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Testing the water


arthur smith
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having been an avid consumer of advice on this and other forums for quite a while, and currently renovating in the Haute Vienne, can i ask the following?

we would love to make the move over permanently, but are too young to retire and don't have enough money to not have to work. i would like to register as an artisan wall and floor tiler / stud walling / decorator, and work legally. (i am always being told that there is plenty work available)

however, what is the general feeling about canvassing / advertising for work to see if there is enough to make a living  before taking the plunge ?

is there any foeseeable problem in advertising for / quoting for work several weeks/months ahead, to be started after the necessary registration has taken place ?

i would hope that this would be classed as 'researching the market' to be able to put together a business plan.

has anyone else done this ?  and if so, how succesful was it in helping a business start up ?

 

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[quote]having been an avid consumer of advice on this and other forums for quite a while, and currently renovating in the Haute Vienne, can i ask the following? we would love to make the move over permanent...[/quote]

In theory at least, you cannot "canvas" or advertise (or quote etc) before you are registered (I know, it's daft, but c'est France).

However, just put "Siret en cours" on your literature & noone will give a toss.....

 

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i know what you mean, but it's just a case of trying to be prepared. there are so many people saying that there's loads of work, but to increase my chances of success surely so long as i don't actually do any work, just take forward bookings, i would be okay.

i fully intend to work legally, can't be bothered looking behind me all the time, so i'm planning on calling this 'market research'.

and i can't believe that i'm the first to be thinking about doing this, there must be someonewho has started the same way.  

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Just before we moved here in the early nineties,my husband was going back and forth doing works on our house and had put our french phone number on his van as well as the english one as a bit of free publicity on both sides of the channel. We got pulled up at St.Malo and given a right telling off by the customs who then fetched the gendarmes who said we had no business putting a french phone number on an english van and asked for our papers which obviously we didn't have at that stage so they let us go with a warning not to do it again and remove the number. Luckily we moved shortly after but every arrival or departure during that short period was extremely nerve wracking. Just a warning what can happen as Nick said, this is France and no logic half the time.
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If you were starting a new business in the UK you would not expect to be up and running straight away, in fact if you were sensible you would not plan on making a realistic income for at least the first two or three years. The fact that you are moving somewhere where you have no business contacts, (probably) little knowledge of the local way of working and (possibly) limited language skills should only prolong that establishing period. If you have enough money to sustain you for at least two years then the money you make in that time will probably keep you in France for another year or two. By then you should have learned the language and gained enough local knowledge and contacts and, if you are good artisan, you will be starting to make a living by then but it will take that long, don't think otherwise. There is always a demand for good tradespeople in France but you need to be as well prepared as you would if you had just arrived in England as a foreigner .
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I assume you're not the comedian Arthur Smith then - if you are, take a leaf out of Eddie Izzard's book and learn French so you can do your act in French.

Seriously, I'd be lying if I said it was easy to register and trade legally in France, but it's not really as bad as some make out, so if you want to do it I am confident you will. Just make sure you are fully au fait with French building practices, I'm no builder but I think there are significant differences between the English and French ways of doing partitions, stud walls, plasterboarding etc. Also there are things you will need to know about how businesses are run in France, such as invoicing, estimates, TVA (i.e. VAT) etc, which you will learn as part of registering and should be told by the accountant that you will need to appoint.

As Nick says, there's no problem with advertising in advance of registering, as long as you remember the magic words 'Siret en cours' which prove you know something about the French system.

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appreciate the advice, and no i'm not the comedian one, helps to get tickets and seats in restaurants though.

i'm not expecting an easy ride, far from it, that's why i want to do as much preparation as possible. seen and read about poorly prepared people making the move without thinking about it too much. we will have a buffer when we come over, about 2 years worth, by then i would hope to be making a living, if not then i'm doing something wrong.

as for the language, night classes are making my french better. i spent 6 months living and working in paris when i was younger, so some things come back quicker than others.

liked the quote about preparing as hard as a foreigner coming into the uk, wish it was that easy going the other way, i'd only need a few words, 'asylum' , 'benefit' , etc. and just one phrase, 'which way is it to the dhss office'.

i haven't got rose tints on, but i do want make my chance of success as high as possible. not after making a fortune, just a living, but more importantly, having the time to enjoy it.

anyway, have you heard the one about the brit moving to france....

ps. how do you get the little smileys onto the message ?

 

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I think you probably know that when I said imagine if you were a foreigner coming to work in Britain I meant somebody who was intending to come and set up a business or work as a tradesperson who would need to learn the language with probably limited funds and even more limited local knowledge and contacts. Sadly, you decided to turn this around and have a predictable rant at 'asylum seekers' etc. I hope for your sake that the French people in your chosen area are more tolerant than you because there are plenty of British 'freeloaders' over here, believe me.
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oh dear

my comment was meant to highlight the difference between people passing each other in the channel, and the differing attitudes of the national governments involved.

some potential immigrants, going to night classes, researching information, learning about various tax regimes and what the social charges are, health care provision, ensuring that they have sufficient funds and a roof over their heads to manage until they, hopefully, start earning money, legally, and the others, well...

guess which is going which way ?

i find the french people in the area that i live very friendly, very patient, very tolerant, and very good neighbours.

funny that isn't it... 

ps. my rant, as you call it is not with the immigrants, but rather with a system that allows it carte blanche. 

 

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TU, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were right about the other AS, he was actually the uncle of one of our daughter's good friends at school so we know he is a very clever and able chap (probably runs in the family), as I am sure our AS is.

I think the comment about benefits was a bit unfortunate as it is a sensitive issue. It is right that there are some British freeloaders and black marketeers, but a bigger problem is that in some areas with a large number of British settlers, most of whom will be early retired or living off capital, the much less well off rural French see these foreigners who do not work and have no visible means of support, surrounded by the trappings of wealth, and assume they have come here to live off the state. It's a wrong assumption of course, but has some foundation in the fact that such people get access to the French health system without paying into it, as their low income (as opposed to actual assets) disqualifies them from contributing. The French hear all about the NHS bring in crisis with long waiting lists, no money, staff shortages and think that the wealthy British are here to enjoy better French conditions. It conveniently slips their minds of course that apart from the waiting lists the French system has exactly the same problems. But we're getting away from the topic, and going over subjects that have been discussed at length in more relevant parts of the forum.

There are benefits in France, but they are far from being universal handouts. As a general rule, although some British incomers have struck lucky, they seem to be available to those who intend to help themselves (by starting a viable business or otherwise being serious about getting work) and who have actually contributed financially to the French system, rather than anybody fresh off the boat and looking for freebies. So there's no harm in asking, but don't expect too much.

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will, i know that immigrants/asylum seekers have been done to death on other threads, so my post wasn't a dig at them.

rather it was to show what steps we are taking so that when we arrive 'off the boat' we hopefully won't be 'freeloaders', but able to earn a living and contribute to the society that we are entering.

most of the forward looking countries have a policy of ensuring that immigrants (asylum seekers are something else) have either a skill that they require, or the means to support themselves until they are able to support themselves and pay their dues.

we're just trying to cover all the angles to increase our chances of success, as the original post was all about.

 

 

 

 

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And my post wasn't in any way a dig at you or a suggestion that you intend to be a freeloader in France, rather the opposite. You have obviouly done and are doing your homework and are doing everything possible to become a responsible member of French society however it just got my goat a bit that you decided to take a swipe at such an obvious target. You should remember that the people you refer to are moving to Britain for the same reason you are moving to France i.e to improve their quality of life, and that the vast majority of them are honest, hardworking people who have every intention of becoming responsible citizens just like you. When my first son was born in a central London hospital there were eight people on duty - nurses, midwives, doctors etc, every single one of them an economic migrant and not an English born one amongst them. I myself am the son of an economic migrant as are millions of other 'British' people and in many cases these 'immigrants' gave up a great deal in order to give their families a chance of a better life.

Anyway that's MY rant over. I hope everything works out for your move and I'm sure it wil but please leave the stereotyping to the Daily Mail.
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