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Becoming Gite Owners!!


John
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Well I do seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest here dont I????  There seems to a lot of angst around this subject that has made me smile :-)

I respect the peoples opinions on this but there are not many from people ( there are some) who are actually running a gite complex.

There are two ends to the gite running spectrum that I have witnessed:

1 A complex where we have stayed in the Dordogne where with 4X2 bedroom gites the income ( before taxes and costs) is around £90K per annum.  This is not pie in the sky I have seen the books and bookings ( unfortunately this complex is not for sale) but we have become friends with the owners

2  A Gite complex that we went to look at near Sarlat where the owners just couldn't be bothered with both their complex and their guest ( again 4 gites) and used it as an opprtunity to earn a bit of extra money. The booking levels reflected their lack of interst in the business.

maybe the reason that there havent been a lot of responses from Gite complex owners ( as opposed to Gite owners) is that they are making a reasonable living and are happy thank you very much.

My research tells me that the potential is there if you run it as a professional well marketed business - time will tell.  Anyway back to my research but as always comments welcome!!!

 

 

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Go for it John - build it and they will come....although looks like you've already made your mind up on that one!

Professionalism above all, no shortcuts, no substitute for quality and a full understanding of what your true 'net' position is likely to be - especially at the earnings levels you have indicated above. You won't believe the number of people and organisations taking a cut!

Best of luck / Chiefluvvie
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Reality check:  If you wait long enough you'll always get the answer you want to hear regardless of whether it's valid or not.

The number of gite complexes on the market should tell you that in the current financial climate it just doesn't work; many of those people who bought several years ago when the exchange rate was much more favourable are struggling to make a living.

Many people, me for example, run individual gites as a sideline, and because I don't depend on the income I can afford to undercut other gites in the area, so single gite owners WILL affect your business. There are dozens of such properties around here. In our experience few people want to be on a complex and sharing the garden and pool with screaming kids (or just other people for that matter), and clients tell us that this is why they make return visits to us; they feel that they are getting an individual service.

Because this is not a full-time occupation we can spare more time and effort in getting it right, no pressure. Also, it's simplicity itself as far as officialdom is concerned, a small sum in taxe de sejour to submit at year-end, and a modest amount to declare on my following year's French tax return. I think you'll find that this is how the majority of gites are run.

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Dear Dear another one with an axe to grind.  Still if you are happy with your sideline then so be it.  My last word on the subject becasue frankly there is very little that is objective here.  I will continue my research and refining of the plan by talking to people that have made a succes of the concept and working my plan accordingly.

#

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'Simplicity itself' sid - that maybe (?) - however I think you've omitted a couple of things (or forgot to remove your rose tinted glasses)....remember John is talking about a gite complex with significant t/o.....

Let's see now - there's: registration (mairie / impots) TVA, CFE or Tax d'Hab, Tax Fonc, TV licence/s, Public Music Licence (if app) and, as for the income tax - certainly no small sum if your looking at earnings above 23.000€ (currently). Oh and then there's publicity / marketing / affiliations.........should I go on.....?

That's a reality check......but all 'dooable'.

Chiefluvvie
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Hang on, Chefluvvie, aren't you the one who can't wait to get away from France? That's hardly an encouragement for starters! To be honest I can't see which side of the fence you are on.

No rose-tinted specs here; I'm speaking from 8 year's experience!

I am trying to point out the difficulties for someone opening or wanting to run a complex of gites when faced with the competition from small "businesses" (hobbies really) who don't have the overheads, and for whom success is not a make-or-break, matter of life or death problem. It doesn't sound to me as though the OP has actually done his market research.

You've listed some other overheads; for me they're everyday minor expenses, and it's all legal. Registration is gratis, free and for nothing; just a matter of signing up at the local mairie. Insurance costs me 3€ per month on top of my buildings and contents insurance. Habitation and foncieres, well it's all part and parcel of the property we bought, and hundreds of people have the same sorts of outbuildings which they already pay for. TV licence! You think  people come here to watch TV?? I'm gobsmacked; why travel 750 miles to do something you can do at home? So it is simple for me, and I charge considerably less than the commercial enterprises simply because a large proportion is profit and I'm happy with it! I aim for 6 weeks a year, that's all, and usually get them filled, and with the proceeds I fill my oil tank. That's 6 weeks stolen from under the noses of my professional competitors. That's the reality, and there's loads of them doing exactly the same hereabouts. It's extremely good value in the current climate. If it ever gets tied-up with red tape or gets too difficlt I'll simply stop and have a further 6 weeks free for myself.

At other times of the year our little cottage is used gratis for friends and not least our visiting family.

There is a misconception about gites too, many people seem to think that what is expected is a luxury cottage with spacious gardens and a pool, when in fact the whole ethos of the gite system was for simple and basic accommodation. I hasten to add that we provide a well-equipped property, and hence the revisits. I've just taken a booking for one couple who will be here for their 4th year. They love the peace and quiet. you won't get that sharing a clump of buildings with 1,2 or heaven forbid, more other families.

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[quote user="sid"]

 TV licence! You think  people come here to watch TV?? I'm gobsmacked; why travel 750 miles to do something you can do at home? [/quote]

I do not think I am alone in watching a little TV when I am on holiday. It doesn't need to be British TV. I am quite happy to watch the local TV. And Yes I do do things on holiday that I can and do at home. TV is not my main preoccupation on holiday but it can be useful to get a local weather forecast or whatever.

Also if you want to attract French visitors to a French gite I would have thought that TV would be advantage

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Ah well, there's another thing, I don't advertise for French visitors! Does that make me the odd man out? Am I bovvered? Whatever, it works. When I started this sideline my French neighbour warned me that French people are not as respectful of property as some other nationals. That sounds like a sweeping statement but I've heeded it as she was speaking from experience. It's also much easier, language-wise, dealing with fellow-Brits.

Weather forecasts is a valid. I provide a printed forecast sheet on a daily basis in any case, as the Brits are obsessed with it. Installing TV would be difficult; the gite is away from our house and trees on the neighbouring property effectively mask the line of sight for a satellite dish. All in all, too much hassle especially as I get my bookings without it. Like I said, luxury cottages or simple gites??

I do offer internet access as I appreciate that people do like to keep in touch, but that was simple via CPL. 

There's no point in picking holes in my property (not that you've even seen it); you obviously wouldn't choose our gite, so no worries. The point of the thread is that there is loads of competition and I've seen so many people upping sticks and going back to UK during this last 12-months and these are people who didn't need to run a business just to survive. Gite complexes just don't make sense to me; better off at Center Parcs.

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I'm starting to become a bit peeved by this.  How do you know how much market research Ive done??  Ive done loads, with gite complex owners, with holiday makers right across the spectrum.  We have lived in France for 3 years- both speak excellent French and understand ( because we have done it before) all the implications of running a business in France.  we are aiming at a different level of client form the hobbyist and therefore belive we will be successful because we know how to set up and run a business. All i really wante d from this post was to elicit some comments from bona fide gite complex owners as to the state of the market, because I know it has been tough over the last few years.  To be honest all ive had is a lot of carping and now wish id never biohered.  There seems to be a section ( albeit small) of Brits who sit in France and carp on about how the exchange rate has gone down, their money doesnt go as far etc.....

The market is wide and varied from the hobbyists to the professionals - I know which end I'm going to be at

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John, to an extent you have answered your own question as you have said that you know it has been tough over the last few years.

I would not rely on your previous experience living in France, as taxes and cotisations are no doubt higher and the economic conditions a lot tougher than they were.

I am no expert but Sid's comments about hobbyists undercutting the professionals has a degree of logic to it, as if I was looking for an upmarket gite I would certainly prefer the former if it was a quality gite rather than being on a complex.

If you don't need to borrow money, go for it, but I would not risk getting in debt and putting your home on the line if things did not work out.

If you are looking at finance, borrowing money to purchase a gite in the current tight credit market might be your biggest challenge.
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[quote user="John"]

I'm starting to become a bit peeved by this.  How do you know how much market research Ive done??  Ive done loads, with gite complex owners, with holiday makers right across the spectrum.  We have lived in France for 3 years- both speak excellent French and understand ( because we have done it before) all the implications of running a business in France.  we are aiming at a different level of client form the hobbyist and therefore belive we will be successful because we know how to set up and run a business. All i really wante d from this post was to elicit some comments from bona fide gite complex owners as to the state of the market, because I know it has been tough over the last few years.  To be honest all ive had is a lot of carping and now wish id never biohered.  There seems to be a section ( albeit small) of Brits who sit in France and carp on about how the exchange rate has gone down, their money doesnt go as far etc.....

The market is wide and varied from the hobbyists to the professionals - I know which end I'm going to be at

[/quote]No need to get peeved John. The responses you have got here are pretty well parr for the course. While I am sure you have done your market researche about gites it seems you haven't researched the sort of responses you are liable to get on forums or you wouldn't be getting peeved. I don't get the impression there are a lot gite complex owners on this forum bur I haven't really researched this so I could be wrong.

Anyway, as a non-gite person, I wish you the best of luck and hope it works for you.

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Right last one - then I really will stop.  A sensible response thank you Sprogster.  Firstly there i s no way I would borrow money to do this - it will be a cash purchase and people seem to forget in the price we pay there is a home for us so it is not all investment - if we lived in the UK we would still have to buy a house to live in.  Secondly we are going after the family market where people with small children like us want to be with other people and are happy to be in a complex.  Believe me we have done extensive research on this model and whilst we know there is a lot of competition we know there is room for us and a market for us to go after.  The £90K per annum 4 gite complex was exactly this model and whilst I don't envisage getting to this level there is opportunity to earn a decent living despite all the gloom mongers [:)]
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Where is Dave-numbers (can't remember his numbers); he knows lots about running a gite complex, would be just the guy to have lots to say about it.

I am sure it's courses for horses when it comes to gites.

Me, I've only stayed at a gite twice and both times have been lovely.  One was a bit more upmarket, with pool, own terrace, bbq, etc but didn't bother us either way as it was off-season.

The other time, it was again a place with 4 gites and only one other was occupied so nothing doing there either.

I'm not a sociable person and I don't have young children so I would prefer to be in a gite that is comfortable but don't need pool, games, TV or anything like that.

We like to go out everyday when we have a break from home, explore nearby places of interest, eat in some restaurants and still do some home-cooking.

Sid, if you take dogs (and mine is very small and I do bring all my own covers for chairs, settees, etc and clean and tidy up before leaving), I'll come and stay like a shot [:D] 

 

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First of all, John – best of luck – bet you wish you never asked! Forgive me if I turn my attentions to gîte guru sid.

Now…on to you siddy – where to start? I tremble at the thought of challenging someone who has a whole 8 years of experience letting out part of his home - for 6 weeks a year. Crikey – that’s almost one whole year of letting – imagine that…

So glad to hear you are ‘legal’ – thanks for sharing that with us (?). Naturally it’s a lot easier to rent out part of your principal residence than it is to rent out independent units – no CFE for instance. What on earth you could possibly know about running a gîte complex beats me completely – smacks of comparing apples with pears. Please try and restrict your advice to the things you know about – there’s a good chap. Try and leave profit and loss accounts (gosh hope you know what that is?) to those in the know – those with a real business commitment.

Couple of points – you’d be hard pushed to rent gîtes to French customers without providing TV and Wifi these days - ahhh but you only rent out to Brits. I just wonder what comment you would make about Polish and French UK cottage home owners renting solely to their own countrymen and talking solely in their own language. Whilst it doesn’t make you the ‘odd man out’ – it does make you odd.

By endorsing the warning of your French neighbour stating that ‘French people are not as as respectful of property as some other nationals’ – you have clearly demonstrated your complete ignorance of the gîte industry – whilst insulting the French at the same time.

How lovely that you provide your guests with a weather forecast – I normally get one under my stateroom door on cruises. Sweet.

Anyway – all the very best for the coming season – you must be worn out just thinking about those 6 weeks of occupancy. Please do share any more tips for successful entrepreneurs just as soon as you think of them…..

About 31C with patchy cloud here tomorrow……

Chiefluvvie
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Completely innapropriate posting chief luvie . You may not agree with Sid, or feel that his advice was relevant but being personally rude is not necessary ...

There were positive ways to put your case and you are quite bright enough to give the benefit of your experience and advice without attempting to belittle a co member of the forum.
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I think that the OP was asking the equivalent of how long is a piece of string.

In the words of a wise former board member, whom I cannot quite quote literally, but it went rather like this, 'you can show a perspective buyer your books and how well you are doing, but it will be no guarantee that they will be capable of running the place up to the same standard or be able to make a success of it.

Re those that were not interested in running their gite complex, well, I reckon that some people imagine that it is 'easy' to run gites, and I don't think it is.

Research, what else is there? A target clientele, with the gites price/comfort just right for that target market and in the 'right' place. And that I would say was not easy to find. I find it hard enough to find a simple house to live in, never mind a home and a business to find. I don't see how anyone on here can really help that much. Everyone, as we have read, has their target market and way of looking at it, and some will have got it right and some will be middling and others will not be doing well, maybe they are not in the 'right' place, and/or are simply not very good at being gite hosts.

Being faché with posters because they have given their point of view seems rather unreasonable under the circumstances.

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[quote user="Sprogster"]Chiefluvie, I see from your tag that you have now finally left France and moved to Mauritius - Black River, so why so grumpy and seems a bit odd that you are still posting on the forum as I thought you did not like France?[/quote]

Hi Sprogster - not really relevant to this post however - I didn't realise there was a geographic limit to this forum. How are things in the Channel islands by the way?

You're right - I don't like France - but again, not relevant to this post!

Happy to be 'switched off' at any time.....but I'm sure you'd miss me :-)

Chiefluvvie
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[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]Happy to be 'switched off' at any time.....but I'm sure you'd miss me :-) Chiefluvvie[/quote]

Errr ............no.

I spent a second or two trying to imagine what you'd be like if I met you face-to-face: I spent a further nanosecond rejecting both the thought and the probable conclusion.

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[quote user="Chiefluvvie"][quote user="Sprogster"]Chiefluvie, I see from your tag that you have now finally left France and moved to Mauritius - Black River, so why so grumpy and seems a bit odd that you are still posting on the forum as I thought you did not like France?[/quote] Hi Sprogster - not really relevant to this post however - I didn't realise there was a geographic limit to this forum. How are things in the Channel islands by the way? You're right - I don't like France - but again, not relevant to this post! Happy to be 'switched off' at any time.....but I'm sure you'd miss me :-) Chiefluvvie[/quote] oooh throwing a tantrum are we[:D]
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