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Changes to micro-enterprise rules for furnished lettings?


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If I am reading it correctly, the French government budget for 2009 appears to propose changes to the micro-enterprise rules for furnished lettings. Page 2 of the document in this link:

http://www.budget.gouv.fr/presse/dossiers_de_presse/plf2009/dispositions_fiscales/location_meubles.pdf

states that from 2009 the micro-enterprise limits for furnished lettings will be those for "services" and not "sale of goods" as at present. The new limit on turnover is therefore €32,000 with an "abattement" of only 50%.

If correct, this would seem to have serious implications for any gite owners declaring income as a micro-enterprise.

Has anyone else read or heard anything about this proposal?

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That's how I read it.  But if you no longer qualify for the microbic régime, you just change to a réel simplifé régime, which as far as I'm concerned is much more favourable anyway (my expenses, plus depreciation etc. give me far more deductions than I'd get on the microbic régime).  You don't have to be registered with the ch de com to do this.

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'You just change to a réel simplifé régime, which as far as I'm concerned is much more favourable'  

My BOLD  nimportequoi - Together with nimportequois' direction + an unique blend of strategy, management and an accounting accountant you will be surprised - how much you will more 'in your pocket you will have.'

Apero

 

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Folks

 

Given the need for many of us (even as non-professional landlords) to move to the reel simplifie regime, does anyone know ...

 

Does one (in using réel regime simplifié) HAVE to secure the services of a business accountant ? Or would one be allowed to prepare one's own accounts, using one of the French business accounts software packages available ?

 

I've a suspicion that the answer to the above may be "no" - even as non-professional landlords, with réel simplifié regime one has to have business accounts prepared by a qualified professional - I've noted from www.impots.gouv.fr that early on the list of documents to be submitted for BICs is "votre attestation d'adhésion à un centre de gestion agréé"

 

In which case, presumably one could still save money by preparing draft accounts oneselves, for the qualified people to check and prepare the final ones …

 

Any information on above welcome !

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I'm sure an accountant can better advise, but I've always understood that the more work you do for them, the less you pay. I've been given quite a good rate by my accountant on the basis of recording all the expenses on a spreadsheet by month and putting them in order so they are easy to check against the bank statements.

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Yes but ...

A transcript of the parliamentary debate of the amendment is given on this site.

 I have copied the relevant text below:

"Mme Christine Lagarde, ministre de l'économie.

Monsieur Censi, l'amendement que vous proposez vise à maintenir, pour

l'application du régime des micro-entreprises, les activités de

location meublée parmi les activités de vente, ce qui leur permettrait

de relever du seuil de 80 000 euros et de bénéficier de l'abattement de

71 %. Vous craignez en effet que la mesure proposée, qui consiste à

faire relever ces activités du seuil de 32 000 euros et à les faire

bénéficier d'un abattement de 50 %, ne porte en particulier atteinte

aux activités d'accueil en milieu rural que sont les gîtes ruraux, les

meublés de tourisme classés et les chambres d'hôte ...

... Je

tiens à vous rassurer, les activités que vous citez ne seront pas

concernées pas cette réforme. En effet, dès lors que les contribuables

offrent des prestations annexes dans le cadre de ces activités,

celles-ci ne relèvent pas du régime de la location meublée, mais bien

de la para-hôtellerie. Ce secteur continuera donc à relever du

régime des bénéfices industriels et commerciaux dans les conditions de

droit commun, avec, pour l'application du régime des micro-entreprises,

un seuil de recettes de 80 000 euros et un abattement de 71 %...

... Si vous vous inquiétez pour l'ensemble des activités d'accueil en

milieu rural, je vous répète que les trois catégories que sont les

gîtes ruraux, les meublés de tourisme classés et les chambres d'hôtes

ne seront pas considérées comme des activités de location, mais de

para-hôtellerie. À ce titre, elles continueront à relever du régime des

bénéfices industriels et commerciaux dans les conditions de droit

commun et bénéficieront le cas échéant des dispositions du régime des

micro-entreprises.
"

My French is not perfect but the minister of finance seems to have given an undertaking that this will not affect gites, chambres d'hotes etc. The plot thickens!

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Yes, I've seen that - I posted it on another site, but it got deleted because of copyright reasons so I haven't bothered again. This avocat's blog is very useful for updates on this. The problem is that at the moment gites ruraux, chambre d'hôtes and classed tourist rentals (presumably G de F, Clévacances) will 'para hôtellerie' and no longer locations meublés. But at the moment they aren't. The plot indeed thickens!

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  • 2 weeks later...
The Senat voted yesterday to confirm the amendment to the new law that gites ruraux and chambres d'hôtes will now be considered as Parahôtellerie, with the micro régime level standing at 80k euros, which is good news. The only thing is that for the régime Parahôtellerie at the moment, there is an obligation to register at the Ch de Commerce.

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So where does that leave those of us who just declare under micro foncière scheme because our healthcare is covered elsewhere?  In my case OH works full time and CdH is my income but less than half our total income so this has worked with me, do not think registering at Ch de C would be financial good sense.  If they reduce the abbatement so much there reaches a point where it is hardly worth doing once CSG, tax and other charges have been paid. 

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I posted too soon this morning! I've just checked again, and the interpretation of the amendments to the law is that everything will continue before for the "meublés de tourisme", so you will be able to benefit from the microBIC régime of up to 80k euros revenue, with the abattement of 71%, no chambre de commerce registration required.

However, the grey area is what actually is the definition of "meublés de tourisme" and will all the tax offices interpret the law in the same way.

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  • 2 months later...
I received a letter from the local tax office last week regarding registering for the auto-entrepreneur regime which suggests completing registration before the end of March. This looks like a standard computer mass produced letter. I must admit I have had difficulty understanding all that was said in the letter.

Last year we put our Gite income down on the tax form but were told we would have to register as a business and obtain a SIRET number until we argued the point. Our income from the Gite is a minor part of our global income.

Has anyone else received such a letter and does anyone know if it is compulsory to register this year?

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Hello

I dont know about the letter but can say that in your case you can register and get a siret number but trade as a non professional micro which means you don't pay cotisations on the income just tax.  You can only do this when the gite income is not your main income and this would suit you from what you've said. 

Panda

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You may find this thread interesting.

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1576237/ShowPost.aspx

Its about the scheme in general but there are some references to Gites and CDH.

I recieved what sounds like the same letter a couple of days ago. It seems to me that if you have already registered with the Chamber of Commerce and gotten through the first couple of years then stay as you are. The major benifit of this new scheme is for those just starting up, they will not be hit with massive cotistations over the first two years, they just pay on two monthly basis based on actual income.

I hope I have understood this correctly from the above mentioned thread as I am just about to 'file' the letter.

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Now I am really confused.

We are Self Catering and are open only 5 months of the year , always declared gite income on form No/ 2042 CK in revenus  C1 Regime micro Enterprise  = vente de marchandise ou locations meublees non professionnelles in block that says NO ........    always below 5,000 Euro's  as its only for 2 people.

It says on 2007 tax form asessed Bic non prof regime micro.

Questions- Have we done everything correctly or should we be under another header as it is not our main income as we draw pension?

We pay social charges on unearned income.

Will we be being charged on gite income as well  I suppose is that normal?

We dont have a sarlet number nor are we registerd with anyone (only by tax).

Do we need to go to tax office and change to Gite rural so we dont lose our abattement of I think 71%  ( its going down to 50%) .?

Someone has pointed out Bic non Proff should not be written on our tax form!!  Totally confused with this standard letter that has gone out asking do we want to change regime. Milkey[8-)]

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