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No Going Back - Chaos at the Castle


Deby
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[quote]A couple of observations - with moderator hat off. The reason these TV programmes are made is, basically, entertainment. The Nigel and Nippy saga was the prime example of this; Nigel was indeed the p...[/quote]

"And 'Business is about sustainability ; I scoff when I hear about "renting out to people buying or moving into houses"'. Surely business is also about making the most of opportunities while they are there? Our own rental enterprise is based solely around house-hunters and those who have recently bought, and it exploits a niche market very nicely thank you. Should we not have embarked on it just because the supply of customers might diminish at some time? I think not. Of course, a big consideration is that we both have other jobs so the future doesn't depend on this single business."

And that's the different. This is what CdH and Gites are supposed to be ; an add on to your "other jobs". So if it does dry up it's not financial armageddon time.

So most of this down here doesn't apply to you. But how many people can get jobs in France - if your French is not good enough, you don't have specialist skills etc etc etc.

How many of the English "French Jobs" are tied to the same market (e.g. helping people to buy houses) ?

Sorry, but to me the whole thing looks like a classical pyramid system ; to "fund" the England->France thing there needs to be an ever increasing number of people considering/making the move ; and at some time the transfer will slow and stop.

If your B&B or Gite is your living or a substantial contribution to it it *is* important.

Of course you should target whatever market there is, and there will always be some househunters/renovaters *but* common sense would suggest that that drop off after a period of time.

CdH & Gites are primarily tourist driven ; and the market is saturated in most areas of France ; I think worst in the Dordogne (which in many ways is a prototype for much of the rest of the France market). I think the next area to go the same way will be Poitou-Charente (a personal view)

If you have a ten year loan to buy or renovate a property, and your business is servicing that loan, then it has to survive ten years.

No, if you rely on it for income and to pay the mortgage you should not "rely" on a stream that is potentially short term (what happens when the craze for French Home Buying & TV programmes wears off ?).

I think the B&B and so on who rely on this market are in trouble. If you can get these as extras, great. If your business would be currently unsustainable without them, time for a rethink.

Business is about "grabbing opportunities that are there". But you cannot finance the business on the "opportunity" being there for 20 years when it's something that is probably short term (without thinking about replacing it).

It's the difference between having the business anyway and saying "oh I can grab this extra market" and starting the business *based* on that market.

Look at the magazine shelves ; it is full of Housing/Living Abroad mags ; two years ago they mostly weren't there ; five years ago there probably weren't any at all ; three years in the future only the *strong* will survive (I'd vote for LF and FPN...)

The difference is, of course, that suppose LF goes to the wall (I hope it doesn't and don't think it will) the publishers can print something else. If a Gite/CdH goes to the wall..... probably not.

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[quote]I agree that the house-hunter market isn't one to depend on in the long term and even in the short term it can be quite fickle. However, it is definitely profitable. House hunters generally stay a goo...[/quote]

Yes, grab it while it is whizzing past, but it *is* whizzing past.

The problem is not advertising ; it is flooding.

However good your property is, if there are hundreds of people doing the exact same thing, unless you really stand out - and I mean really stand out, (like CatC doesn't, except by being on telly) then you can easily get lost in the masses of competing places.

FPN for example usually has pages and pages of small (2" x 1") ads in the back - all saying the *same* thing.

It may have been a "dreadful year" but it's not a blip ; it's a decline. I don't think it's a decline in overall numbers, but it is in terms of Gites/CdH.

There are so many of them (esp. the former) that there simply aren't enough people to fill them all up. (and, of course, many real Francophiles have bought their own place ). If you double the number of Gites then numbers may rise slightly (depressed prices) but they won't double.

I don't think they will do better. The TV will give them a blip, but not as big as they hoped (law of diminishing returns.....), but I got the impression that quite a lot of visitors were friends and contacts. Nothing wrong with that, but the long term sustainability comes from new people coming in.

It's also in Limousin ; don't have a go L fans, it's nice, but it's not Monte Carlo. It's neither "handy" like Brittany, Normandy, Loire are, nor is it "guaranteed wow holiday sunshine" (Med, Atlantic coast), nor popular (Alps, Dordogne), and it's a long way. (don't get me on relying on cheapo airlines.... anyone who does that needs a frontal lobotomy). And however nice the bedrooms are, it's not cheap.

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I think the problem with FPN advertising is that it isn't really where people look to find places to stay. We ran our ad in "the" issue to go for this year ie the one they hand out at the French property exhibition in London yet only received one booking from it; on the other hand we received almost a dozen separate booking from house-hunters over a three month period (not counting several who have enquired but have yet to come). They're definitely very profitable though and we ran up our little "how to" guide at www.mascamps.com/living/en.htm to see if we can't attract a few more that way.

The other problem is that once people actually need services like an electrician or whatever, they're none too likely to look in FPN for those services. It would never have occured to me to look for an electrician or plumber there. Whilst there may be loads of advertisements, France is really big so there's not much chance of there being an ad for a local electrician or whatever unless you live in one of the very popular "english" areas like Brittany, the Dordogne or perhaps the Cote d'Azur.

We know of a couple of people who seem to be in a similar situation re the friends & relatives visiting as the chaos people are. One of them managed to be completely full all summer and not one single paying guest!

I actually do believe that the chaos people are trying to make a real living at it. You can't really expect to be full up and have the bills fully covered the first year and, as they said, they expect to be struggling next year. We're running on a very similar timescale and reckon that it will be our third year before we get ourselves onto a trully firm financial footing.

 

Arnold & Wendy

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