Gite Advertising

[Daisy-May]

Hello,

Please could I ask you all a couple of questions.

Where is the best, most cost effective way to advertise your Gites??

And, is it normal for the advertising companies to take such a high percentage of the weekly rent??

My Belgian friend who runs a Gite just down the road is forking out 40% of his rent in advertising and they have only managed to get him 6/7 weeks worth of business this year. Would I be right in thinking that for that amount of cash he 'should' be beating customers away with a stick as there should be adverts everywhere for the house??

 

Cheers

Aaron

www.la-fromental.com

[Russethouse]

There has been quite a bit of discussion about this in the past so it may be worth going through some of the old posts.

You will find a wide range of opinion but I think 40% is exhorbitant.

[Eslier]

You will find that where you advertise is most dependant upon the market you are aiming at. What works for some people won't necessarily work for others.

We have three gites which we market towards the top end of the UK market. We advertise in Cheznous and The Lady and, together with repeat bookings, this has accounted for between 14, 20 & 22 weeks let per gite this year which I am quite happy with. (The one that is only 14 weeks is a huge place that sleeps 14 so I wouldn't expect to get as many weeks for that one.) Our outlay on advertising is around 5% of our income which is excellent, and even after adding other marketing costs such as the website, uk telephone number, brochures, etc. it is still only around 7%.

The cost of advertising is much more cost effective when you have a number of gites to let. With just one gite your costs will be much higher.

[mascamps.com]

If he's counting that 40% as a percentage of fixed charge adverts, he should move to commission based places where the max I've seen is 35% and even then 15% of that is paid to travel agents. Most commission based places are more like 10% to 15%.

What I'd be inclined to do is to do a whole lot more work on the website as the payback on that is a good deal better.

There's a growing band of contributors to this forum who are on www.ourgites.org (free), the gite counterpart to www.ourinns.org (free) which lists the places of nearly all of the regular contributors to the B&B forum.

 

Arnold

 

[valiantlad]

you could try www.getvillas.com  £60.00 for 12 months  - currently throwing in 3 months extra free! 

[Le martin-pêcheur]

Hi,

We found www.holidaylets.net and www.holidayhavens.co.uk to be superb value for money. Our first year and we filled 11 weeks between the two. Good intro offers from both at the time . 3 months free AND you have full editorial control and free updates to your advert. Worked for us...........

Bonne chance,

 

Tony and Sue www.flyfishinginfrance.com

 

[NomadFrances]

[quote]Hello, Please could I ask you all a couple of questions. Where is the best, most cost effective way to advertise your Gites?? And, is it normal for the advertising companies to take such a high per...[/quote]

We use Chez Nous and we have had an excellent year of bookings. It costs us about £1500 for 3 adverts, availability calenders, links to our website and extra pictures - a good deal. I am now keen to get into the Dutch and German markets and would welcome some suggestions for advertising in those places.

 

Having only just joined this forum I am so impressed by the wide range of topics - it is great.

[mascamps.com]

Chez Nous is incredibly variable in its usefullness. I had an ad with them last year: total response was five hits on our website, two enquiries and no bookings for a £700 outlay.

For some it works well, for others not at all. Snag is that you need to fork out a lot of money to find out which category you fall into.

For Dutch, German, Italian, UK and even French markets you can go with Petit Futé (aka BandB France among others). From memory it's about 450€ for three years (you can also pay about 200€ for one year).

It's too late for the 2006 print brochures; the advert needed to be with them by end of June.

One thing that I've noticed is that the French have been using the Internet a LOT more this year than last so I'm not sure that going after them in print will be as effective as it was in years gone by. Last year, we found that ALL the French booked by phone even if they'd originally looked us up online. This year we found that about 80% of those booking during the peak period had made their booking online and it appeared to be the first time that they'd ever used the Internet to buy anything.

 

Arnold

 

[Coco]

For some it works well, for others not at all. Snag is that you need to fork out a lot of money to find out which category you fall into.

You're right there Arnold, but then you have B&B and this chap's looking for gite advertising so it may work for him.  We used to use French Connections and filled our house (when it was a gite) both years that we used them.  However, the following year, when we had changed to B&B, we got one night's booking for our £120 outlay!!!  So although Chez Nous isn't very effective for us B&Bers it may be more successful for a gite - after all, it is a well-known name.

One thing that I've noticed is that the French have been using the Internet a LOT more this year than last so I'm not sure that going after them in print will be as effective as it was in years gone by. Last year, we found that ALL the French booked by phone even if they'd originally looked us up online. This year we found that about 80% of those booking during the peak period had made their booking online and it appeared to be the first time that they'd ever used the Internet to buy anything.

Couldn't agree more!  Last year I would say the ratio was 20/80 internet/phone enquiries but this year it has definitely swung to 80/20 internet/phone

 

[mascamps.com]

We've still got the gite, so we were advertising both. I think you're right about it being a total dead loss for B&B though as you're not the only one that's said that.

Having said that, I suspect that CN for gites is becoming a bit pot luck in terms of return simply because the guide is so big these days. I booked some gites through them years ago and even then, with a much smaller guide, I just gave up looking after the first couple of pages of ads and took the best that I'd seen up to that point. If most people do the same these days (and who has the time to hunt through so many ads for the "ideal" place?), the even larger guide must mean that those gites listed towards the end of their area don't have a look-in re bookings. Yes, I know, they have a website too but even then it's little better due to the sheer number of places that come up on a search.

I'd be interested in knowing if people that have been in CN for some years have noticed an overall reduction in the number of new guests that they get via them (assuming that they've run a similar ad each year). I've certainly noticed a big increase in the number of larger ads being placed and wonder if that's a side-effect of people having to pay more and more money to get a similar number of guests each successive year?

I ask this both out of curiosity of how well CN has been working for people but also to give us internet advertisers an idea of how things might pan out for us too. It seems to me that if you had a website with a similar number of ads as CN has (discounting CN's own site), you'd have similar problems in selling your place unless there was a much better way of picking out places from the hundreds that would come up for, say, Languedoc-Roussillon.

As it is, we're already starting to see a number of sites which list lots of places adding facilities like "premium listings" (in effect, the equivalent of a bigger CN ad). It's interesting that they don't bother to improve how places are listed but move directly to charging more (the "nearest town" on ourgites.org/ourinns.org is there so that I can list places more effectively when required).

 

Arnold

 

[nimportequoi]

Arnold,

I have chosen to opt out of Chez Nous and advertiese on a large variety of internet sites instead, some of which are Holiday-rentals.com, FC, holidaylets.nets, Abritel.fr and a couple of other French websites. I have received far more bookings and more importantly, out of Peak bookings from doing this, for about the same expense of one decent size CN ad. Therefore 100% of my bookings come from the internet. I think Chez Nous is too big and there is no way of refining your search except by area. My ad is still on their internet site, but this is not as good as others as there is no way owners can update their availability themselves, you have to phone them, so not really very practical!

[Maddie]

[quote]Arnold, I have chosen to opt out of Chez Nous and advertiese on a large variety of internet sites instead, some of which are Holiday-rentals.com, FC, holidaylets.nets, Abritel.fr and a couple of othe...[/quote]

CN has changed for 2006 - seems to be marginally cheaper but minimum ad size is a 1/4 page rather than 1/8.  That may have an impact on the size/number of properties featured in the 2006 brochure?

I've always been able to update my own availability on CN - never had to call them.

Out of season we've had lots of success with Living France magazine!

[mascamps.com]

I get a continual stream of off season bookings from our internet listings too. I'm far too stingy to pay much for them (I prefer commission based places) but you'd be able to scoop all the major ones for the prices of a £500-odd CN ad.

They let you update availability online now which is something but then the biggest problem is really the inability to narrow down your search.  So, I look at Languedoc-Roussillon and get 138 properties listed covering everything from mountain locations in the Pyrenees to med beaches as far east as Montpellier (if my geography is right!) and no way to select amongst them short of paging through the whole lot. Notably, it doesn't seem possible to do a google type search and bring up individual Chez Nous properties which is possible on the likes of Visit France - in effect, they have just put the book online.

Hadn't thought that LF mag would be much use to be honest (sorry guys!) but I'll have a think about it.

 

 

Arnold

 

[NomadFrances]

In defence of Chez Nous (and, no, I do not work for them!) the smallest ad is still 1/8 page but yes I agree it is expensive.

I am interested to hear that they are not good for B&B - is anyone out there registered with Gite de France and have they found it good?

 

 

[mascamps.com]

"Not good for B&B" doesn't really describe how bad they are. I've never heard of anyone in the B&B end of things who thought well of them (of course, I only found this out after parting with my £700).

I'm not in GdF but they are excellent from all accounts. They basically fill you up and everywhere else becomes an addon. One problem is that the prices you can charge for them are generally a good deal lower than with other places (the downside of the "filling up"). For instance, one poster had them in and they gave her a 2 epi rating which in turn meant that she would have had to drop her prices around 10€ a night (this was B&B but the price drop would apply to gites also). Net effect is that she's not going with them.

On the upside, one other poster has just signed up with GdF with a view to dropping his advertising budget by gradually dropping his other listings as they come up for renewal.

Overall, GdF are equally expensive as CN as far as I know but with the benefit that they appear to work for everyone.

 

Arnold

 

[Miki]

[quote]In defence of Chez Nous (and, no, I do not work for them!) the smallest ad is still 1/8 page but yes I agree it is expensive. I am interested to hear that they are not good for B&B - is anyone ou...[/quote]

Hi Nomad,

We have been with GdF for a while now and would not dream of leaving them, even though this years advertising will cost around 750 euros (5 rooms inc family suite).

No other CdH publicity to my mind, works better than them, they are the biggest by far and of course easily the market leader in France. Won't guarantee it will work for everyone but it sure does for us.

Where are you ?

We were with Chez Nous a long time ago with the gites and they worked great, in their defence, to make your advert pay, you must really force yourself to take at least a 1/4 page or more and have the best picture and text you can. Problem really is the number of gites you have (no good for B&B at all)to set against the costs involved in advertising. Doesn't seem dear set against 4 gites plus but for one or even two it is expensive but if it works, then.....

[Marie]

Last year we used Visit France, which produced the vast majority of our gite bookings, and French Connections, which produced hardly any.  We're keeping the VF ad, as that has been good value for money, but decided to try Chez Nous internet service this year, as our own bookings are all done via our own website.  I have to say, so far we are not impressed with CN - they took our payment in July, but have failed to contact us since.  My husband rang them today to find out what was happening, and it eventually transpired that they don't put the ad on the website until December!  What good is that when we are already getting bookings for next year?  The whole point of a website is that it is dynamic, not static, and can be changed at any time, unlike a paper brochure which takes much longer to produce and print. I also resent them helping themselves to our payment 6 months before they are going to produce the service we've paid for.  We've opted for the internet only service, as I too feel that the brochure has got far too weighty over the years, but at this rate we won't be continuing with them after this year. It seems they're more interested in taking money than providing a quality service.

Has anyone out there had any better experiences with CN?

 

Marie

[Roli]

Have any of you tried advertising with French sites? My friend is with GDF but this year found www.a-gites.com she has a very large gite (sleeps 10/12) not so easy to let. I know she was very pleased as she didn't place her ad until well into the summer and still got 4 bookings.

Oh and she paid 14 euros for the ad.

Roli

[mascamps.com]

The payment months in advance is basically a side-effect of their website effectively being their brochure transferred online (albeit with some extra places like yourself added). Because of that they continue to look for payment for the website on the schedule of a print publication and with similar deadlines.

I actually think that GdF have similar problems with their website (I don't think you can go on it separately from the book) in that it looks to me like they've just transferred their brochures onto the website with no great thought as to how people will find places. You get an equally large list to that of CN when you look up an area which, to my mind, is less helpful than it could be.

In my view, GdF works well for people essentially because a) the French use the brochures and b) those brochures are everywhere in France. CN work well for gites because their brochures are distributed equally widely in the UK and gites are booked in advance of going on holiday (unlike B&Bs usually).

Where both GdF and CN fall down, in my view, is that they are essentially aimed at people who would like a holiday "somewhere" in, say, the Languedoc but they don't cater for the growing band of people who would like a holiday in a specific place (eg near a Ryanair airport).

 

Arnold

 

[Maddie]

[quote]In defence of Chez Nous (and, no, I do not work for them!) the smallest ad is still 1/8 page but yes I agree it is expensive. I am interested to hear that they are not good for B&B - is anyone ou...[/quote]

In the litereature we had from Chez Nous 1/8 page was not mentioned at all, hence my comment.   We've had a lot of success with them but then we pay for a link to our own website and people who've booked have done so more because of our website and the pictures and information on there than the CN listing.  It may also be because we aren't in the Dordogne where there are millions of lisitings and a lot of competition! 

Interestingly, most if not all of our clients said they would not even bother to look at a listing in CN if there was not also a separate web presence with surprised us no end.  We're glad we bit the bullet, struggled like mad and created our own website!

LF has been excellent for out of season bookings - we've had bookings from them for February, March, April and September to December.  Far better value for money for an ad in 12 months' editions than anything else we've done!  Plus you can do a couple of changes to your ad through the year (ie we describe our location as Gascony for summer clients but Midi Pyrenees in winter for the potential skiers).  We were amazed and, no, we don't have any connection to them!   We shall be doing the same thing next year.

[NomadFrances]

I totally agree about having your own website. As I said, most of our bookings come through Chez Nous but they link on to our website and it works well. 1/8 page is the most I would advertise and over the next few years the trend towards internet advertising will increase dramatically and Chez Nous will probably have quite a problem. I have picked up all sorts of tips from this discussion and will be looking at loads of other sites on Monday.

How much is LF for 12 months. We are moving out to live full time in Normandy early in the new year and in addition to 5 houses in the Manche (a nightmare to run from the UK!) we are setting up a B&B as well. These will be our main source of income and it is all very scary! We have loads of ideas but would welcome thoughts and views from other people who have been there, done it and got the t-shirt!

 

[mascamps.com]

I'm not so sure that CN / GdF and similar will actually have a problem with the Internet once they bite the bullet and concentrate more on that side of things. They do have a massive list of places to work with and it's "just" (OK, a big "just") that they haven't bothered (yet) to properly index it.

will be looking at loads of other sites on Monday.

I'll be looking forward to your e-mail at ourinns/ourgites

We have loads of ideas but would welcome thoughts and views from other people who have been there, done it and got the t-shirt!

We were half thinking of printing Mas Camps t-shirts Seriously though... first thing is to get an 0871 number right now so that you don't need to change the number in your advertising after you move (a major, major headache!). Next is to change your e-mail from [email protected] to [email protected] (another headache). Those two nailed down saves a whole lot of hassle at the time of the move. If you had a good idea of when you were moving, I'd be inclined to start using that address now and have a redirection from your new address to the old UK one so when you do actually move, you just cancel that and you get your mail straight away rather than with a week or more of a delay. Last, but not least, don't try "tidying up" your finances by closing bank accounts, credit cards, etc. as you won't be able to reopen them from here later. A good thing to have is both a Nationwide account (current account ["flexaccount"] plus credit card) and a Citibank UK account (their Direct Current Account is best) as then you're set for free transfers to France from the UK as required (the Citibank account in combination with their Euro savings account can be used for [almost] free transfers 'tother way too).

On the running from here... it's best to get your advertising going well in advance of the move as it can often take a few months to kick in. Snag is that to do this you need to have a good idea of when you'll be here to take the people in.

As you'll be living on the money, it's best to point out to friends & family that you don't do free holidays to avoid any misunderstandings later. Depending on the mix of friends & family that you have (and you'll acquire a lot more when you're here), you could easily find yourself full with non-paying guests. Much better to say upfront what discounts you'll offer them. We have one friend with a gite who was totally full last summer but didn't have any "proper" guests at all! We are at the other extreme and have had about three weeks worth of friends over in about 18 months but at least it was three profitable weeks.

 

Arnold

 

[David & Janet]

I have just read through the answers posted to the question on advertising, and have found it very informative. We have just finished renovating our first 2 bed gite (one more to go) and are now ready to recieve guests.(We live on site too) As we had a few unexpected set backs cash flow is a little tight and we have opted to register with our local tourist information office. for 110Euros we are in the very glossy mag which is in the 4 local tourist offices from December, in the Valle de L'Isle ( Dordogne) and also we will be on their website in October. As we have no web page at the moment i felt this was a good deal. I have just printed the details of the ourgites website, mentioned in one of your answers, and will send our details asap. Thank you for the info on this site. I'm sure we are not the only ones out there that really cannot put up the large advertising costs. Hopefully we will be in a more secure situation next year and perhaps we will be able to afford them then, though if these two options + my flyers to everyone i can think of back in UK work, and we get the bookings, we may not need the big guys?

Janet

[mascamps.com]

Bit late to say now I suppose, but from our experience and what I've heard from others, the tourist office brochures are generally a dead loss as far as pulling in guests goes. We're in our local brochure which was free and not really worth paying for: total guests from it were 3 or 4 in about a year though to be fair, we did pick up a booking for a wedding reception via it which pulled in a few thousand euro.

A website isn't really essential to be honest. We're got one basically because I used to do them before we moved here but even with me, supposedly, knowing what I'm doing in terms of promoting it, we "only" get 20-30% of our bookings from it. If money is tight, I wouldn't want to be forking out 500€ or so for a site (I'm inclined to say forget about the 200€ sites) just yet although in our own case it has effectively bumped up our earnings by about 50%.

Watch the cost of the flyers and indeed all marketing costs. A rough rule of thumb in marketing is that you get about a 1% return so to get ONE booking from your flyers you need to send out, on average, ONE HUNDRED flyers. If you are posting them, you're probably paying about 2€ a throw by the time you count the cost of the flyer, envelope and stamp ie each booking you receive courtesy of the flyers is costing you 200€ to get it.

If money is tight, go for the free and commission based sites first. The commission based ones are effectively free until you get a booking and, to my mind, are much better than fixed fee sites as the interests of the site are more in line with your own ie no bookings, no fees, lots of bookings, lots of fees. OK, I have ended up paying over 1000€ for one commission based site but then that's 200 lots of 5€ commission so I can live with that.

 

Arnold

 

[mascamps.com]

I'd say that the reply immediately above this will be pulled as it's advertising so I'll add some more explanatory text to this to allow for that:

I think that you won't do as well with the holiday market simply because people don't, generally, look for quite so specific a place to stay in. OK, they'll want to stay in "southern France" but perhaps not necessarily Languedoc (even if they know that term).

Your offer is misleading in that TVA is added making it about 60€ rather than the 50€ you quoted.

Also, getting the next six months free isn't a proper offer as a) there's little booking activity over that time and b) you won't get much traffic over that period anyway as you won't have the base of entries necessary.

In that VF is much longer established and is only charging about 100€ per year (including their discount) I don't see why someone would pay your fee.

Finally, ourgites.org which is free all the time is already in the top 10 on a range of search engines so why pay at all?

 

Arnold