans Gluten bread. There are even special shops to buy all this stuff although most is imported.

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We don't run a chambres d'hote but some French friends near us are currently having to cater for their guests raw food diet! From a practical point of view I would think it would be crazy to have to cook seven different meals for guests even if you wanted to, but then whether anyone would really go round and check out whether the kids had beef burgers and chips rather than the same meal as the adults ? My friend who runs a vegan B&B in UK offers the same menu to everyone.. take it or leave it..3 courses and you pay the same whether you eat all 3 or just one course. Even when cooking for friends I usually find myself having to do two or three different versions of the same thing to cope with People's dietary whims.
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[quote user="lindal1000"]We don't run a chambres d'hote but some French friends near us are currently having to cater for their guests raw food diet! From a practical point of view I would think it would be crazy to have to cook seven different meals for guests even if you wanted to, but then whether anyone would really go round and check out whether the kids had beef burgers and chips rather than the same meal as the adults ? [/quote]

No doubt the guests of your French friends contacted them before making the reservation and asked if they could cope with their diet. My experience is that guests do ask before making the reservation or make the reservation on B&B only. As far as vegetarians are concerned there are some really nice recipes out there which you can cook for everyone and the meat eaters probably don't even know there is no meat in it.

[quote user="lindal1000"]My friend who runs a vegan B&B in UK offers the same menu to everyone.. take it or leave it..3 courses and you pay the same whether you eat all 3 or just one course. Even when cooking for friends I usually find myself having to do two or three different versions of the same thing to cope with People's dietary whims.[/quote]

Firstly the rules in the UK are quite different to France and I don't have a clue what they are so I can't possibly comment.

What you might consider to be "People's dietary whims" can have quite serious consequences for the individual concerned if the 'rules' are not kept to. My wife has recently, after a long illness and Gall Bladder removal has become lactose intolerant. I made some bread a few weeks back for her replacing butter with margarine. During the night she became very ill again and the doctor was called. Little did either of us know, we should have read the packet, that margarine contains a small amount of butter milk for taste and colour. Likewise a vegetarian who has been one for many years can become very ill if given meat. The reason for this is that the bacterium that normally breaks down meat is no longer in their body. When making food that contains no gluten special precautions have to be taken to ensure that the non gluten food does not come in to contact with food that has gluten in it. A very small (miniscule) amount of gluten can be dangerous and you must not have cross contamination. A friend of mine becomes dangerously ill if he comes in to contact will any form of alcohol. Somebody gave him a liquor chocolate once without thinking, my friend ended up in hospital for three days and nearly died. In short it is a very complicated subject, not to be taken lightly.

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Most of my french friends now have grandchildren and not one has allergies or intolerlances. And my son's friends have kids too. The only problem encountered recently was one little boy, who ended up being circumsized....... and that is it. Little chap's very happy he can pee as he wants now, and no pain.

I really do not know anyone french who won't eat an omnivore diet. I know plenty of people who have been ill and had all sorts of things wrong, including cancers and other horrible and serious things. I have had many people I know pass away too. I thought that my life in France was pretty normal really. But the dietary things, no, not encountered any of them. 

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I don't doubt that at all Quillan and I'm not making light of it..it's just that if you have to serve everyone the same meal in the evenings then how can you manage all the varying needs and when does it go from being a variation on the menu to being something completely different? Just one of those complicated laws in France that can be open to interpretation to some degree? As far as I know in UK there are no regulations with regard to the food you can serve as a B&B, although plenty with regard to alcohol. My friend limits the choice to keep it simple. She does not eat with her guests either. We stayed in one table d'hote where the owners were trying to loose weight, so although they sat with us they didn't eat any of the food, which was a bit off putting!

Idun, I live near a well known Buddhist monastery that has visitors from all over France and the rest of the world, so perhaps that's why I meet more French vegans and vegetarians down this way.
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[quote user="lindal1000"]I don't doubt that at all Quillan and I'm not making light of it..it's just that if you have to serve everyone the same meal in the evenings then how can you manage all the varying needs .......[/quote]

You don't, you give everyone the same. How would you know for instance if a sauce is made with cream or a lactose free equivalent, you wouldn't. The cream is to give substance; the taste comes from the other items in it. If I cooked pasta and used gluten free pasta you would not know. With vegetarians you can give them extra veg and no meat if there are others dinning. It is really not that hard and we have never had a complaint.

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[quote user="idun"]Most of my french friends now have grandchildren and not one has allergies or intolerlances. And my son's friends have kids too. The only problem encountered recently was one little boy, who ended up being circumsized....... and that is it. Little chap's very happy he can pee as he wants now, and no pain.

I really do not know anyone french who won't eat an omnivore diet. I know plenty of people who have been ill and had all sorts of things wrong, including cancers and other horrible and serious things. I have had many people I know pass away too. I thought that my life in France was pretty normal really. But the dietary things, no, not encountered any of them. 
[/quote]

Never came across an eating disorder that requires circumcision. [;-)]

I have no idea how many French are vegetarian but they do exist has I have come across one or two over the years. Vegan French vegetarians I must say I have not come up against.

People who suffer from problems with gluten or/and lactose (not uncommon for the two to be linked) don't exactly go around with signs round their neck or a flashing light on their head. Diabetes is quite common in France and you may know a few, likewise they need to tell you and that will probably only happen if food is involved. None of these are of course whimsical, trendy, things but actually medical conditions which might be why people don't tell others.

We have gone a long way from where the thread started from. [:D]

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No but the little lad's zizi problem, is the most important medical condition that has been mentioned to me.

As it happens, in France I used to feed from 40 to 60 on fairly regular basis. Not once did anyone say that they had 'special' needs.  I could have catered for them, but I didn't have to.

We had one diabetic friend, but they were not french. A french friend currently has to watch her diet as she is pre-diabetic, no idea how one describes being on the limit, but she is not diabetic.

In England, I know people with nut allergies, celiac, diabetics, asthmatics, irritable bowel syndrome and vegetarians. For me, it really is quite different.

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Hi Nicola

We haven't had to do any courses - is it something you want to do or have been forced to do.

We have never had any guests ask to bring their own wine - we always serve with the meal. Occasionally they will bring out a dessert wine or an apero to have and, because we are not selling it, then we think that is fine. If they brought wine into their bedrooms we would not stop them.

We would definitely not charge corkage.

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Hello Scooter

I don't particularly want to do the course but I understand it is obligatory now.  I understand the licences required and how you obtain them have changed in recent years so, if you have been operating for some time I don't think you need to do this course but, as Quillan suggests, you probably had some other licence when you started which is still valid.

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  • 9 months later...
Hello, we've had to follow the course, costs about €300. You do not have to include alcohol in the meal's price even though many do include drinks. We also cater for all dietary requirements and we quite often have to cook gluten free/lactose free/vegetarian meals. The worse we've had is a lady who asked us (no, requested) a vegan, salt/pepper free/, organic & fair trade AND fat free meal, and that without telling us ahead..

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