Carafe d'eau

[Loiseau]

Is a restaurant obliged to provide a carafe of tap water, if requested?

I stayed at a Logis hotel last weekend, ordered my meal (plus half a bottle of wine and an aperitif) in the restaurant, and asked for a carafe of water as well. The owner's wife refused, on the grounds that she didn't own a carafe...

Angela  [:@]

[Dick Smith]

I believe that water, bread and salt are obligatory and non-chargeable.

[Ron Avery]

Bread obligatory  and free, where?  Maccy Dee's  in Sutton????    .........  errmm don't think so some how.  When was the last time you got bread amd water provided for free at a French motorway cafe,  Dick?

However, any half decent eatery provides bread and will put a jug of water on the table, but its not free, its in the price..   It seems to me Madame was being difficult, perhaps because you were also ???

[opas]

We always ask for a Pot d'eau, some restos will provide this and others will shrug and bring a bottle of their most expensive, if they do that , I stop them before they open it and ask which others they have. Not seen my tap water added on the bill .

[Russethouse]

In the UK at least ,I think that eating establishments are obliged to provide tap water if you ask, although it might flumox the staff in the fast food outlets if you did !

I have never had any difficulty ordering tap water in France either.

[Dick Smith]

Sorry, Ron, I didn't post that just to give you a chance to practise your humour 'skills'. I read some years ago that an obscure part of the Code Napoleon was that the provision of condiments was obligatory. That's why I said "I believe" rather than "I am an opinionated know-it-all who makes sarcastic comments".

[Loiseau]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

...It seems to me Madame was being difficult, perhaps because you were also ???

[/quote]

Oh dear Ron, perhaps you *have* got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning!
I am the least "difficult" or confrontational of people. I sometimes think it's my biggest drawback.
I might have understood her reaction if I had ordered nothing "payant" in the way of booze. But I *had* ordered as much as I felt able to drink on my own (see above). And I did then meekly order a half-bottle of Evian, as she had refused me the carafe.
The half-bottle of wine I chose first turned out to not be available, so I had to choose something else which was more expensive. I made no fuss about that, nor about the fact that it didn't turn up till I was halfway through the starter. Nor that I was given the wrong pudding (a fact which I didn't realise till later in the evening when I was reflecting upon the meal and suddenly remembered that mine should have had a bit of flambéed banana with it).

Angela

PS  There was no salt and pepper on the table - but I didn't make a scene about that either...

[Just Katie]

Angela I really hope you did not meekly leave a tip!

[Loiseau]

Too bloody right, K!

I was there for two nights, and knew that the restaurant would be closed the second (Sunday) night. After the 8E50 breakfast (OK baguette, immangeable croissant, unidentifiable "industrial" jam, butter tainted with garlic, plus OJ out of the jar that the boss unscrewed in front of me), I checked whether I needed a key or a code to get in that evening and the owner told me no, but to be sure to take my room key with me when I went out.

So after a day of intensive visiting (I am researching for a guidebook), 200km on the road, and an evening drive back from a mediocre meal in a town 30km away I returned to find a note on my bedroom door saying they were sorry but they had mislaid their spare key to my room and so hadn't been able to do it.  I have to say that that was a pretty low point, coming back at 10pm to unmade bed, grubby washbasin etc. Had I been in a B&B (as I was for the next two nights) I would of course have made my own bed, but hey - this was a hotel, and supposed to be a bit of a treat!!

The guy apologised a bit as he unscrewed the jar of OJ next morning, but mainly grumbled about how hard the work is etc. I did say that it had been a real downer for me after such a heavy day but it was water off a duck's back.  Frankly I thought he should have tipped ME (i.e. knocked something off the bill), but no chance...

Angela

[Just Katie]

Don't you just hate it when that happens?

I love France but you can end up in some real ropey places.  Its the wall paper on the walls that kill me off.

[Christine Animal]

Are you going to put this one in your guide book Angela ? !   [:P]

 

[Blanche Neige]

Angela

I get the feeling that this hotel will not be "recommended" in your new guide book!

I would put them in the list of places to avoid.[:@]

[Christine Animal]

Snap !   Blanche Neige.

 

[Loiseau]

It's a pity, because it's a nice old house in its own grounds - although in an industrial town (which makes it all the more interesting) - and is very popular with Brits (6 out of 7 cars the first night) as it's less than an hour from the Channel ports. The dining room is very attractive, with panelled walls and good-quality pink table cloths.

I often find Logis disappointing, however. I think they were great 20 years ago, offering friendly welcome and traditional French food to Brits (and others) hungry for a taste of real France. But I have the impression that the owners have all grown older (like the ones in this case) and as well as having reached retirement age, and having to contend with the "35 heures" for their employees, they have often not changed the decor or menus for 30 years. This one had 3 "chimneys" (though only two official tourism stars, I notice).
Today's Chambres d'hote (GdF and Clevacances) are so good - and I imagine very carefully scrutinised for their grading - that they are usually streets ahead in comfort and for the enthusiasm of their owners.  I always choose ones that do evening meals, as I hate having to drive off somewhere else on my own after a heavy day. The 3-épis one I was in on Monday and Tuesday nights cost half the hotel price (and that was with two excellent 4-course evening meals taken, instead of one). I was astonished to find clean towels the second day, and that somebody had clearly decided that my own bed-making skills were not up to scratch and had carefully re-made it! Needless to say, the B&B price of 40E per night included breakfast that had top-quality cheese and dried ham, yoghurt, three home-made jams, croissant to die for and the local Picard speciality of "gateau battu". [:D]

Sadly, as my book is to be more "what to do" rather than "where to stay", I shan't have room in it to slag off this hotel - which I should love to do...

Angela

[TWINKLE]

[quote user="KatieKopyKat"]

Don't you just hate it when that happens?

I love France but you can end up in some real ropey places.  Its the wall paper on the walls that kill me off.

[/quote]

Don't you like my wallpaper?[:@]

[Just Katie]

Yes you've got that stuff right the way through Twinks.  Even on your doors so they just become invisible against the wall when you close them.

But I have just been in one argument about taste so I am not going to get into another.  Besides I have got to keep in with you now for my holiday.  Yippeeee.

 

[Miki]

[quote] Had I been in a B&B (as I was for the next two nights) I would of

course have made my own bed, but hey - this was a hotel, and supposed

to be a bit of a treat!![/quote]

No "of course made your own bed" here Angela,  all the beds are made every day,

unless the people have left clothers strewn all over the bed and floor

or if they are still in there after midday! And I believe several other

owners of B&B's on here do the same.

We ask for a pichet d'eau around these parts (although I am sure

anything containing the words eau should be sufficient [:)] ) and

never been refused ever.And if one take out the motorway, McDo

scenario, no resto has ever not given bread at the table either, we may

have had to ask though. Any half good restos will try to offer decent

bread (not the ever present, chunks from a baguette) in the way, the

same restos will offer a decent house wine, both can say a lot about a

place.!!

[Loiseau]

Ooooh well, I obviously haven't been staying in such exalted places as yours then, Miki!  (Just looked to see if you had a www about yours at the bottom of the post, but no...)

There was no misunderstanding about what I was after re the water.  I speak fluent French, and moreover was so incredulous that I stressed a second time that it was l'eau du robinet that I required.  And, like you, I have never been refused before. 
At lunchtime, if I know I am driving afterwards and have decided on no wine, I will order a Perrier rather than do the proprietor out of a proper drinks order. But here I had ordered a Martini, followed by a half-bottle of wine; I think she was incredibly rude not to provide even a glassful of tap water. 
(I had to smile when the patron unscrewed the bottles of breakfast OJ at my table; everywhere else I have ever been has had the presentation skills at least to decant the supermarket juice into a carafe . . . but as we know, here there was not a carafe to be had!)

The bread was OK in fact. Slices of baguette, but fresh and perfectly acceptable.  Now you mention it, I don't think there was a house wine on the list...

Angela

[Christine Animal]

Maybe this answers your question Angela, unless it has again been "modifié depuis..."       [geek]

http://www.lhotellerie.fr/Forum/General/Search/Moteur/Index2/2069_01.asp

 

 

[Miki]

Some restos will not state vin du Mason or vin du Patron etc etc or

words to the same effect but will just offer the cheapest as such. And

it is the wine they offer as such that should at least mirror the

establishment if any good but then we are going back to the old story

that many restos simply are not the food par excellence that many

believe abound here.

The URL given, as you too will know, does not recommend not

giving water to clients but simply appears to cover them from having to

offer water free to clients,  if that is their want. But as it continues to say, does

the resto think it worth the problems etc (commerce, losing return

clients) by not offering a carafe d'eau ?

I guess in the days gone by (and now in some places) water quality could be found to be

awful (and yes, I have had some of it offered up as well !) and the

resto was allowed to say Non!

I truly believe, like you and no doubt most of us, that finding a resto

that does not give water when asked, is a pretty rare occurence and

probably pretty negligible in the number one may find all over France

[Dick Smith]

I don't know the exact provenance of this information, but someone else agrees with me here - that unless stipulated as charged for on the menu (ie bottled water) restaurants must provide water (ie tap water) free of charge.

http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/three-rules-of-french-restaurants

This is from the French tourist board: "in restaurants, bread and carafes of water

are included in the price shown, as well as all service charges, even

if it is usual to leave a tip."

http://sg.franceguide.com/infospratiques/rubrique.asp?idinf=1192

[ali-cat]

I can't remember who said it to Mark, just before our trip over in March, but he was told a good restaurant will always provide water & bread.  I don't believe, however, that motorway cafes fall under the definition of "good restaurants", therefore, wouldn't expect it!!

[Miki]

Ali,

Most motorway places should have a cold tap somewhere visible. Bread is normally sold in little pains

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]Sorry, Ron, I didn't post that just to give you a chance to practise your humour 'skills'. I read some years ago that an obscure part of the Code Napoleon was that the provision of condiments was obligatory. That's why I said "I believe" rather than "I am an opinionated know-it-all who makes sarcastic comments".[/quote]

 No Dick you posted it beccause you are an opiniated know nothing who cannot help but make rude nasty comments, why don't you stay in the Lounge, you are appreciated there.

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Loiseau"][quote user="Ron Avery"]

...It seems to me Madame was being difficult, perhaps because you were also ???

[/quote]

Oh dear Ron, perhaps you *have* got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning!
I am the least "difficult" or confrontational of people. I sometimes think it's my biggest drawback.
I might have understood her reaction if I had ordered nothing "payant" in the way of booze. But I *had* ordered as much as I felt able to drink on my own (see above). And I did then meekly order a half-bottle of Evian, as she had refused me the carafe.
The half-bottle of wine I chose first turned out to not be available, so I had to choose something else which was more expensive. I made no fuss about that, nor about the fact that it didn't turn up till I was halfway through the starter. Nor that I was given the wrong pudding (a fact which I didn't realise till later in the evening when I was reflecting upon the meal and suddenly remembered that mine should have had a bit of flambéed banana with it).

Angela

PS  There was no salt and pepper on the table - but I didn't make a scene about that either...

[/quote]

No  accusation was inferred Angela, it was just a question. We have all met those waitresses/Landaladies who can take umbrage at the slightest thing,  more so in the UK than in France, and as suggested she may have just been difficult simply because you asked for a carafe instead of a pitcher or more likely if it was a franchised place, this was one of those places as are often found in the UK that like to sell fizzy or still water for £2.50 a time.